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MoD cuts


timbo
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Ignoring the wisdom or otherwise of these cuts (no politics please !) I read somewhere that vehicle numbers may be reduced by 40% from current. On this basis I'll be watching the Withams tenders most closely for the following:

 

Warrior

Chally 2

Foden DROPs (yes I know some already out)

MRLS

Wolf

 

What would your choices be...?

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I think what you see for disposal is only the tip of the iceberg, I think there are plenty of ABRO refurbed vehicles lurking in storage such as Stormer and K60 powered 432s.

 

These will be good value for money purchases as complete tidy on the button vehicles if people can afford them.

 

R

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I read today that the army was going to cut 100 tanks. Based on the number of 432's which have already or are shortly coming out of Witham's I think they should make that target without too much difficulty !

 

I'd take Ark Royal and a squadron of Harriers off their hands but I live in Huddersfield for crying out loud..

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yes they are still running them,...and they have done some interesting upgrades as well...the GR.10's are a special airplane...it sure will be a shame to see them go after 30 years of development. they are still one tough bird to kick out of the sky and can still perform manoeuvres that no other plane can

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yes they are still running them,...and they have done some interesting upgrades as well...the GR.10's are a special airplane...it sure will be a shame to see them go after 30 years of development. they are still one tough bird to kick out of the sky and can still perform manoeuvres that no other plane can

 

I seem to recall one of the main tricks in the Falklands was to get the Mirage behind, then kick the vectored thrust nozzles forwards instantly losing speed so the Mirage shoots past and becomes an easy target. This was not a new principle - I'm sure I've read reports of WW2 pilots dumping flaps, gear and everything else they could think of so that the pursuing FW190 would go shooting past.

 

I do wonder whether some of this advantage hasn't been lost due to the extreme manoueverability of modern air superiority fighters, Typhoon etc.. Still the only thing that can land in a forest clearing though (apart from that Russina thing that was a copy)...

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I suspect the "strategic decision" regarding the new carriers would have looked somewhat different if BAES hadn't been so crafty with the cancellation clauses in the contract! :cool2:

 

Andy

I think you will find in most contracts there will be this clause included MOD or Civiain ones, so BAE have not been crafty. If you think what the costs would be involed in building a new carrier that would be payed out up front to sub contarcters ect, you would make sure you would cover the costs involed if cancled.

Al

Yes I would agree it would have looked different if it was canciled just look at what has happened to the nimrod we now have lost that, we will after reliey on other nations to protect us but at what costs?

Edited by Big Al
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Binning the Harriers doesn't sound too clever to me, or was it just a way of making sure that the carriers weren't of much use and so could be got rid of?

Sending the Tornados on their way would have been better, since it looks like dangling bombs over the Typhoon will be happening. Perhaps that would be too upsetting to our European partners?

The cost control of the procurement proceedure looks to be non-existant, the Nimrod following it's AWACs version into the bin, after £billions being spent again.

Have to go begging to the Yanks for a few second hand Rivet Joints (Ooops, I see that's old news! http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/03/22/339763/uk-approves-rivet-joint-purchase.html) (I was wondering what that "KC135" without its flying boom was, when it trundled over me last week, heading towards Waddington - buit it didn't look like it had the necessary lumps & bumps to be sig int)

Junking a lot of Challengers and the heavy artillery makes sense, should have been done years ago, ditto pulling our forces out of Germany.

I wonder if all this "excess stock" will be melted down or sold to some deserving African dictator?

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Ignoring the wisdom or otherwise of these cuts (no politics please !) I read somewhere that vehicle numbers may be reduced by 40% from current. On this basis I'll be watching the Withams tenders most closely for the following:

 

Warrior

Chally 2

Foden DROPs (yes I know some already out)

MRLS

Wolf

 

What would your choices be...?

 

There is a fair chance that the C2s and AS90s will end up in the fancy storage facility at Ashchurch, a "shrink-wrapped" MBT is a sight to behold!

 

What is mildly annoying is that the P1154 (the proposed supersonic Harrier) was cancelled along with the TSR2. If we had developed that we probably would not be buying the JSF!

 

jch

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I doubt if any Challenger 2 will come out because even if they are not going to put them in storage, they will be a cheap source of spares for those remaining.

 

Presumably very few are actually now with units, most being in storage.

 

From memory they re-engined the best part of 1000 FV432. What possible use could there have been for that number even before the cuts. These will start coming out in unissued condition. I wonder if people will be able to licence them for the road.

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From memory they re-engined the best part of 1000 FV432. What possible use could there have been for that number even before the cuts. These will start coming out in unissued condition. I wonder if people will be able to licence them for the road.

 

Withams have has several FV432s in unissued condition, no Mk 3s though... and no, they won't let you drive them on the road :cry:

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Whilst Para 2.A.8 talks about reducing Challenger 2s and AS90s, I can't see anything in the SDSR that suggests a decrease in the numbers of FV432s other than overall troop reductions. In fact they're probably needed as a stopgap until FRES (UV) comes along.

 

Andy

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Binning the Harriers doesn't sound too clever to me, or was it just a way of making sure that the carriers weren't of much use and so could be got rid of?

Not sure what you mean by this, they're keeping both carriers!

 

One is going to be converted to launch F-35Cs with catapults (possibly the nifty American electromagnetic ones) and the other they haven't said yet but may well end up covered in helicopters and Marines, and minus the ski jump. The cost saving on buying F-35C instead of F-35B will be pretty significant on its own - not to mention the operational benefits in carrying more fuel / stores etc with the loss of the VTOL units' weight. I'd wager they can land without dropping all their unused missiles overboard too, unlike certain jump-jets beginning with H :cool2:

 

The biggest mistake in the carrier design IMO was not making them nuclear - then they would have oodles of power for exciting new electronic kit (anyone fancy an ABL-class megawatt laser as deck armament?) and all the steam for catapults they wanted. As it is they'll have to spend half the time refuelling while Aldermaston continues to draw up on-paper designs for kit they'll never be allowed to build :mad:

 

Canning Nimrod seemed pretty inevitable really - the damn thing just refused to die. How many billions had they wasted already?

 

Stone

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The CVFs were always designed with conventional aircraft in mind, that's why they're as big as they are. The ship size is determined by the length of flight deck, which in turn is determined by simple schoolboy mathematics given a known takeoff speed and the maximum force you can apply to the airframe without it breaking. The carriers are currently fitted "for but not with" catapults and arrester gear. It would seem rather retrograde in an All-Electric Ship to fit boilers to generate steam for conventional catapults, but will MOD take the risk to go for electric catapults? There's already a UK electric catapult under development, by the way, so we don't need to buy American: http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jni/jni100726_1_n.shtml

 

Andy

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