Saracen problems ~ Feeling quite depressed :(

[andyroo]

For the last two weeks, on and off I've been replacing the head gasket on my Saracen. All seemed to be going well.

Tuesday evening she ran up fine. Only it soon became evident that there was a leek somwhere as steam was coming from somwhere arround the inlet manifold. I decided it could be the O ring that was not sealing properly.

Today Chris (Sirh) came round and we did a cold pressure test. She has a cracked block

Soooo more work to be done. Will get the engine out during November and have a better look.

[AndyFowler]

Sorry to hear that mate ! Good luck with the rebuild !

[fv1609]

Yes very depressing Andy. The only consolation is that it has been identified out of season & allows a more measured repair to take place without any immediate show deadlines.

[FoolsHumor]

So would you expect you will be replacing the motor, replacing the block, attempt welding the dreaded cast , or some sort of overlapping threaded inserts? Whatever it is, I hope it goes well.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[Joris]

 

Good luck with that!

[oily]

so sorry to hear about your problem with the cracked block, in your saracen. I suppose now would be a good time to 'uprade', and slot in the more powerful, (and therefore more fuel-efficient, under-worked B81, from a Stalwart, -...also more plentiful than a B80.....):cool2:

[montie]

An ideal opportunity to do a fully illustrated chronicle of this event! :cool2::cool2: (For Justin

- just in case us other poor mortals need to go there too and for future reference!)

[andyroo]

so sorry to hear about your problem with the cracked block, in your saracen. I suppose now would be a good time to 'uprade', and slot in the more powerful, (and therefore more fuel-efficient, under-worked B81, from a Stalwart, -...also more plentiful than a B80.....):cool2:

 

Oily, the idea of putting a B81 in has already been discused with brother. I would prefere the correct engine though as it should be.

We'll see what turns up. Enquirys are being made.

 

Andy

[andyroo]

An ideal opportunity to do a fully illustrated chronicle of this event! :cool2::cool2: (For Justin

- just in case us other poor mortals need to go there too and for future reference!)

 

Montie,

 

I'll try. Problem is I get half way though doing an artical and get bord. I'm a practical hands on person. Writing is not my strong point. I'll try and take lots of photos though. Work will not start untill after bonfire night.

 

Andy

[andyroo]

February time we got the engine out and in my shed. After a closer look at the crack I decided that as the engine ran and pulled very well I would attempt a repair.

Spent an age searching motoring forums for information on repair methods.

Welding cast iron in my opinion is out. Metal stitching means stripping the engine down. In the end I went for cast-iron metal filler from Belzona 1111. I have not been able to find one bad comment about the product. (Well, only the price).

The photos should be self explanatory.

As of tonight, the engine is ready to be put back in. We are getting good at this, as this will be the third time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[haybaggerman]

Wow, good job, very interested to see how the repair lasts.

 

Thanks for the photos

 

Paul

[robin craig]

Dear Andrew,

 

never saw the original post but have just seen the pics uploaded today hence the late interjection.

 

Sorry to see your woes, is it too fresh to ask how she cracked in the first place? I'm thinking the anti-freeze mix was not right.

 

I have had spectacular success, despite the nay sayers, in welding cast engine blocks. Obviously there is a lot of stripping which you have avoided by going for a mechanical route.

 

Good luck mate

 

R

[oily]

....impressive work, Andy..... I've not yet seen an engine-out shot in close up... quite helpful... would you have a copy of the field repair/instructions for engine/fluid flywheel replacement, that you could post/copy for me, for some beer tokens?...._ as I have a lovely new flywheel to replace my nasty old leaky one....:-D

[oily]

....looks like lots of hard-to-reach bolts to undo.....:-(

[montie]

Hats off to you!!! I am in agreement with an interesting repair, let's hope it lasts!! Maybe expand on the unbolting procedure, please?

[haybaggerman]

You've gone and doen it now Andy........... you are becoming a guru!!!

[eddy8men]

clever, simple solution. just the way we like 'em and if it should weep a little remember the old reme motto "top up and motor on"

 

eddy

[montie]

Eddy, not wanting to be a wise guy, I guess it ties in with the saying "don't fix it if it aint broke". In this case it is probably disaster waiting to happen if it wept again and just topping up. I always heard about 'Blocks leak' and suchlike, adding it to the coolant and then it would "seal the leak". Although the thought came up about using such stuff in this case rather than removing the engine, I have never trusted the stuff!

 

At the end of the day, this fix would probably last a lot longer if not for keeps. Stopdrilling the crack reminded me of my aircraft days, though!

[Zero-Five-Two]

Repair looks seriously good, hope it works

[andyroo]

Dear Andrew,

 

never saw the original post but have just seen the pics uploaded today hence the late interjection.

 

Sorry to see your woes, is it too fresh to ask how she cracked in the first place? I'm thinking the anti-freeze mix was not right.

 

I have had spectacular success, despite the nay sayers, in welding cast engine blocks. Obviously there is a lot of stripping which you have avoided by going for a mechanical route.

