question Clansman Set-up and Ferret Radio Tray

[simondawson]

Good morning all,

 

Has anyone experiance of fitting a Clansman Set-up in Ferret's? I have a working 353 and 321 along with all connections etc and am slightly bemused as to how the tail from the arial base mount fits to the tuam. The tail is standard multi strand wire (not coax) so im not sure how it terminates at the tuam as all the ports are of the coax type?(except the earth) Also, how do the other ariel mounts (the ones with the screw down knurled caps) fit into the wiring? I understand they are for connecting up stand alone units in the field etc, but im at a loss as to how they wire into the ariel unit?

 

On another note, does anyone know of any dealers that have any radio trays left? I have searched for ages and paced up and down the stalls at W&P but to no avail. I have seen the dimensions etc on the main Ferret site so it maybe that I will have to make one. If im doing that, is there anyone else out there that needs one as it would seems silly just to make a one off. Not sure about the price yet, I would have to cost up the steel etc.

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon Dawson

OOEC18

[sirhc]

 

 

Hopefully this should answer some of your questions.

 

Chris

Clansman installation into Ferret Scout Car.pdf

[AlienFTM]

I really ought to know the answer to this, being a former RAC Control Signaller and Rebro Ferret commander. My excuses are that I was Larkspur trained (but being on the last Larkspur Con Sig course, I spent pretty much my entire Con Sig career on Clansman) and that my rebro was 2 times VHF, not 1 times VHF and 1 times HF.

 

My recollection is that Clansman was idiot-proof and everything was click-to fit, so my guess is that if the cable end appears wrong on the antenna base, you have a Larkspur antenna base. We had to replace our Ferret and Sultan Larkspur harnesses in their entirety (the hybrid Scorpion and Scimitar Larkspur / Clansman harnesses may have had parts which might be re-used but I don't think so - I didn't personally convert any Scorpions or Scimitars - and the replacement kits came with everything provided anyway) including the antenna bases.

 

I do remember that the connection between the TUAAM (hang on: TUAAM was the Tuning Unit Automatic Antenna Matching on the 353; the HF 321 used something else, maybe ARFAT, Adaptor, Radio Frequency, Antenna Tuning?) ...

 

... the connection between the ARFAT and the antenna base was shielded by a series of black holed hemispherical plastic bits (whose name escapes me), the connection is deep out of sight and you do not plan to broadcast on the Military HF frequency band anyway (do you?), so with the best will in the world, even trying your hardest for authenticity, I shouldn't lose any sleep over this connection.

 

Out of curiosity. What is the scenario for your Ferret? What is it representing that has a 353 / 321 radio fit?

[ferrettkitt]

Good morning all,

 

Has anyone experiance of fitting a Clansman Set-up in Ferret's? I have a working 353 and 321 along with all connections etc and am slightly bemused as to how the tail from the arial base mount fits to the tuam. The tail is standard multi strand wire (not coax) so im not sure how it terminates at the tuam as all the ports are of the coax type?(except the earth) Also, how do the other ariel mounts (the ones with the screw down knurled caps) fit into the wiring? I understand they are for connecting up stand alone units in the field etc, but im at a loss as to how they wire into the ariel unit?

 

On another note, does anyone know of any dealers that have any radio trays left? I have searched for ages and paced up and down the stalls at W&P but to no avail. I have seen the dimensions etc on the main Ferret site so it maybe that I will have to make one. If im doing that, is there anyone else out there that needs one as it would seems silly just to make a one off. Not sure about the price yet, I would have to cost up the steel etc.

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon Dawson

OOEC18

 

Try B&E Boys in Rossendale they have almost the complete set up for the Clansman radios (both tuaam plates, radio tray, universal plate and the back radio mount which replaces the Larkspur version. What they have not got is the IB2/3 mounting plate. They did have a pile of them ask...

[griff66]

if u have a larkspur tray fitted there is a additional tray fitted to mount clansman gear

[simondawson]

Try B&E Boys in Rossendale they have almost the complete set up for the Clansman radios (both tuaam plates, radio tray, universal plate and the back radio mount which replaces the Larkspur version. What they have not got is the IB2/3 mounting plate. They did have a pile of them ask...

 

Thanks for that Andy, I will give them a shout. At the moment mine does not have any tray at all, just the thin sheet steel over the gearbox. Having looked through the PDF posted earlier (many thanks) it would seem that the installation kits I have must be wrong as it clearly shows a coax connection going towards the mount. The mounts I have are clansman type and the installation kits came with tails that have a plastic threaded piece that screws into the mount, however the wire is just standard multi strand and NOT coax. It terminiates into a disc which is covered in solder which make contact with the ariel. I cannot understand how it you would connect this to the tuam if its not coax????

