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Question - If you're operating an artic to transport your vehicles to shows, i.e. - not for hire and reward, do you still have to have an 'o' licence, tacho etc?

 

Also I know you have to do the licence for rigid first but do you have to do 7.5te before that? (since i'm too young to have got it with my car licence?), and has anyone any idea, ballpark, what it costs to get the full HGV licence? I believe its called C+E.

 

Cheers, Richard

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You can go straight for your HGV2 licence without having to do the 7.5 ton licence first. My brother did this about 2 years ago. The company he worked for would put the money up for the 7.5t licence and he asked if he paid the extra could he go straight in and do the HGV2 licence.

 

HTH

Ec

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As I understand it, if used laden even not for hire and reward you must now adhere to driver's hours regulations. The stumbling block is the weekly rest of 45 hours, reduceable to 24 hours every other week, so that if you do any work for 6 days a week there is no way you can drive to and from a show on a Sunday.

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As I understand it, if used laden even not for hire and reward you must now adhere to driver's hours regulations. The stumbling block is the weekly rest of 45 hours, reduceable to 24 hours every other week, so that if you do any work for 6 days a week there is no way you can drive to and from a show on a Sunday.

 

This thing about' rest' is complicated. Rest is defined as 'Time which you can dispose of, as you wish'. It can then be argued that you choose to 'dispose' of your time by going to a show.

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No O licence is required but this prohibits you from using the truck in connection with anyones trade or business not just for hire or reward.

 

If you had a mate who wanted you to move his JCB and you were happy to do it as a favour, if it was part of his or anybodys business, you would be breaking the law.

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HGV test has to be done in 2 parts, but as has already been stated you can go right up to max rigid weight not start at 7.5t and work up. The crazy thing is (I was in your situation) that I could then drive a 4 axle rigid loaded with 20ton but still not drive a car with a trailer over 750kgs...so I then did class 1 (or C + E I think its called now), the test isnt the expensive bit (around £70 I think x 2 if you do both) it is the week of tuition which pushes the price right up. I did my artic test quite soon after rigid, and having years of experience driving tractors & trailers only needed a day and a half additional tuition before doing second test. Passed both first time so no extra tuition/re-test fees. The guy teaching me reckoned older/more experienced drivers are harder to teach as they think they know best! Unfortunately the only way to pass is "play the game" and drive to the letter how they tell you. You will also have to do a theory including a hazard perception thingy on the computer.

As for using a truck for private use, ours are classed as PLG (tax costs around £200), MOT'd at HGV test centre, tacho although fitted is not required to be inspected. I should point out that it is over 25yrs old which provided it is being used for non commercial activities exempts it from tacho and drivers hours rules, even carrying a load - as long as it is your own stuff ie not for hire or reward. Unfortunately newer stuff over 3.5t falls under EU legislation whether being used commercially or not. So the answer is get yourself something over 25yrs old. This legislation (which has only recently had a weight limit placed on it) will also affect some landrover/trailer combinations.....

As per the recent disclaimers, this is just my opinion, and should be treated as such. Should anyone wish to read further into it may I suggest:

http://www.ohto.co.uk/drivershoursgoods.pdf

Exemptions given on page 9 vehicles which cant do more than 40kph, and more helpful on page 10 "historic vehicles", it states provided they are used for "non commercial carriage of goods" Scrolling down further is an exemption if your vehicle is pre 1947 or propelled by steam no less.

This just exempts you from EU rules, but it still comes under our own made up jargon UK rules, page 24 tells us more. Luckily straight away there is an exemption for anything which is not being used commercially (no weight restriction given).

Edited by Ed Batchelor
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Question - If you're operating an artic to transport your vehicles to shows, i.e. - not for hire and reward, do you still have to have an 'o' licence, tacho etc?

 

Also I know you have to do the licence for rigid first but do you have to do 7.5te before that? (since i'm too young to have got it with my car licence?), and has anyone any idea, ballpark, what it costs to get the full HGV licence? I believe its called C+E.

 

Cheers, Richard

 

 

 

 

Hi Richard,

 

See here for exemptions and rules.

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/workingtime/drivershoursgoods.pdf

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This is all great info, thanks guys.

