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can you display a gun on your jeep


harley hoss
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hi just a quick one when i bought my jeep i was given 3 guns all with modern deacs . theres a 30 cal a 303 and a sten gun now i have never put the sten gun or the 303 on the jeep but the 30 cal is on a mount under cover . the local police have so far taken no notice have i been lucky or do they need to be scrapped as god nows i have tried to read this act on guns wow . to hard to understand ps if they have to be scrapped how would that work:embarrassed: thanx steve <harley hoss>

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There are (currently) no controls on deactivated weapons. If they are legal i.e. deactivated to proof house spec and have a certificate to prove it, you can display them on your Jeep. A certificate is not a legal requirement but it does prove your guns are or were correctly done.

 

However, to keep rule change at bay, it would be best not to flaunt them and only display them where appropriate. From the Police viewpoint, it's a fine line between deact, realistic imitation and real.

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The most important thing for any De-Ac weapon is the proof mark stamped on each major piece. This is bolt, frame and barrel. The mark will be two crossed swords, with the letters DA ,and a date. The position of the letters will indicate which proof house London or Birmingham. If these are NOT present, regardless of how many bits of paper or what's been done, the weapon is dubious. There are some very early de-ac's that do not need proof marks. But it would take a lot of study, not nesacarirly under the best of circumstances , to prove the point You say your's are modern de-ac? The marks should be there. They may be dispalyed, but be sure there is a good reason, such as a show or parade. For purposes of transportation treat as real, the trigger MUST be covered, but better to get a couple of cheap slips and cover the lot. Apply common sense. As for the 'criminal' side of it. The aggrivating factors for any crime are 'Take the W.I.F.E.'. Weapon, Imitation firearm, Firearm, Explosive'. a de-ac would fit at least two of those!

The 'act' you talk of do you mean the V.C.R.? That would make it illegal to own, manufacture,import or display a picece of wood shaped as a realistic firearm, with certain exceptions, but NOT a real De-Activated weapon! Go figure, we can't.

Edited by Tony B
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The most important thing for any De-Ac weapon is the proof mark stamped on each major piece. This is bolt, frame and barrel. The mark will be two crossed swords, with the letters DA ,and a date. The position of the letters will indicate which proof house London or Birmingham. If these are NOT present, regardless of how many bits of paper or what's been done, the weapon is dubious. There are some very early de-ac's that do not need proof marks. But it would take a lot of study, not nesacarirly under the best of circumstances , to prove the point You say your's are modern de-ac? The marks should be there. They may be dispalyed, but be sure there is a good reason, such as a show or parade. For purposes of transportation treat as real, the trigger MUST be covered, but better to get a couple of cheap slips and cover the lot. Apply common sense. As for the 'criminal' side of it. The aggrivating factors for any crime are 'Take the W.I.F.E.'. Weapon, Imitation firearm, Firearm, Explosive'. a de-ac would fit at least two of those!

The 'act' you talk of do you mean the V.C.R.? That would make it illegal to own, manufacture,import or display a picece of wood shaped as a realistic firearm, with certain exceptions, but NOT a real De-Activated weapon! Go figure, we can't.

hi thanx for your reply but as you all say a very grey area steve:-)
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if an m1 had dummy metalwork but real stock ,what paperwork would it need , if any?

That would be a 'realastic firearm' under the VCR. You would need to be a member of a recognised re-enactment group, with third party liability insurance. Which seems to be the only requirment to be 'recognised'.

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The most important thing for any De-Ac weapon is the proof mark stamped on each major piece. This is bolt, frame (Reciever) and barrel. The mark will be two crossed swords, with the letters DA ,and a date. The position (STAMP)of the letters will indicate which proof house London or Birmingham. If these

London is an Arm holding a Scmitar aloft, & the letters DA is in Script.

 

The Bottom line is to be safe & in line with F/Arms legislation (Which is a Minefield in itself!) If they are out of sight & COVERED up completely, you should be OK.

Mike

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I carry a copy of the Deac certificate clearly marked copy

 

This is perfect, & I do the same. If the photocopy of the Certificate is written accross digaonaly with a HIGHLIGHTER Pen. 'COPY' then you have not broken another rule. IE: Forgery! if you look at the bottom of the cert is states: copying of this certificate COULD be construed as forgery under the couterfiet Act' (Or words to that effect!) But by writing the word COPY across it, you have clearly defined it as what it is & there is NO INTENTION TO DECIEVE!

In Law, the Cert is incidental, what is important is the three marks on the Deact. However, your poor old 'Plod' is told that ALL deact weapons MUST have a cert. That is HIS guidelines. He doesnt know about the proofmarks (Only those who specialise or take a deep interest in the Firearms field will)

The cert also states: This certificate must be kept with the gun to which it relates at all times. This is clearly impractical at displays & shows. But I keep mine in a binder in clear plastic protective pages in my vehicle. They can then be produced if needed.

Mike

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cheers mate..... is it the same for blank firing 45's and Lugers?

 

Hells Bells, this does get complicated now. Where they manufactured only to fire blanks? Are they front or top discharge? 'THEY' got very worked up over blank firiers a while ago, what the outcome was I don't know.

