Pat Ware Interview...

[Great War truck]

Vehicle ownership is constantly evolving. There are far less restorations going on now as most vehicle owners want to buy a vehicle already restored and there are of course less vehicles around to restore than there were years ago.

 

But most importantly, the number of people who are skilled enough to restore an old vehicle from a wreck is dwindling. Saying that the hobby has to evolve or die. If you turn away from the hobby someone who wants to wear a uniform, then that is one person less who might want to buy your old Jeep or GMC when you are too old to run it (not for a long time i hope). If we make ourselves exclusive, then we will become a very small hobby altogether.

 

Saying that the people who wear uniforms at shows go from the very impressive to the appallingly bad. I wont bother listing the heinous crimes committed by some people but surely these people can not look into a mirror and say “well that looks just right”.

Others though make a very good display and put in a lot of work too and due praise should be made of their efforts.

 

The reenactor/living History side is crucial to a healthy hobby. At a show, at least half of the vendors are supplying re-enactor stuff. The amount of people selling vehicle parts is really minimal. If I want a vehicle part I go to Beaulie not Beltring. There were only a handful of Living History displays at Kemble this year (two I think, but both very good). The stalls had a very bad time of it. Less stalls means less public interest, less attendees to the show, less income, eventual show collapse.

 

Do I wear uniform. Generally no. I am very conscious of my age. However I have done several times with my WW1 stuff (the oldest British soldier killed in WW1 was over 60 so I have 30 years of life left in me yet) and I think that I was involved in a very good display with some of our WW1 trucks and it made the display look right. I have also done WW2 US Engineers Special Brigade and think that we did a very good display there as well.

 

I am always conscious of what the veterans think of us, but can confirm that I have had 100% positive feedback from them, especially from the US ones. One of our members got very positive comments from a WW1 veteran, who was in fact wearing his original uniform at the time. However, my Father (an Ex National Serviceman) thinks I am a complete prat to wear a uniform. That is indeed his opinion, to which he is entitled. As I tell him, I don’t need a uniform to make myself look a prat, just a few drinks will suffice.

 

Just to stir up the topic a little more, some years ago at a MVPA convention in Chicago was a Kublewagen and SS reenactor. When the reenactor was advised that it was inappropriate for him to wear that uniform in Chicago (very high Jewish population there) he revealed that he was a well known WW2 Airborne Veteran and was highly decorated as well (he was really, he didn’t say that he was). Should we criticise him, or is ok for him to wear the uniform because of what he had done in the war? Answers on a postcard, or flaming E Mail will do.

Tim (too)

 

[Snapper]

Because I've never logged off properly I didn't see the new format until this evening - lost my password and had to start afresh. But the whole thing stems back to Pat Ware who I have worked for as a contributor to CMV since 2001 and whose interview with Jack is true to form (he is famous for polite but terse emails). Pat is a vehicles man first and foremost and is not interested as much in re-enactors/living history. However, there is no question that the MV scene has gained from the growth of it's stable mate in terms of the wider interest in the hobby as a whole. Mags like CMV benefit from the re-enactment world - they add colour and a bit of depth. At my first Beltring I was dumstruck when I saw a Waffen SS inspection by a group I assume to be the current SBG. I was part horrified and partly happy. As a photographer I am biased to a degree. The MV snappers talk about this subject a lot - but our biggest debate is how vehicles look best. There are two aspects here: Event photos show vehicle owners/passengers wearing what they bloody well like as they rumble around the field they are in. Many of my colleagues hate these moments because these photos have no "stock value" in their eyes. Classic depictions would show well turned out re-enactors in the vehicles in contemporary settings/action. I am personally not bothered if tank commanders want to wear their old Van Halen T-shirts while working video cameras in my photos. I didn't pay for the tank or the gas (etc!!). I definitely prefer to get more "realistic" images but this can only go so far and is best to be arranged privately - but we have immense difficulty getting some people to do it because they go all shy or are just not as vain as they might appear in a shallow degree to a wider audience - whether they dress up or not... In my time I've met some miserable sods who "live" the battlefield a little too much for my liking and they can be a bit scary too. A wannabe WW2 Para once demanded money from me for taking his picture - I haven't seen him or his group at any other event since. I've been fortunate to work with some kind and very level headed types too who I look forward to meeting on the circuit each year. Re-enactors are not models and they are definitely not the Killer Elite - but I think the whole "event" aspect of the MV world has been empowered by them. Like many my jury is still "out" over the SS guys - but the dedication of these people is stunning. I hope the two can live together as long as possible. There are too many grey people who would love to stop the whole hobby altogether as they move down their checklist. So whether you dress up or not - just HAVE FUN while it lasts. And if you want to be photographed please say so!!! I might draw the line at a Flock of Seagulls T-shirt though, Jack!! - Snapper (Mark B)

[MilitantGraham]

To take the re-enactors debate off on a slightly different tack, why is it such an important subject for military vehicle owners ?

I go to far more steam rallies than dedicated military vehicle shows. In most sections at a steam rally there will be a few individuals who dress appropriately for their vehicle, a victorian gentleman on his "ordinary" bicycle, a teddy boy in his Vauxhall cresta for example, but they are by far the minority.

All my vehicles are post war British and I wear the same clothes at a show as I do for work or play, boots, shorts and tee shirt with overalls on top as required. If anyone asks, I'm re-enacting a civilian ABRO mecahnic. :-P

[Mark]

AND what about the sealed knot society, these people take their re-enactment very seriously, do people get upset about them I wonder :?