 

One more - i'd like to buy an artic tractor unit and put a hiab behind the cab to use for lifting heavy bits during restorations, but at the moment have no need for a trailer. So, my question is, in the interests of spreading the cost of taking HGV 1 & 2, would i get away with driving a tractor unit solo on an HGV 2 licence?

 

Richard

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This is all great info, thanks guys.

 

One more - i'd like to buy an artic tractor unit and put a hiab behind the cab to use for lifting heavy bits during restorations, but at the moment have no need for a trailer. So, my question is, in the interests of spreading the cost of taking HGV 1 & 2, would i get away with driving a tractor unit solo on an HGV 2 licence?

 

Richard

Short answer is no unless you remove the fith wheel. or make it unable to tow a trailer.

 

I know that thanks to a old boss of mine when i had a class2 who said "just pop with me to the garadge to pick a unit up. I got 2 miles down the road vosa stopped me and police did me for driving a class1 truck without a licence.

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You can do it but I think you have to blank off the fifth wheel (or remove enough parths such that it's not possible to tow a trailer while you're driving it). There's a big leaflet on the DVLA website somewhere that explains.

 

Stone

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Short answer is no unless you remove the fith wheel. or make it unable to tow a trailer.

 

I know that thanks to a old boss of mine when i had a class2 who said "just pop with me to the garadge to pick a unit up. I got 2 miles down the road vosa stopped me and police did me for driving a class1 truck without a licence.

 

Can this really be right? A cat C vehicle is defined as one over 7.5 tons MAM which is not towing a trailer over 750kg, not, as far as I know, one that is not capable of towing a trailer.

 

Applying the same logic, you would presumably need a C+E licence to drive a rigid over 7.5 tons if it was fitted with a coupling for a drawbar trailer even if no trailer was coupled, and for that matter a B+E licence to drive a Landrover if the vehicle was fitted with a towing hitch and thus capable of towing a trailer, even if no trailer was attached.

 

I have heard of several instances of VOSA and/or Police personnel being mistaken in roadside judgements, which is hardly surprising in view of the complexity of current road transport laws. I wonder if this is such a case.

 

I cannot find (with a quick search) anything on the DVLA or yougov websites about this. If anyone can provide a link please do so!

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The only relevant info I can find online (DVLA or Direct.Gov sites) on this subject all defines cat C thus:-

 

Category - Description

C - Vehicles over 3,500 kg, with a trailer up to 750 kg

C+E - As category C but with a trailer over 750 kg

 

I cannot find any mention of artic tractor units being excluded from this with two exceptions:-

 

1) Guidance leaflet INF29 "Minimum Test Vehicles" (which stipulates the minimum test vehicles which may be used by driving test candidates) states that you must turn up for a Cat C driving test in "A rigid vehicle (not a tractive unit of an articulated vehicle) weighing at least 10 tonnes MAM and at least 7 metres in length, capable of 80kph". Since it is unlikely that this leaflet would tell you not to attend for a Cat C test in a vehicle which you cannot legally drive on a Cat C licence (such advice being unnecessary) I suggest that this implies that 'the authorities' accept that you can drive such a vehicle on Cat C once you have passed the test.

 

2) An exception in INF52 "Special Licencing Arrangements for Drivers of Large Vehicles" which states that the holder of a full Cat B licence can drive "articulated goods vehicles not exceeding 3.05 tonnes unladen weight". This is interesting (to my mind at least) because there is no mention of the "+E" supplement for trailers over 750Kg. Whether this is because it is for some reason not possible to exceed 750Kg trailer weight and remain under 3050Kg unladen combined weight, or whether this is simply and oversight or error, is not clear. It doesn't afffect Cat C holders anyway.

 

So, it is my belief that although you cannot turn up for a Cat C test in a trailer-less artic tractor, you can drive one once you have passed the test. Usual disclaimers apply however, and if you are stopped while so doing you will have to argue your own case!

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And, if operating commercially , a drivers Certificate of proffesional competence, unles your main job is not driving , but enginnering or maintinence or your main job requires you only to drive a LGV to and from a place to carry the tools of your trade and..........at this point my head exploded!

