news Dambusters to be re-made

[Adam Elsdon]

Peter Jackson of Lord of the Rings fame, is currently producing "Dambusters" a re-make of the original film and is to be historically accurate. There is more info under The Dambusters on Wikipedia.

 

The dambuster wiki information also makes mention that Star Wars used the bombing scenes style from the film in the original Star wars film when they attack the Death Star.

 

So for those who cant wait for the new film, here is something to make you laugh, the bits involving R2D2 are great, a very clever bit of editing!

 

 

[Tony B]

Yeah like Chuck Gibson flying a B 29. Going to be intresting how they cover the original code word considering modern sensibilities. :-D

[Adam Elsdon]

Gibsons dogs name (Nigger) is causing them some problems apparently, a tv channel just cut out the name in the original film, but it left continuity problems in other parts of the film, and then they were inundated with requests why they done that, even the censorship board thought it daft.

Apparently he also used to call it Nigsy so they might be going to re-write with that .

[thedawnpatrol]

Surely there is no need to re write history for the sake of a dogs name!

This is our history and it should be told as it was, I for one do not see a problem!

 

Jules

[ford 369]

I wanted to call my black lab Nigger after Gibsons dog but my wife said I could not stand on the doorstep or in the park shouting Nigger when I wanted the dog to come back

 

Nigel

[DUNSFOLD]

Why not?????

[Tony B]

Will probably be all CGI. Sems to be filmmakers now if in doubt make a remake of a classic film, or maybe the US are trying to remind people .... no that thought is getting political, but... of a war they were on the winning side?

[Johnny]

Will probably be all CGI.

 

Sadly true, but I suppose it would have to be.

There are only 23 surviving Lancasters, and only two of those are airworthy.

The film would loose something with only two planes!

It would be nice if the films budget could stretch to making some of the others airworthy, or building flying replicas, but I very much doubt that it would.

Even if there were enough flying examples to make it viable, I doubt that they would be allowed to fly them in the way that 617 squadron did (sub 100 feet for much of the way to the dams and some very risky manoeuvers once they had released the bombs!).

So sadly, it would have to be CGI if it's going to be remade.

 

Will it be any better than the original film? I very much doubt it.

I suppose it will serve a purpose to educate younger people who may not know about the dams raids, and the bravery of those involved, so that will be a good thing; as long as they don't bastardize the story too much!

Edited January 23, 2010 by Johnny

[Adam Elsdon]

They have built 10 life sized models of the modified lancasters for the filming, and if Peter Jacksons love of all things vintage aviation is anything to go by, he will want them to be very accuate.

Saving Private Ryan used CGI, I think used in the right context it works well.

 

I dont think the original "The Dambusters" could be replicated, it is an iconic war movie, and very inspirational, but that was mainly because of the way it was portrayed and with that Dambusters March music.

 

But it wasnt exactly accurate either, and frankly the latest researched information that has come to light, paints a very different, grittier and valiant effort.

So hopefully the Kiwi director of british parenting, and with an obsession for vintage aviation will get it spot on.

[Sylvester]

Will be interested to see it.

As for getting the facts correct! I read the book about the raid , it has written coments by surviving members, but there are quite a few variations in the details, a case of elapsed time and memory as well as different views at the time and of course the good old 'rumour control' at the tme eh!

 

But i think it would be good to see the end product, I love the original but the thought of modern cgi effects does make you wonder just how realistic it will get!

A group of vets viewed the film Saving Private ryan, they said that it was the closest they had ever seen it portrayed on film!

So, i will certainly be getting the DVD when it comes out!

 

Fred

[Tony B]

As for 'inacruacy' have you read Guy Gibson's own book Enemy Coast Ahead? as that was written in wartime a lot of information is left out, and names changed for security. That at least had a point, to change the history just to get a bit of sex into it, or to please the nationallity that put most money up, most films will do, that's unforgivable.

[N.O.S.]