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Just for info - The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007 make it an offence to have an imitation firearm - the definition of which is to be found in s.38 of The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 - whereby it states that a firearm which is realistic, and could only be identified as otherwise by an expert or examination is covered - so even a deactivated firearm may be covered. There are exemptions for historical re-enactments/shows etc

But having had a talk given by the police recently, the general enforcement opinion was that they may stop you and confiscate weapons because of this, unless you have all your paperwork with you etc..... so advice would be only have it on display if you are attending shows, and always carry deactivation certs with you etc.. Just thought you may like to know as no one has raised this legislation yet..

 

You can find all the legislation at the office of public sector information site at http://www.opsi.gov.uk or just enter into into a search on google :)

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No a De-Activated firarm is not covered by the VCR. It is not a replica or a realisitic imitation. The act covers Replica or Realiaistic Imatation firearms. The wording in any statue is the key. The same with handguns. I still OWN my pistols in all legal ways. The offence is POCESSION. I do not poceses them.

Edited by Tony B
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This week i took my VW Iltis to a mates garage so he could help me mount a machine gun on the vehicle. That done, i took it home this evening (gun not mounted obviously) and when i parked on the driveway, i took the gun out of the luggage area and locked it in my van. I then put the cover over my Iltis to stop it getting filled with rain.

 

About 10 minutes go by and i get a knock at the door. There was 4 cops there asking me what i was doing with firearms. :eek:

 

I explained myself and told them that they were deactivated and for a military vehicle. I then had to show them the deactivation certificates and take the cover off the Iltis to show them i do indeed have a military vehicle. They inspected all the 'weapons' and the certificates in detail.

 

They were fine with them and were happy that everything was legal but advised me to make sure the guns are covered whenever there is a chance the public might see them. They also advised that i take them indoors as opposed to my van or garage as they would be more secure from theft.

 

Fair enough, my mistake, i do live on rather a main road. Apparently they had received a call from a 'concerned member of public'. There is a retirement home opposite my house and they spend all day looking out of the windows so i guess it was one of them.

 

Now i need to find a suitable sack/box to store them in when i need to move them around.

 

I have a MG53, 2x G3 rifles and a mortar. If they were not deactivated/replicas, i'd be armed to the teeth! I need to figure out suitable covers for them before Sunday so i can take them to the Volksworld show.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here in the U.S., gun laws are formulated not only by the central Federal Government, but also by State and even City Governments. In addition to the gun law question, should your vehicle mounted weapons be perceived by the public as being "threatening", you may then also be charged with creating a civil disturbance. So having the proper canvas covers on them during transit to legitimate functions is a must.

 

As a result of the above, and potential liabilites resulting from live firearms mounted on historic military vehicles, the major U.S. military vehicle clubs have banned live weapons on vehicles participating in club activites.

As a Federally licensed gun collector, and a "living history' enthusiast, I personally attempt to present my fighting vehicles to the public in the manner in which they were fought.

 

My Saracen is fitted with a M1919A4 Browning MG in the turret, and a Bren Mk2 on the rear ring mount. To me, they are an essential part of the vehicle. No ammunition of any type is ever carried.

 

Explaining this to the public at "regular" antique car meets can sometimes be challanging. However, I have come to the realization that these same people who are critical are usually anti-military anyway, and would be objecting to the presence of an historic military vehicle at "their" car meet even if I were wearing an Hawiian shirt with matching Bermuda shorts...........

 

Pennsylvania law allows for the display of firearms in public for the purpose of "dramatic events". As a result, by wearing the proper uniform of the vehicle's era as a living history display, that qualifies me for the "drama" end. I am also the holder of a Pennsylvania concealed weapons permit, which allows me to legally carry any firearm in public-on my person, or on a vehicle. From a derringer to a .50 Cal

 

There is no margin for error-make one mistake amid all these laws, and you go to jail and your life is ruined. Getting the proper permits and obeying the law is crucial.

 

At the end of a run, I pulled the Mk VI over into a parking lot, and dismounted from the vehicle. I then noticed that there was a Police car with flashing lights behind me. The cop came up to me and said that he was curious about the Saracen as he had never seen one before. He then announced that he was glad that I had "pulled over" because if I had not pulled over, he didn't know how to make me:D

 

On another occasion, I had a M151A1 "MUTT" gun jeep at an event at a Naval Air Station. I had a .50 cal mounted on theM4 pedistal mount, and a 20mm Lahti anti-tank rifle mounted on a reinforced dash mount It was the only large caliber weapon I had at the time, and it just looked impressive on the vehicle. A contingent from the 101st Airborne was also there, participating in the display. At that time (circa 1980), the 101 only had M-60's mounted on their gun jeeps. They crawled all over my 4x4, examing my reinforcements to the uniframe that enabled my MUTT to handle these large caliber weapons.

 

I am proud to state that the following year, the 101 rolled out modifed 151A2 Mutts with 50's on the pedistal as well as newly developed dash mounts (which had never before been on the 151 series vehicle). So much for we collector's!

I realize that this thread was posted by a U.K. collector, but I thought readers would be interested in how American military vehicle collectors handle this same situation.

Gary Rubel

Wisconsin, USA

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