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HI all

 

Even the drivers CPC isnt straight forward. If you take your test after i think it was September this year then you need it, if you had a licence prior to then, you have 5 years to do it. It is 35 hours of training, but can be done in blocks over the 5 years. It has nothing to do with the CPC that you need to hold an operators licence.

 

Regards

 

Dougy

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See here;

 

http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/licence/group_2.html

 

 

If you had an old class two or three licence before the rules changed you are able to drive a draw bar on your licence under restriction 102. If you passed your class two after the rules changed then you can't drive a draw bar and will need a class one to do so.

Edited by LoggyDriver
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Plus now, like Europe you must have both parts of your licence with you. This is for the CPC, September last year for trucks, a year earlier for PCV, you must have the ticket. If like us old foggies you had a licence before the nonsense then it is the date of issue proves you don't need to cary the CPC.Complictaed or what?

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  • 1 month later...

I know that this thread has been dormant since December, so probably the question is answered, but I have just come across a thread on Trucknet which asked the same question, i.e., can the holder of a Cat C licence legally drive an artic tractor unit provided that it is not towing a trailer at the time?

 

There is a long debate but the concensus is that the answer is YES, since a tractor unit is a rigid good vehicle with an MAM exceeding 7.5 tonnes. There is absolutely no need to do anything to the 5th wheel coupling.

 

One link contained in the trucknet thread is to the Cheshire Police website - Cheshire Police - which confirms that this is also their official view.

 

The Trucknet thread is here - http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22652&highlight= - if anyone is interested.

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Just to put a spanner in the works -

 

NO ONE is exempt from driving hours when it comes to the law.

 

If your vehicle does not have a tacho fitted - you are required by LAW to keep a written record of your driving hours!!!

 

Whether you are driving PLG / HGV with an O licence / Recovery vehicles or anything else - you are NOT exempt drivers hours.

 

As it happens, the only reason why commercial bus drivers are not expected to keep a written copy of their drivers hours are due to the time tables to which they run. The timetables are considered to be their driving hours as they are schedualed services.

 

In regard to carrying a load - taxed and insured as a private light goods - there are ways this can be done - but check your insurance and licence details.

 

It's a mine field and you will fall foul if anything goes wrong.

 

Markheliops

Edited by Markheliops
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Just to put a spanner in the works -

 

NO ONE is exempt from driving hours when it comes to the law.

 

If your vehicle does not have a tacho fitted - you are required by LAW to keep a written record of your driving hours!!!

 

Whether you are driving PLG / HGV with an O licence / Recovery vehicles or anything else - you are NOT exempt drivers hours.

 

As it happens, the only reason why commercial bus drivers are not expected to keep a written copy of their drivers hours are due to the time tables to which they run. The timetables are considered to be their driving hours as they are schedualed services.

 

In regard to carrying a load - taxed and insured as a private light goods - there are ways this can be done - but check your insurance and licence details.

 

It's a mine field and you will fall foul if anything goes wrong.

 

Markheliops

 

 

Good advice, even the Army aren't exempt recording drivers hours, however a CO can issue a waiver to extend your driving hours if needs be for an Exercise, not sure how it would stand up in court though if you caused an accident after spending 18 hours at the wheel.:undecided:

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Just to put a spanner in the works -

 

NO ONE is exempt from driving hours when it comes to the law.

 

If your vehicle does not have a tacho fitted - you are required by LAW to keep a written record of your driving hours!!!

 

Whether you are driving PLG / HGV with an O licence / Recovery vehicles or anything else - you are NOT exempt drivers hours.

 

 

Markheliops

 

Sorry Mike but a vehicle that has Historic Status is exempt from both Tacho and Drivers hours if used on a non commercial basis. In the UK a vehicle gains Historic Status (not for VED but thats another story) at the age of 25 years.

 

There are quite a few other exemptions such as Breakdown/Recovery vehicles operating within 100km radius of base and our good old favorate the "Mobile Project Vehicle" are now also exempt from Driving Hours and Tacho

 

Info here - Exemptions on pages 9 to 12 -http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/repository/Rules%20on%20Drivers%20Hours%20and%20Tachographs%20-%20Goods%20vehcles%20in%20the%20UK%20and%20Europe.pdf

Edited by Grumpy
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