W+P my letter to them. (Are you going to the 2010 Show Poll)

[Rick W]

Did you calcuate in the cost of hiring the venue as Snapper said it wasnt Rex who owned the farm? Also agree with the quad bike issue. After I had arrived and pitched camp, I went for a wander in the dark, only to witness a quad being driven by a 10(ish )year old, younger brother on the back nearly have a head on with a Mondeo. The bike was obviously too big for him to handle, as he couldnt reach the bars properly.

[ferretfixer]

Did you calcuate in the cost of hiring the venue as Snapper said it wasnt Rex who owned the farm? Also agree with the quad bike issue. After I had arrived and pitched camp, I went for a wander in the dark, only to witness a quad being driven by a 10(ish )year old, younger brother on the back nearly have a head on with a Mondeo. The bike was obviously too big for him to handle, as he couldnt reach the bars properly.

 

As well as this situation, & others. It must be borne in mind that The Road Traffic Act is valid at this venue when the show is opened. This in effect means that normal policies apply. IE: Vehicle Insurance, Driving Licence & the Lawfull applications thereof. (Under 18's driving vehicles Etc).

The reason that you need to fullfil these LEGAL requirements is:

Although the land is privately owned. When the Place is open QOUTE: 'Where the public have access by Payment, or otherwise'. Unqoute: It becomes a 'Public Place'. And to that end all Laws apply equaly for Road vehicle usage Etc.

IF, The Boy's in Blue were to Enforce the Law. This could generate resentment & possibly recomendations to insert 'Rules' that may be unacceptable to some of the attendees & thier Families.

It is upto the show organisers to enforce the rules where applicable. & if they cannot do that, then the last resort is the Law. (Sadly)

this would be a great shame, as the atmosphere at W&P is generally friendly & relaxed. And it should remain safe!

It will only be a matter of time before somone meets with a nasty accident, or worse!

Just my own Two pennies worth..................................:coffee:

[LoggyDriver]

My point of view on this is that the parents of the kids riding these quads/motorbikes know all to well the conditions of entry onto the site. It's written for all to see on the conditions of entry form that everyone signs. If they get nicked by the Police they have only got themselves to blame. You wouldn't let your 10 year old kid ride down the road on a quad bike with no helmet, so why let them do it at W&P?

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not against the kids riding these bikes, I used to do it myself when I was younger. The trouble is they do it at W&P when there is heavy vehicle traffic, tanks etc as well as members of the public on foot. I think if there is an unused field at W&P then this could be put aside for the kids to ride on. I saw kids at W&P that were far to young to be riding the size of bikes that they were on. As Rambo1969 said. Imagine the horror of a kid loosing control of a bike and crashing into your vehicle or worse your family members. Imagine the problems trying to claim off the insurance, hit by an underage uninsured driver?

[woa2]

As Rambo1969 said. Imagine the horror of a kid loosing control of a bike and crashing into your vehicle or worse your family members. Imagine the problems trying to claim off the insurance, hit by an underage uninsured driver?

How about one of these underage kids losing control and ending up under your Truck or Tank?

[rambo1969]

How about one of these underage kids losing control and ending up under your Truck or Tank?

 

And just imagine how guilty you would feel, even though it was not your fault.

[flyingp]

Outgoings; again I have been very fair with the outgoings;

 

 

very very fair , i should imagine there is a big discount on the loos. as the W&P is on every year,, no way are thay paying 1100quid a day to the workers,, basic wage more like, and pay to take your MV in,, forget that..someones being greedy

[rambo1969]

The worlds largest mv show, and mv's have to pay to get in!, go figure.......

[Jack]

But there is a big but in all of this in that no one has to go?!

 

Mrs Beckett and I drive two villages away to go to a pub because I refuse to support the one in our village - I am not happy paying 90p for a Kit kat! So I vote with my feet and custom.

[Degsy]

But there is a big but in all of this in that no one has to go?!

 

Mrs Beckett and I drive two villages away to go to a pub because I refuse to support the one in our village - I am not happy paying 90p for a Kit kat! So I vote with my feet and custom.

 

Spot on Jack, as I have said before I will not go when I have to pay to show a vehicle, add on the toilet and other problems and the obvious large profit involved and it becomes a complete no-no.

[Jack]

Since the day I became involved in the hobby I have heard the arguments about having to take your MV. I can't see the problem with that at all - and here is why I think that.

 

Yes the show wouldn't be the show it is if it wasn't for folks taking their mv's - 'if it wasn't for us taking our vehicles then there would be no show...so why should we have to pay'. It is a good view point but one I don't agree with. The other conversation could be this - people are happy to pay £10 to enter Stoneleigh Militaria BUT if you use the same argument as the one for W&P then the same applies. If the public didn't turn up, pay the £10 then there would be no show.......it is the same principle but no one seems to look at it like that?

 

Or am I way off?

