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Be careful what you post!


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Perhaps it would be seen as beneficial if DVLA/VOSA actually posted instead of lurking. I don't recall many posts beyond one persons initial intro here.

 

And if they worked WITH the historic vehicle movement - both Civil and Military - to ensure that it prospers rather than (as seems to be the case) appear to be hell bent on eradicating it, be it at their own behest or Brussels....

I think some people are getting a bit paranoid thinking everyone's out to get us.. has anyone every come across one statement stating that they want ex-military vehicles off the road??

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I think some people are getting a bit paranoid thinking everyone's out to get us.. has anyone every come across one statement stating that they want ex-military vehicles off the road??

 

There was talk fairly recently of the EEC wanting the rights that allow pre-1960 HGV's to be driven on a "B" license abolished. As usual - despite a search I can't find it. No doubt when looking for something else it will pop up!!

In the thread on the Stormers braking systems ("Latest DVLA Cr*p")the implication was VOSA/DVLA want all tracked ex-Military vehicles off the road regardless of whether they comply with regs or not.

 

Irrespective of how true or not these two scenarios are it would not have taken much for those members from these august (??) departments to have joined in the relevant threads either agreeing, disproving or adding guidance with the usual caveats on being down to the courts of law to adjudicate.

 

Just lurking, reading the posts and not joining in offering guidance where needed is not - to me at least - evidence of working WITH people to keep a hobby prospering, but in fact the exact opposite..... It would not take much effort on their part to change this negative impression to a positive one.......

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Irrespective of how true or not these two scenarios are it would not have taken much for those members from these august (??) departments to have joined in the relevant threads either agreeing, disproving or adding guidance with the usual caveats on being down to the courts of law to adjudicate.

 

 

There are hundreds of motoring forums out there Neil all discussing similar things whether it's an MV, Classic Car or Steam lorry etc. do you expect them to join every forum & reply to posts?

caveats on being down to the courts of law to adjudicate.

 

 

I think it would not be in anyones interest for them to come on here and give advice on something that may not stand up in court, at the end of the day it would just be their interpretation of the law.

 

As stated elsewhere if in doubt take proper legal advice.

 

Personally I think it's good that they are reading the forum's & taking note of what is being said, maybe they will recognise that most of us are responsible & want to use our vehicles legally

Just lurking, reading the posts and not joining in offering guidance where needed is not - to me at least - evidence of working WITH people to keep a hobby prospering, but in fact the exact opposite..... It would not take much effort on their part to change this negative impression to a positive one.......

 

The man from the DfT has been helpful & listened to us & promptly replied to all PM's sent to him, even giving permission to quote him on the forum.

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Personally I think it's good that they are reading the forum's & taking note of what is being said, maybe they will recognise that most of us are responsible & want to use our vehicles legally.

 

With that in mind could the "DVLA thread" be renamed to something more polite? As it stands it doesn't engender an atmosphere of dignity or co-operation.

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With that in mind could the "DVLA thread" be renamed to something more polite? As it stands it doesn't engender an atmosphere of dignity or co-operation.

Agree.. I'll pop over & change it.. the thread title will change but posts so far will retain the original title, I have no way of editing those on mass & don't fancy editing 141 individual posts..

Edited by Marmite!!
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Irrespective of how true or not these two scenarios are it would not have taken much for those members from these august (??) departments to have joined in the relevant threads either agreeing, disproving or adding guidance with the usual caveats on being down to the courts of law to adjudicate.

 

Just lurking, reading the posts and not joining in offering guidance where needed is not - to me at least - evidence of working WITH people to keep a hobby prospering, but in fact the exact opposite..... It would not take much effort on their part to change this negative impression to a positive one.......

 

But on what basis would they join in, as individuals or as "official" representatives of their department? Anyone who works for the government (or most companies) is very aware of the minefield that awaits those who express their personal opinions with a departmental label attached.

 

Andy

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It is my view that this hobby is weak and lacks leadership. Instead of bending over backwards and politely taking everything that is and will be thrown at it, it should be standing its ground and saying – actually this is what we do and WHY and this is how we are going to do it. We are proud of what we do.

 

 

From an outside point of view on a topic well discussed by us expats, is you are correct on that front. I often am flabbergasted by what gets accepted by the populace some times as there seems to be no concerted effort to point a point of view accross. Seen it discussed in here many times.

 

Surely it's not what you discuss - but the way you discuss it?

 

I think this is the ultimate post as sometimes people get a bit passionate about their subject material, whether it be DVLA or recoverys etc and start calling people to$$ers or idiots etc and this makes me cringe.

 

First of all that to$$er or idiot may be someones good friend or brother of another HMVF member so the vitriolic posts start.

 

Then bottom line in the legal sense and the proliference of legal suits calling someone a to$$er, idiot or in anyway demeaning them can be classed as defamation or slander

 

Sorry it kinda bugs me, thankfully most the postings in here are of a well spirited manner

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.......Then bottom line in the legal sense and the proliference of legal suits calling someone a to$$er, idiot or in anyway demeaning them can be classed as defamation or slander

 

Sorry it kinda bugs me, thankfully most the postings in here are of a well spirited manner

 

Can't be Slander on a message board, but can be libel. Slander is the spoken word, if it is on a message board it is written hence libel, but we know what you mean....

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I think this is the ultimate post as sometimes people get a bit passionate about their subject material, whether it be DVLA or recoverys etc and start calling people to$$ers or idiots etc and this makes me cringe.

 

Totally agree, this why today we have updated the forum rules & such posts will be removed without notice, repeat offenders may find it a bit difficult to access the forum.

 

If members come across a post which they find offensive then please use the report to moderator button & we will take the appropriate action.

 

Thank you.