Take Memphis Belle. The sequence of manually winding down the landing gear was stretched out far longer than would have been the case just to enhance the suspense. Not knowing this at the time I thoroughly enjoyed it, but now it does irritate me just a teeny bit :-D:-D

 

The remake of Flight of the Phoenix is a classic example of how not to do it - the crash sequence goes on for ever (totally unrealistic) and not one of the characters is plausible (unless everybody really does go around speaking street slang and trying to outdo each other for the arrogance prize). No, it cannot hold a candle to the original. Complete and utter dross. A sad reflection of modern society. It is bad in every way the original was brilliant.

 

This new film however will be fantastic I'm sure. Because it is being made by an enthusiast. And because it will have been well researched without doubt. But mainly because when I watch it I will not be comparing it to the original, which stands high in its own right.

[Dave]

I have one simple question;

The original film was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,

How can it possibly be better than the original?

[Tony B]

I have one simple question;

The original film was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,

How can it possibly be better than the original?

 

Totally agree!

[antarmike]

I have one simple question;

The original film was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,

How can it possibly be better than the original?

 

Well It wasn't the whole truth. There is no mention in the film of the self destruct mechanism that was so sensitive there were fears that aircraft would be lost simply because the device designed to destroy the bomb should a plane crash, was overly sensitive and likely to go off with no reason. There is no mention in the film of the backwards and forwards arguements as to whether this device should be fitted.

 

As it was the mission was flown with the device although it was only armed at the end on the runway, after the aircraft had taxied from their pans.

 

The irony is that the device did not prevent an intact upkeep mine being recovered, by the Germans, from a crashed Lancaster.

 

The Film does not explain the diffeference between Highball and Upkeep, and there are shots which claim to be Upkeep, that in reality are shots of Highball being dropped from Mosquito's and Wellingtons.

 

There is no mention in the film of the difficulties in building a strong enough spherical wooden casing to convert the cylindrical Upkeep into a sphere, nor the discovery that the wooden casing wasn't needed. A lot of Barnes Wallis's effort was to determine the best shape for Upkeep, and he decided on a sphere, but it was impossible to make out of steel, so a cylinder was made, and a wooden casing converted it into a sphere. BUT it didn't work.

 

The original film never depicted the true shape of the Upkeep bomb. (still an official secret at the time the film was made.)

 

The film shows Barnes Wallis to be a genius who designed the bomb, and the brave flyers went and used it.

 

In reality the whole project was nearly abandoned because a spherical bomb could not be made strong enough to withstand the impact on the water. The project went ahead despite Barnes Wallis's conviction that the mine had to be spherical, and a purely accidental discovery that a Cylinder would work just as well. Barnes Wallis's genius was in reallity a lucky realisation that what he believed was necessary as a shape for he mine which had occupied so much of his investigation experiments, and engineering design and manufacture, actually wasn't actually necessary.

 

There is no mention in the film that days before the mission the Aircrew were destroying aircraft by dropping to low, or to late, and the watersplash had stove in the rear fuselage of a Lancaster and the Squadron was fast running out of converted aircraft to use in the mission.

 

The mission was nearly cancelled because the aircrew could not master the technique.

 

I would say that the film portrayed a perfect mission, not a chancy, inadequately prepared , mission whrere so much of the success depended on chance occurances and amazingly good luck.

 

There is no mention of the third dam to be attacked, being attacked with a weapon that had no chance of breaching an earth dam, because the whole idea and design was to attack masonary dams.

 

There is no mention that the Earth dam wasn't attacked from the water, with the bomb skipping across the water to the dam, instead it was attacked by flying allong the length of the dam, and the Mine striking the dam directly from the aircraft, without ever having touched water.

Edited January 24, 2010 by antarmike

[N.O.S.]

Erm, you forget to mention that a bomber never crashed into a hillside near the target :whistle:

[antarmike]

Am I right in saying the communication with the Lancasters, when actually attacking the dams, from Scampton would have been done in Morse Code, and not in plain speech as per the film?