[Pete Ashby]

AND what about the sealed knot society, these people take their re-enactment very seriously, do people get upset about them I wonder :?

 

 

Point well made Mark

 

I think the answer is no, so if that's true why?, do people feel a little uneasy about the Ermin Street Guard for example. A British Celt of the period would most certainly have had an opinion. So why is OK and considered perfectly acceptable, entertaining and educational if admittedly a little fringe to depict one phase of history and a bit touchy feely to depict WW11 is this the same issue with WW1 I wonder?

 

Pete

[ashley]

I believe that that the `frowing` of maybe axis WW 22 re-enacting is due to the political side of things.

 

Do not forget previous moments of time, Roman, English civil war etc were not so well reported and also may not of affected the civilian(?) population as such.

 

Though i am not into re-enacting / living history in any shape or form i believe that they are needed to enhance the use, display, deployment of the vehicles the mv`ers are proud to exhibit / show.

 

Ashley

[Jack]

I observed something rather ridiculous yesterday at Albourne involving to 101st reenacting groups. Not really my business but I would have been slightly embarrassed if I was part of that group.

 

Will write some more but need to get some work done - the boss is a git but he did let me have yesterday off!

 

Best wishes.

 

Jack.

[Jack]

Ok,

 

We took our children out of school to drive up to Aldbourne to meet Babe Heffron and Bill Guarnere as their tour stopped at Aldbourne, we will always take the kiddies out of school as history like this can not be taught in schools.

 

In a nut shell, the were two reenactment groups there 'ready' for inspection. One group were down the bottom of the village and the other outside the Blue Boar. Now he is the embarrassing bit - when I asked why the groups weren't both together on the green I was told that they don't talk to each other and that each group believes one is better than the other.

 

How big can egos get? I may be missing the point here but aren't they supposed to be there to be symbolic and a representative of the debt that we owe all of these guys? I wished that Babe Heffron or Bill Guarnere could bang their heads together and tell them 'grow up' that were acting like children - pathetic!

 

I am growing rather tired of this sort of reenactor, I have seen some great reenactors and learnt a great deal and I thank them for that but the 'fashion' reenactor needs to search his soul.

 

 

Best wishes.

 

Jack.

[ArtistsRifles]

How can one "be better than the other"?? The kit is the same, vehicles the same etc - this has me a bit confused!!

(OK - I know thats easily done but still.......)

[Jack]

How can one "be better than the other"?? The kit is the same, vehicles the same etc - this has me a bit confused!!

(OK - I know thats easily done but still.......)

 

 

Not to sure but I would imagine that there is some politics involved but if you were viewing the day as a MOP then you wouldn't know any different.........

 

Also, I must of heard the words " I was in BAND of BROTHERS" about 1000 times and it was getting louder each time

[berni]

i can vouch for the above, i was there as well ( woo hoo, what a day).

but i was saddened when a member of 1 group asked the others if they wanted to join forces & put on a marching display etc & the other group declined saying they had a plan & were sticking to it so no thanks they were going it alone.

i know a plan is a plan but surely they could see the benefit in having 1 large group rather than 2 with a dozen men in each.

rowan ( dotty dodge), his dad nigel & myself were made very welcome by the Screaming Eagles & they even let rowan & his dad stand in for inspection. They lent us pens ( to get our things signed), held our cameras, took pictures for us & generally made total strangers ( which is what we were to them) part of the day.

The other group waited untill all but 3 of us were left before they ventured up into the village from the duck pond & only about 2 of them spoke to us. the contrast was unbelievable.

maybe they planned on being so rude or maybe they were shy :?

either way i'm glad it wasn't just rowan his dad & me & them.

 

anyway i'll post a woo hoo report in the events section a bit later

ta

Berni

 

[ArtistsRifles]

Ancient Army proverb runs along the lines of:

 

"You can have all the plans you like - but on the day they aint worth dick!!, you go have to go with the flow!"

[Jack]

Think Berni sums it up.

 

I have had dealings with both and found one highly professional and dedicated and more importantly for me, proactive.

[Mark]

Think Berni sums it up.

 

I have had dealings with both and found one highly professional and dedicated and more importantly for me, proactive.

 

I think as you have named one group The Screaming Eagles, that the other group should be name as well, just in the sake of fairness

[berni]

i am compiling an e mail to the group concerned as i don't want to upset any political apple cart & even though some members acted like numpties. it may be the actions of a select few & not be the morals of the group as a whole.

i am not sure when they will reply as they are just off to Arnham but i will keep you informed when i do.

ta

Berni

[Jack]

I think as you have named one group The Screaming Eagles, that the other group should be name as well, just in the sake of fairness

 

 

Rather not Mark as it may well be Berni and I spitting the dummy and getting the wrong end of the stick. :-(

[Rlangham]

Sorry joining the debate a bit late, only just noticed it - just over four weeks ago at the Victory Show I was convinced into joining the Tommy Atkins society (http://www.tommyatkins.org) that portray the Leicestershire Regiment in WW2. Although i've only been to two events, it gives you a good feel of what it was like wearing the uniform etc, how heavy it makes you feel and on top of that carrying a rifle around. I'd still like to see how veterans see the re-enactment movement until i'm entirely sure of my judgement, a few i've talked to are all for it. Personally i'm not too keen on the SS re-enactors, but I suppose that's up to them if they want to do it...