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I think some people are getting a bit paranoid thinking everyone's out to get us.. has anyone every come across one statement stating that they want ex-military vehicles off the road??

 

So no goverment has put forward proposals to ban privatly held firearms. They just put so many rules and regulations you can't meet them all!

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Just read your rules update, now have a picture of a bascket weave human shape in my mind for some reason.:-D Found the ABC button, just can't work it! As for my comment, what I wanted to highlight is beware of apparently innocuous wording in legislation. For instance and on topic, how do you identify a Land Rover as 'military' for VOGEL? If it has a NATO hitch.

Hang on! My Discovery has a Dixon Bates tow plate. I have two attachments, one has a 50mm ball, one has a NATO hitch. So as I keep both on the vehicle, is it military or civillian? Disco's are used by the British military.

 

Surley this the sort of paradox we as owners and users are aware of, and can quite genuinley point out.

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Just read your rules update, now have a picture of a bascket weave human shape in my mind for some reason.:-D Found the ABC button, just can't work it! As for my comment, what I wanted to highlight is beware of apparently innocuous wording in legislation. For instance and on topic, how do you identify a Land Rover as 'military' for VOGEL? If it has a NATO hitch.

Hang on! My Discovery has a Dixon Bates tow plate. I have two attachments, one has a 50mm ball, one has a NATO hitch. So as I keep both on the vehicle, is it military or civillian? Disco's are used by the British military.

 

Surley this the sort of paradox we as owners and users are aware of, and can quite genuinley point out.

 

The subject of the thread is

Did you know, some folks probably do, that VOSA and the Department for Transport read this Forum and other vehicle related sites. Names, dates and details have been quoted by both agencies.

 

Not the specifics of any type of vehicle or specific bit of legislation.

Found the ABC button, just can't work it!

 

Hit it a bit harder..

 

Can we please get back ON Topic now..

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There are hundreds of motoring forums out there Neil all discussing similar things whether it's an MV, Classic Car or Steam lorry etc. do you expect them to join every forum & reply to posts?

 

If - as seems to implied by Fearless Leader - they are taking note of the posts people make and using them for their own ends then YES, I do. Common courtesy ( I know - somewhat lacking in the modern world) says that, if you are taking someones words potentially to beat someone else over the head with, you at least let the person/forum whose words you plan on using know this. Be it Gov't agencies, journalists, reporters - whoever.

 

I think it would not be in anyones interest for them to come on here and give advice on something that may not stand up in court, at the end of the day it would just be their interpretation of the law.

 

Virtually every official publication from VOSA ends in the caveat "subject to ratification by a court of law" - or words to that effect. How is it different then, for one of them to explain what is meant by the spirit of their wording???

 

As stated elsewhere if in doubt take proper legal advice.

 

Good advice - but how many people outside of the circle of those with dealing with either organization actually realize that what they say is NOT legally binding until a judge decides?? Most think (as I admit I used to) that these are the experts in their field and their word is law...

 

Personally I think it's good that they are reading the forum's & taking note of what is being said, maybe they will recognise that most of us are responsible & want to use our vehicles legally

 

Agreed - provided they are not just doing it for their own ends.

I'll happily put my hand up and say my dealings with either organization have been less than happy.

But I would be delighted if they were to show a helpful attitude on the forum and offer advice where appropriate - such as in licensing issues or MOT guidelines or whatever. Were this to be done, and with the caveat in the sig block that the advice was given freely without being a fact of law, all of us here would be sensible enough to treat it as intended - guidelines for further action and not a statement of fact..

 

The man from the DfT has been helpful & listened to us & promptly replied to all PM's sent to him, even giving permission to quote him on the forum.

 

Why not give him/them an area in the reference or legislation section where questions can be asked by those who have a need for guidance from the authorities???

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Point taken. But surley anything posted on here is copyright? Either of the forum owner or the person posting. Besides, what on earth are they trying to prove by riffiling other forums?

As you have just read the Forum Rules Tony you will be aware of our copyright policy, if they are using material off the forum for research purposes then no problem, similar policy on Government websites. If members are aware of anyone using any material off the forum & have proof please contact it & we will look into whether it is an infringement of our copyright. If you want to fully protect yourself then don't post.

 

Again lets get back on topic & not start discussing copyright, there's plenty of threads on this already, anyone with a problem with the rules or copyright them please PM.

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Part of the reason that these departments and other government departments visit this type and all sorts of other forums is research. Laws and rules are constantly being changed or having changes forced on us by Europe.

By reading forums they can get a feel for what people think and what groups maybe worth targeting for the purpose of consultation.

Many of these departments have to 'enforce' legislation that, they also have to interprit and in many cases is a series of cross references to multiple documents, with numerous loose leaf updates. When they do a full update it is normally to just one of the documents. In many cases there is no definitive answer written down in black and white.

But then with so many variations in vehicle types, uses and modifications available it is not possible to put it all down in simple black and white. However I do think that an Idiot's Guide or decent Guidance notes would help all parties.

 

It is not just vehicles that have these problems, come accross it all the time when trying to do details and design for highway works. You have the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges and its companion the Specification for Highway Works on top of which each Local Authority Highway Department has their own variation/interpritation. Sort of off topic but probably demonstrates a point (I hope)

 

Mike

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  • 2 months later...
Point taken. But surley anything posted on here is copyright? Either of the forum owner or the person posting. Besides, what on earth are they trying to prove by riffiling other forums?

 

Is a forum protected under copyright?

Its open for the whole world to see and use...only a question

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As usual it's up to the individual to determine whether they are breaking copyright law or not, if we (HMVF) have any doubts we will remove material until proved otherwise to protect HMVF from any possible legal action

 

Useful info here

 

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

 

Thread locked as this has been done to death over the last few years, PM if any other questions please

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