[ArtistsRifles]

We pay at W&P for our vehicles (unless you have 2 years membership in IMPS - then it's no charge) and for that we get access to the arena where we can put them through their paces in a controlled, safe (well - OK - safe as a given value for machines designed for killing people) environment. When not in use we can under certain conditions rumble around visiting friends not seen for ages. That side - to me seems fair.

Provided we then don't get stung for camping fees in the future..

 

In return for this, as Rambo says, I think we have a right to expect certain basics - like adequate and functional loo's and reasonably priced catering outlets.

 

Myself - I'd also like to see an on-site POL point from one of the fuel companies selling it's products at a reduced price - if the Army and RAF can refuel vehicles in the field from tankers I'm damned sure the likes of BP, Esso, Shell etc, could do it too. If they could knock 20 or 30p off the price of a litre it wouldn't be too bad a thing to have there esp. for those exhibiting heavy armour and vehicles.

[Rick W]

Agree with Artists Rifles, Degsy and Jack. But W&P is a big chance for people from all over to meet each other, show their vehicles and buy goodies. Ridiculously overpriced yes. Unless someone wants to set up a show to rival it? As for your Kit Kat Jack, if you didnt want it at any cost, maybe you should have given it back to them! Once your local pub goes, it goes. Seen too many locals go, so its our duty to keep them going! Unless you want to hit a nightclub in the town for a £5 bottle and no Kit Kats!

[Blackpowder44]

Sorry to disagree with you Jack, but when you go to Stonleigh you are the public and you are paying to go in and look around the stalls. If you take a vehicle to a show you are not the paying public but an exhibitor and the public are paying to see them as well as going round the stalls.

Many years ago some pright sparks wanted to have an MV show at Wincanton and asked me to bring my Bren Carrier. Knowing that this was a mony making outfit with nothing going to charity I said my fees would be the same as I received for film hire, i.e. £250 per day plus mileage both ways. Every one I knew said the same. Result no show and nothing in the pockets of a bunch of chancers.

I will never go to a show if I am expected to pay for the privilage, we have been offered petrol money by the Branscombe Air Day, but this is a charity event and we have refused to accept the money. John.

[Dougiebarder]

We pay at W&P for our vehicles (unless you have 2 years membership in IMPS - then it's no charge) and for that we get access to the arena where we can put them through their paces in a controlled, safe (well - OK - safe as a given value for machines designed for killing people) environment. When not in use we can under certain conditions rumble around visiting friends not seen for ages. That side - to me seems fair.

Provided we then don't get stung for camping fees in the future..

 

In return for this, as Rambo says, I think we have a right to expect certain basics - like adequate and functional loo's and reasonably priced catering outlets.

 

Myself - I'd also like to see an on-site POL point from one of the fuel companies selling it's products at a reduced price - if the Army and RAF can refuel vehicles in the field from tankers I'm damned sure the likes of BP, Esso, Shell etc, could do it too. If they could knock 20 or 30p off the price of a litre it wouldn't be too bad a thing to have there esp. for those exhibiting heavy armour and vehicles.

 

I wonder how many of us would turn up with a stack of jerry cans (or even a bowser) if they could do that.:yay:

[Jack]

I hear what you are saying John but you pay £10 to enter a fair - just to be able to spend your own money. I haven't got a problem with that at all but it is just the same thing but coming from another angle.

 

Rick - no way would I spend any more money in that pub. They are suffering from what most business's suffer from and that is complacency. They are many factors of why pubs are failing but it is a Kit Kat too far for me! Funny enough, you don't go to a pub for a drink as you can do that at home - you go for the 'experience'.

[Tony B]

Said to Rex some years ago, 'We don't bring our vehicles all you have is a F**** great empty feild!' About time show organisers were reminded of that?

[ferretfixer]

Said to Rex some years ago, 'We don't bring our vehicles all you have is a F**** great empty feild!' About time show organisers were reminded of that?

 

I go to, AND have been going to many shows, for many years.

I have NEVER been to, or supported a show that charges EXHIBITORS!

It costs a great deal to get some types of vehicle (IE:Armour, Heavies Etc) to a show. Sometimes covering great distances.

The price of Petrol is extortionate, & the cost of restoration & spares is great also.

The show organisers in general, get a great many 'Heads through the gate'. This means a good finacial renumeration.

Out of that, they have insurance, Toilets, sometimes rubbish clearance providers, HOPEFULLY water facilities, cost of plaques Etc TO OUTLAY FOR.

A show like W&P can factor all that outgoing expense into the planning stage.

They have been going for years now as we all know.

Indeed, a profit made is nice, & not begrudged by all, if FAIR. All the outgoing expenses are catered & planned for. The profit is absolutely HUGE! So, in that case, WHY, if after all the points I have made as an exhibitor, should I also have to bear the brunt of PAYING along with most other people to provide an exhibit to make a show?

The amount of paying visitors should make a decent enough profit for the organisers. so WHY should the exhibitors have to contribute, when basically, it is THEM that makes the show!