 

If I am right then the infamous "N!gger" transmission to notify a breach would have been in morse, and much less likely to offend current sensitivities.

Edited January 24, 2010 by antarmike

[Adam Elsdon]

Am I right in saying the communication with the Lancasters, when actually attacking the dams, from Scampton would have been done in Morse Code, and not in plain speech as per the film?

 

If I am right then the infamous "N!gger" transmission to notify a breach would have been in morse, and much less likely to offend current sensitivities.

 

There may have been inter aircraft chatter in Plain language, although i would of thought that it would be Radio silence all the way to prevent interception by the Germans, the communications back to Britain would of been very short, via morse, and coded at that.

[Dave]

I drove past Scampton last week, on passing the main gate i said "this is where Nigger got killed by a car"

My missus who would normally have given me one of her looks on hearing this. just said yes and he was buried on the airfield whilst his owner was over Germany. Not being renowned for her miitary history memory i was well chuffed.

If the new film lets the yanks take the credit the dogs owner would be compassionate leave and counselling not winning a VC by leading what is generally regarded as the most accurate bombing raid of the whole war.

[trustmeimamechanic]

As a young lad we used to stay with friends who had a farm on the fleet near the moonfleet hotel , on the edge of the fleet were the remains of 2 bouncing bombs :cool2: , we played on and around them for years , also found the rudder of a Lanc riddled with flack damage over on the chesil , one of my regrets is dad never let us take it home , for years I had the trim tab from it ( sent too the IWM to be id'd ) but even that got lost when we moved .

Years later went back but the rudder was gone from where we hid it .... so if you found a Lanc rudder hidden by the outfall of the Moonfleet hotel sewage pipe ..... its mine and I want it back

[Tony B]

I've swum the Fleet! The new museum down by the Portland Road has some bits of one of the test bombs. Remeber the beer advert ? That was really funny.:-D

[trustmeimamechanic]

Seem to have spent half my summers either on, in , or under the fleet ... after falling off the boat / raft :-) - beach combing on the chesil - now there are a few storys to be told !!! oh the things we found ... big confession to make one day ... sorry to the coast guard , Portland naval station the list go's on... it was a very big bang :-X .. think its mostly a nature reserve now. remember sitting on the chesil while the helicopters fired at the targets out to sea , many a Wasp flypast (now that ages me )

[Snapper]

The script was written by Stephen Fry and the replica scale planes have been built in NZ. I think they are doing all the high end tech stuff before involving expensive humans we recognise. If Peter Jackson is also going to do a WW1 epic, we are in for some fun. There is also to be a new British WW2 film called Age of Heroes. The actors are having commando training at the moment. We had some snaps of them playing with Tommy guns this week at Murdoch towers. The film company are using ex-army types to do proper military stuff with the named types. Watch this space.

 

MB

[AlienFTM]

the crash sequence goes on for ever (totally unrealistic)

Reminds me of the old joke.

 

Fire crew arrives at the scene of the crash landing to find the pilot climbing out.

 

"What happened?"

 

"Dunno I just got here."

[AlienFTM]

The irony is that the device did not prevent an intact upkeep mine being recovered, by the Germans, from a crashed Lancaster.

... and indeed detailed plans exist, dated only a week or two after the raid for a German enhancement of the design, and the Germans continued to enhance the design throughout the war but never got the opportunity to use the weapon in anger.

The project went ahead despite Barnes Wallis's conviction that the mine had to be spherical, and a purely accidental discovery that a Cylinder would work just as well.

ALMOST as well. They learned during the raid, when they came under fire, that if the aircraft was not 100% level at release, the cylindrical Upkeep could fly off at all sorts of strange angles. Don't quote me but ISTR that one aircraft was lost BECAUSE as the Flak battery realised what was going on and started to engage, the Upkeep was released in this situation, bounced the wrong distance, failed to hit the dam, passed over it, exploded in the valley right under the Lancaster and destroyed it.