Guest Yin717 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 On my research of armoured vehicles I had read up on the Fox Armoured car. At first sight it looked like an amazing vehicle with updated technology and it's amazing 90mm gun was it? But I read on and it seemed that it's big gun made it very unstable, especially on slopes, and that the 300 in British service were being looked at to be 'gotton rid of' quickly. I was just wondering if this was true? Ieuan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ieuan, Not sure where you got the 90mm from, but a CVR(W) Fox was fitted with a 30mm Rarden, I worked on them during their whole service period and that would have spanned 18+ years. As for being unstable, I think the cases of overturns are grossly exagerated, thinking of those that came in for repair in that period due to that happening, and they were few. Had more engines destroy them themselves though. So they were not "gotten rid of quickly" as you say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yin717 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I thought the book had exaggerated it. I mean it was quickly talked about but I just read it and thought, all this technology and this guy considers it a disaster? It just didn't make sense. So to meet someone who has actually worked on these things has been a great help. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ieuan, We have a Fox, which we have pretty much completely rebuilt fromt he ground up. It is not a bad vehicle, but it is one which needs a lot of care and attention. There is not much modern technology in there, it's all fairly basic. Its is however very crampt and it wouldn't have been possible to fit more modern equipment in the turret as it has been with the CVRT. The engine is a weak spot, but the gearbox seems to be the main problem with them. Most former Fox crewman have fond memories of them, most former REME guys didn't enjoy them quite so much! Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The engine is a weak spot, but the gearbox seems to be the main problem with them. Actually Chris, it was the engine that caused the gearbox problems, right from the word go.........and it was not solved until the Fox came to the end of its service. Long story, will relate sometime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'd be interested to hear it Richard. I've heard of plenty of people who have had gearbox problems in private ownership. We assumed it was because it was basically a Ferret box, but a more powerful engine and more weight to shift? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Actually Chris, it was the engine that caused the gearbox problems, right from the word go.........and it was not solved until the Fox came to the end of its service. Long story, will relate sometime. That will make interesting reading Richard!! I'll look forwards to seeing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'd be interested to hear it Richard. Just off to have my meal, Chris. Will be back later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'd be interested to hear it Richard. :goodidea: Will be back later :coffee: :yawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sorry chaps, been waylaid this evening have to wait until tomorrow night now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yin717 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Wow how interesting. I personally think it was a rather interesting vehicle, and I always love the look of armoured cars. They just seem so.......I dunno how to describe them. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Actually Chris, it was the engine that caused the gearbox problems, right from the word go.........and it was not solved until the Fox came to the end of its service. Long story, will relate sometime. Sorry for the wait...here goes.. The gearbox problem........from the very start Fox's were returning from exercises with worn bands on 2nd predominatly. This was a common pattern, wear was happening too quick for auto adjuster to keep up. We would reset manually inside on those that were not auto adjusting, but still serviceable. Then a mod instruction came through to change the accelerator pump jets and non return valves to eliminate a flat spot when pulling away. This was why the bands were wearing, as they pulled off, the engine fluffed and drivers were dipping the gear change pedal ( as you would on a clutch ), to get the revs up again, then let the pedal off, consequently the bands were suffering badly. From memory, and a lot of things have happened since, so not crystal clear, the initial jet and valve change made little difference, and I think there may have been similar mods later on..............then after many years and at a point when the Fox was near the end of service, the problem was solved. It was caused by too much fuel on accelaration giving "bore wash". A new and modified throttle body was available, with new linkage for the acc. pumps, once set up to instructions, it reduced the max volume of fuel on accelaration by 30%. One heck of a difference in performance. Thats it ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Richard, Thanks for the info. I knew there were a few mod kits for the carb. I know of several cases of the failure shown here: http://afvsociety.co.uk/Forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=137 This seems to be fairly common amongst privatley owned Foxes. Did this occur in service too? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Richard, Thanks for the info. I knew there were a few mod kits for the carb. I know of several cases of the failure shown here: http://afvsociety.co.uk/Forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=137 This seems to be fairly common amongst privatley owned Foxes. Did this occur in service too? I have fitted the later carbs, in service, with modified throttle bodies. Since then working for myself, I fitted a kit to a carb, hence knowing about the acc pump linkage set up. Gearboxes were known to sieze in the geartrain. Not unusual for Saracen and Ferret also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yin717 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Sorry for the wait...here goes.. The gearbox problem........from the very start Fox's were returning from exercises with worn bands on 2nd predominatly. This was a common pattern, wear was happening too quick for auto adjuster to keep up. We would reset manually inside on those that were not auto adjusting, but still serviceable. Then a mod instruction came through to change the accelerator pump jets and non return valves to eliminate a flat spot when pulling away. This was why the bands were wearing, as they pulled off, the engine fluffed and drivers were dipping the gear change pedal ( as you would on a clutch ), to get the revs up again, then let the pedal off, consequently the bands were suffering badly. From memory, and a lot of things have happened since, so not crystal clear, the initial jet and valve change made little difference, and I think there may have been similar mods later on..............then after many years and at a point when the Fox was near the end of service, the problem was solved. It was caused by too much fuel on accelaration giving "bore wash". A new and modified throttle body was available, with new linkage for the acc. pumps, once set up to instructions, it reduced the max volume of fuel on accelaration by 30%. One heck of a difference in performance. Thats it ! My limited knowledge of mechanics could actually understand that! That's really interesting. How often would soldiers be cursing everytime they reved up and mucked up the bands? I probably wouldn't like to be near one if they did it in actually combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpltomo Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 The ones i drove did that as well at first then went to base workshop came back brill. Only real problem i found in fox was the handbrake you would put it on and dureing the night would be bumped so dive into the fox fire her up and floor it about a mile later you were wondering what that burning smell was then remeber to take the handbrake off. As for our normal use of them they were great fast at pulling away so silent with tyres we could sneack up on the enimy. and everyone one who had never seen one before always thought the side bins were escape pods Dont know were they got that from:cool2:. And could get very scarry off road but we normal drove them to the max as a matter of course. Did have one broadside on corners a few times it did look good but was scarry sat in the turret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 theres one on milweb at the moment Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 theres one on milweb at the moment Mark It's a pretty complete one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's a pretty complete one too. Its been a regular on the beltring scene for a few years. Would be nice to own one. But the lack of spares puts me off. Just a question. But why do people paint them in desert stone,as i believe none of them served in GW1 and most were supplemented to T.A. units at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I was told that some were prepared to go out there, but never went (probably because it ended so quickly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpltomo Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) As a ex driver/ guner of a fox in service. We found them ok, fast on road Not so good trying to drive in tank tracks off road they were a bit top heavy. And dam cold in a german winter with the drivers hatch acting as nice air scope. The 30mm raden cannon is a god gun easy to use and very acruite(?sp). The rear armour was a pain to get off it was the drivers job to lay down uder the armour and hold it up that the rest ot the crew undid the bolts and it was very heavy. Wolud love to see helth and safety watch a crew do that now. Din't have that much trouble with the gearboxes main thing for us was drivers leaving the handbrake on and driving off. The only thing most people found strange was the postion of the steering wheel and ther onlyheat for the driver was the two little pipes coming off the steering wheel. But when stoped the engine decks were so warm with the engine runing they could dry a sleeping bag out in minuets. That is were most crews sat when waiting for orders. could go on about the good old days with fox but don.t want to boar you all to death. Oups just realised i have repeted myself a bit. Sorry Edited November 8, 2009 by cpltomo Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Do tell, come on. Spill the beans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 As a ex driver/ guner of a fox in service. We found them ok, fast on road Not so good trying to drive in tank tracks off road they were a bit top heavy. And dam cold in a german winter with the drivers hatch acting as nice air scope. The 30mm raden cannon is a god gun easy to use and very acruite(?sp). The rear armour was a pain to get off it was the drivers job to lay down uder the armour and hold it up that the rest ot the crew undid the bolts and it was very heavy. Wolud love to see helth and safety watch a crew do that now. Din't have that much trouble with the gearboxes main thing for us was drivers leaving the handbrake on and driving off. The only thing most people found strange was the postion of the steering wheel and ther onlyheat for the driver was the two little pipes coming off the steering wheel. But when stoped the engine decks were so warm with the engine runing they could dry a sleeping bag out in minuets. That is were most crews sat when waiting for orders. could go on about the good old days with fox but don.t want to boar you all to death. Oups just realised i have repeted myself a bit. Sorry More in service pics and storys are required from you:D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpltomo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Some more pics of fox in my albums. Will have a good think about my time with fox and write down a little memoirs for you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Din't have that much trouble with the gearboxes main thing for us was drivers leaving the handbrake on and driving off. :argh: I allowed a Ferret owner take mine round the Beltring arena. Coming back through the crowds afterwards the smell was awful and had a good few people asking what was wrong. Edited November 11, 2009 by john fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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