[ferrettkitt]

Pic should be somewhere below of the clansman antennas I can't remember whats on the other side of the alloy mount that joins the antenna to the aerial part. I haven't got any alan keys to hand either to have a look

[simondawson]

Pic should be somewhere below of the clansman antennas I can't remember whats on the other side of the alloy mount that joins the antenna to the aerial part. I haven't got any alan keys to hand either to have a look

 

 

Thanks Andy, you have just confirmed my mounts cannot be correct, mine do not have the metal piece underneath, do you know where I can get hold of a couple?

 

Regards,

 

Simon

OOEC18

[airportable]

Thanks for that Andy, I will give them a shout. At the moment mine does not have any tray at all, just the thin sheet steel over the gearbox. Having looked through the PDF posted earlier (many thanks) it would seem that the installation kits I have must be wrong as it clearly shows a coax connection going towards the mount. The mounts I have are clansman type and the installation kits came with tails that have a plastic threaded piece that screws into the mount, however the wire is just standard multi strand and NOT coax. It terminiates into a disc which is covered in solder which make contact with the ariel. I cannot understand how it you would connect this to the tuam if its not coax????

Will try to help without any pics. Regarding the 321 it is a HF set. Start at the antenna, basic type31, (same as VHF but without the matching transformer) 4x1mt antenna sections. the multi strand as you suggest is held in the base with the plastic screw. The other end is simply connected to the rear of the turf via the wing nut and the large washer, turf connected to 321. A surf is only needed if a second HF is in the instalation.

Ref. Handbook army code 61253. Sorry dont know how to scan and send file.

Antenna cable should be insulated from contact with metal framework.

Pic of HF mount on my Airportable.

Andy.

[ferrettkitt]

Thanks Andy, you have just confirmed my mounts cannot be correct, mine do not have the metal piece underneath, do you know where I can get hold of a couple?

 

Regards,

 

Simon

OOEC18

 

Ebay would be a quick way but it might not be the cheapest way this guy below should have some but if you place a wanted ad in the forum someone might be able to find you a pair at a better price.

 

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/ta_shunca_uitco/

[airportable]

Thanks Andy, you have just confirmed my mounts cannot be correct, mine do not have the metal piece underneath, do you know where I can get hold of a couple?

 

Regards,

 

Simon

OOEC18

Think you will find the pic. shows the base set up for VHF i.e. your 353, 351/352. Think you will simply have to just remove the matching transformer and use the cable you have discribed fitted with the plastic nut/washer set. Good detail in army code book

61590.

Andy.

[ferrettkitt]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLANSMAN-RADIO-RADIO-ARIEL-SUPPORT-MOUNT-ELEMENT-/200499342204?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2eaeb12b7c#ht_500wt_1154

[AlienFTM]

The other end is simply connected to the rear of the turf ...

Tuning Unit Radio Frequency! I KNEW there was another box and that the ARFAT didn't do the tuning!

[airportable]

A pic or two of the turf and antenna base, basically the same in any vehicle.

Andy.

[simondawson]

Good evening all,

 

Many thanks for all your help on this subject. The tuam i have appears to be differant from the one posted earlier and has no connections on the rear (see pic) I am now thinking of mounting in the 353 but not wiring it up, however what I may do is mount my 320 alongside. Is it possible to wire the ariel directly to the 320 via the knurled knob on the side? (see pic)?

 

 

[airportable]

Hi Simon. Just read your thread through again. Your first post talks of a 353 and a 321.

The 353 is a VHF set.

The 321 is a HF set. Am I correct that your last pic. is a 320? If so, that is also a HF set. If you do have the 321 it is connected as per. my pics. through a TURF.

The 320 is a even simpler set up, antenna lead connected to antenna base as pic. other end is simply connected to the radio via. Quote user handbook. 5. Clip retainer, lead electrical (5999-99-637-0880)into the whip antenne socket on top of the radio set. Orientate it as indicated in fig.16.

6. Feed the end of lead,electrical through the cable grip of the retainer lead, electrical and clip the lead into the remote antenna connection on the radio set.

Dont have a 320 myself to check the connection.

Getting a bit confusing this! In your pic. you show a TUAAM, this is for VHF, i.e. 353. The antenna base/transformer connects to it. That connects to a ARFAT box via. two leads. Then connect to radio. You will find the knurled nut on the TUAAM is for earth bonding as usually it is on the radio. Earth bondind does make a instalation look the part.

Hope I have been of some help, and I stand corrected on anything.

Andy.

Edited August 6, 2010 by airportable
Gramma.

[g0ozs]

Hi

 

Regarding the 320 the socket with black plastic surround (and the push down connector) are the antenna connections for the manpack whip and wire antennas respectively. The knurled knob is the earth connection.