The point has been made already; NO EXHIBITS, = NO, SHOW! :coffee:

[woa2]

The point has been made already; NO EXHIBITS, = NO, SHOW!

There was a classic car show in Reading that used to ask for a charity donation on entry. One year they asked for an £8 entry fee. The entry went from 1,000 cars to 76. Panic then set in and a letter was sent out saying there was no fee, but a donation would be appreciated. The show folded a couple of years after.

[Adrian Barrell]

Funny enough, you don't go to a pub for a drink as you can do that at home - you go for the 'experience'.

 

I would have thought paying 90p for a KitKat was an experience! :shocked:

[rambo1969]

Some excellent points there jack, the thing I just don't understand is why w+p charge mv owners and yet reenactors get in free..

I don't think anyone should pay to get in anywhere when you are spending money, car boot sales even charge an entrance now!:argh:

Imagine tesco's charging to enter?

 

I am all for a company making money, but when rex say's "our previous toilet contractor was beyond our budget", that really gripes me.

 

To be fair, I would pay to attend a mv event, but, and this is a BIG but, I would expect the facilities to be PERFECT!!

 

The thing that frustrates me about w+p, is we know it's possible to have excellent toilet facilities at a mv show, it's just that w+p choose not to.

[Rick W]

Agree with you Rambo. You think tahts bad, I clocked someone on the internet selling knock off bits off green canvas with twigs and string and calling them tents! Postfinder or something. You should have seen the prices!:-D

[LoggyDriver]

I also think that charging to get into a show is wrong. Many of us have to drive for many hours to get to W&P at vast cost in fuel. We also use our much deserved leave to spend the week there. The reason I pay to get in is because it's the only event of it's type where "most" MV owners make the effort to attend and it's a chance to meet old friends that you don't see at other shows. If there was an alternative show of a weeks duration of a similar size for free then I would be there.

 

I don't think there would be much support in boycotting the event from exhibiters. If everyone got together for one year and refused to go, then the show would come to an end, or they would have to either reduce the entry price or scrap it altogether. So unless it was a concerted effort to boycot the show, the numbers refusing to pay out of principle would make no difference to the show. At the moment it's a case of "well if you don't want to pay, then don't come". If everyone decided not to go then they would have to do something.

 

I think it would be relatively easy to set up an alternative show if someone had the land and drive to do it. When you look at the facilities W&P offers, it's not that much is it? One shower block, a small shop, water points and a pub (where we waited nearly 2hrs for a dinner to arrive). Everything else is hired in for the event. So it's not a case of "it's the only show that can offer the facilities". Look at Glastonbury, that's just fields with no shower block. Why doesn't W&P hire in more portable shower blocks? The showers they have are just not enough. I got so sick of using them or waiting to use them, or coming out dirtier than when I went in, that we bought a shower tent and shower bags and had cold showers all week.

 

I think if a place like Duxford, (where there is far more to see), set up a week long show with free entry and maybe even an airshow to boot then this would be serious competition to W&P. Until someone does something similar then we are stuck with what we have.

[Rick W]

Agree with you there Loggy Driver. I wouldnt suggest it would be easy to set up a show like W&P, I reckon it would take at least 2 years in the planning to get it off. It would take longer to get it known. But " From acorns" etc. It would not be impossible.

As for the exhibitors/stall holders. Im sure they must make there money to make it worthwhile, lets face it, if they werent in it for the cash they wouldnt be there. It would take someone with a lot of land, like Duxford to hold a week log event like that.

It would need a lot of outlay for the initial costs, advertising etc, static costs etc, but it would not be impossible. In fact, thinking about it, it can be done with a group of people, the finaces could be an obstruction.

[Marmite!!]

Don't think many of you have a clue what it takes to put on a show & what's involved, Ian & myself are in our 5th year next year with the Bunker Bash, we work at arranging the show all year round, it's not a case of having a large field & filling it... we have over 6 times the space that the W&P use available to us if we want it, it's been bloody hard work getting where we are today, we just take a little bit extra area each year as the show grows. There are many expences that have been left of out the "fag Packet" accounts, even we are suprised each year what we spend on expences :shocked:

Don't forget the W&P Show has taken 27 years to grow into what it is today... you can't just take a field & fill it with MV's, if anyone thinks they can then put ya money where ya mouth is:-D

 

BTW Rambo... we have just bought another 30' container toilet block :-D

& yes we have Hot Shower available...

 

As for quad bike's... think they should start with the Jeeps being driven about by underage drivers, there's seem to be as many of them as there are quadbike's

[Willyslancs]

27 years to grow into what it is today , yet all this about its toilets!......Dread to think what they were like when they started then....agree what you say about setting a rally up safariswing (my mum and dad used to organise the military vehicles at blackpool airshows in the eighties , i believe it stopped due to the main organisers being both killed in plane crash)

Edited December 14, 2009 by Willyslancs