 

Good luck mate

 

R

 

Thanks, luck is alway is short supply.

It all started a long time ago. 2 studs that hold the exhuste manifold on broke due to age and rust. Simple job, remove maniflod, remove studs and replace. However, removing the manifold broke a few more studs. So I made up a drilling jig and set too drilling to broken studs out (I think 7 in total). This is not easy with the engine in the engine bay. I got a few holes in the wrong place. Carl and I wipped the engine out and I finished the job of. Whail it was out we did the exhuste tappits as its much easier. I had to use thread inserts for a few of the studs. Also, I replaced all the studs with stainless ones. Engine was duly refitted and without realy testing it we set of to Cromford Steam fair. Just got onto the A38 and she boiled over. Managed to get of at the next exit and had my brother tow it with the Saladin.

The exhuste studs all thread into the water jacket. Coolent had leaked along the threads. Took some figering out that that was the problem, made worse because of the wire inserts. Got arround the problem by makeing sholderd studs and counterboring the exhuste manifold to take the sholder. Also coverd the studs with Foliac Maganeze.

Test run seemed to confirm that all was OK. Then came winter and I'd compleatly forgot with filling and emptying the coolent system so many times to put in any antifreeze. Hense cracked block.

[andyroo]

Wow, good job, very interested to see how the repair lasts.

 

Thanks for the photos

 

Paul

 

I hope the repair lasts for ever. She has done less that 10 miles since the last time the engine was out. See post above.

[andyroo]

....impressive work, Andy..... I've not yet seen an engine-out shot in close up... quite helpful... would you have a copy of the field repair/instructions for engine/fluid flywheel replacement, that you could post/copy for me, for some beer tokens?...._ as I have a lovely new flywheel to replace my nasty old leaky one....:-D

 

Thanks for the comment Oily. I dont have any EMER's at all. Just trial and error. However being mechanicly minded helps. And some very good friends

 

Will try to explain flywheel in your thread Oily.

[andyroo]

Hats off to you!!! I am in agreement with an interesting repair, let's hope it lasts!! Maybe expand on the unbolting procedure, please?

 

Montie, The worst bolts to undo are the 4 bottom ones on the bell housing. You accsess them from under the vhiecal though the rectagular holes. You can get 1 hand in and a spanner - thats it. You cannot see what your doing, its all done by feel. You will most likely need two spanners though to undo the nuts and hold the bolt head.

The next one is the outlet pipe from the oil tank. Best done with an open ended ratchet spanner.

Then you need to undo the 4 bolts on the left hand side of the engine mount. Two under the hydrolic pump, two under the generator. I had to disconect the oil return pipe on the geny to get at one of the bolts. Small child required here as small hands are very usefull. Remove oil pipes going to oil filter, cover holes to stop stray bolts/washers/small parts falling in. You can just and I mean just remove the pannel that the steering collum is supported on. Steering collum dose NOT need removing.

Before you get to the engine though, you need to remove the battery tray, radio tray and the two pannels where the peddles are. The bar that supports the engine covers and electrics (lable up the wires) need also be removed.

I use a hand winch to lift the engine for one good reason. If it wont lift, something is holding it, stop and investigate. A fork lift or powerd winch will have your engine out in no time, together with broken fule pipe or wiring loom!!

 

Whail your at it, take lots of photos. No one seems to have picked up on my 'deliberate' mistake

[montie]

Montie, The worst bolts to undo are the 4 bottom ones on the bell housing. You accsess them from under the vhiecal though the rectagular holes. You can get 1 hand in and a spanner - thats it. You cannot see what your doing, its all done by feel. You will most likely need two spanners though to undo the nuts and hold the bolt head.

The next one is the outlet pipe from the oil tank. Best done with an open ended ratchet spanner.

Then you need to undo the 4 bolts on the left hand side of the engine mount. Two under the hydrolic pump, two under the generator. I had to disconect the oil return pipe on the geny to get at one of the bolts. Small child required here as small hands are very usefull. Remove oil pipes going to oil filter, cover holes to stop stray bolts/washers/small parts falling in. You can just and I mean just remove the pannel that the steering collum is supported on. Steering collum dose NOT need removing.

Before you get to the engine though, you need to remove the battery tray, radio tray and the two pannels where the peddles are. The bar that supports the engine covers and electrics (lable up the wires) need also be removed.

I use a hand winch to lift the engine for one good reason. If it wont lift, something is holding it, stop and investigate. A fork lift or powerd winch will have your engine out in no time, together with broken fule pipe or wiring loom!!

 

Whail your at it, take lots of photos. No one seems to have picked up on my 'deliberate' mistake

 

Thanks Andy, I am reading this in awe, I am really impressed, thinking how long it must have taken figuring this all out and getting to all the hidden bolts. Go man, go!

[haybaggerman]

Hi Andy

 

Didnt spot a deliberate mistake, apart from photos slightly out of order maybe.

 

BTW, Devon is a lovely place to live, fancy moving in next door