 

The connections for a 321 and 353 in vehicles are respectively

 

321 - coax - SURF (optional) - TURF - single wire feeder - HF antenna base

 

353 - coax & 12-pin cables - ARFAT - coax & 7 pin cable - TUUAM - coax - VHF antenna base

 

The TUUAM is an automatic VHF ATU (so a fixed length antenna outside the vehicle can be used on any frequency between 30 and 80 MHz without going outside to adjust it!). They are used with the RT353 in conjunction with an ARFAT (which reduces transmitter power until the TUUAM has matched the antenna) and with the RT351/2 sets in conjunction with an Initiate box that manually keys the radio and starts the tuner at the same time.

 

TURF is a manual ATU (with tuning tables printed on the side) for a wide range of HF antennas. A TURF can actually also be used with the RT320 (coax connection from 320 TX O/P to TURF input) in place of the internal tuner, since the 320 tuner supports only wire antennas but the TURF has both wire and coax outputs.

 

There are two marks of the antenna base for coax and wire input intended for VHF and HF respectively - I have a couple and will check which is which in the morning.

 

Regards

 

Iain

[simondawson]

Many thanks to both Andy and Iain for all the help on this matter. Would I be correct in thinking that I could, in theory, connect the single wire from the ariel mount directly to the antenna clip on the 320? It seems to work if I use a throw out wire strung from trees etc around the garden?

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon

OOEC18

[airportable]

Many thanks to both Andy and Iain for all the help on this matter. Would I be correct in thinking that I could, in theory, connect the single wire from the ariel mount directly to the antenna clip on the 320? It seems to work if I use a throw out wire strung from trees etc around the garden?

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon

OOEC18

Basically, yes. Your recieving 'chatter' in this way? Lucky you. My mate does with His 321. So mine dont work:cry:

I've been told many times by ex. signal men that they used to have a coil of copper wire handy to throw into tree's for a antenna so it could just be left.

Andy.

Edited August 7, 2010 by airportable
Spelling

[g0ozs]

Hi Again

 

I went out to the shed and looked at some antenna bases this weekend. The VHF base used with the TUAAM is actually in two parts - the wire ended Base Antenna Mounting No.31 MK 6 and the Base, Antenna Element Mk 2 which is the cylindrical part below the rubber.

 

Base Antenna Mounting No.31 Mk 2 is the part with a wire connection and can be used without the Base Antenna Element for HF with a 321 or 320 - just fit 4 metres of antenna elements and connect to the wire antenna terminal of a 320 or a 321 TURF. You should also connect a counterpoise wire of approximately 1/4 wavelength at the frequency in use to the earth terminal of the radio or TURF and lay that along the ground for best results - failing that connect the earth to the vehicle body.

 

Base Antenna Element Mk II contains a small (surprisingly small - about 1cm cube) transformer with input from the BNC connector and output to the base No.31 Mk 6 and is I think specifically designed for use with the TUAAM and VHF antennas of 2 metres length. This is of interest to me because I would like to make my radio SUMB look original with jeep-style MP65 ceramic antenna bases from the outside while having a Clansman radio fit inside, but the lack of a transformer in the MP65 base (which is electrically the same as a bare No.31 Mk6 base) may mean I can't use a TUUAM directly - I need to make an equivalent of the transformer in the Base Antenna Element Mk II first.

 

Regards

 

Iain

[AlienFTM]

... just fit 4 metres of antenna elements and connect to the wire antenna terminal of a 320 or a 321 TURF.

 

Serious question. Can you actually physically fit four metres of rod?

 

I have to ask because we rarely if ever needed the Divisional Guard Net and had we used it, we'd no doubt have thrown up a mast.

 

Come to think of it, probably: it's not so much more than the 12 feet maximum with HF on Larkspur. I hope when you fit that amount of rod to a moving vehicle you use an antenna slope adapter (what did they call those bright metal adapters that allowed a vertical rod out of an antenna base to slope?)?

[airportable]

Serious question. Can you actually physically fit four metres of rod?

 

I have to ask because we rarely if ever needed the Divisional Guard Net and had we used it, we'd no doubt have thrown up a mast.

 

Come to think of it, probably: it's not so much more than the 12 feet maximum with HF on Larkspur. I hope when you fit that amount of rod to a moving vehicle you use an antenna slope adapter (what did they call those bright metal adapters that allowed a vertical rod out of an antenna base to slope?)?

Hi, ref. Army Code book no. 61253

ANTENNAS

1.19 A 4 x 1m whip antenna is used for mobile ground-wave working and dipole and end-feed antennas are provided for static stations working sky-wave. An antenna counterpoise is supplied.

Must admit I would never like to travel with three never mind four! I do always like to get the handbooks before I spend money on kit. They sure can save you wasting hard earned cash. Andy.