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Diesel Saracen (Saracen '88' ?)


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anyone heard of this curiosity? do any still exist, what engine/gearbox were used? and how did the lower revving diesel affect the speeds available,from the gearbox (if they used the original type),.... that was only efficient at over 2500 revs, high-ish for a 1970's 80's diesel lump....

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anyone heard of this curiosity? do any still exist, what engine/gearbox were used? and how did the lower revving diesel affect the speeds available,from the gearbox (if they used the original type),.... that was only efficient at over 2500 revs, high-ish for a 1970's 80's diesel lump....

 

This sounds like a project done on old Saracens to upgrade them by a company called GKL. I saw one at a BAEE trade fair around that time, they would have had auto box on it I am sure, also braking system was updated. Only aimed at overseas sales I think. Later the company appeared to be based in Singapore....from memory. Think they also displayed Saladin and Ferret simularly converted.

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I think this was covered by either MMI or CMV magazine a couple of years ago, the vehicle was laid up at soemwhere like Withams and was rumoured to be going to a new owner in the States.

 

I'll try to dig the mag and details out later.

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Hi

 

I have a "prototype diesel Saracen" converted in the late 80's by Alvis ? I purchased it a couple of years back and it is used off and on road.

 

It is fitted with a Perkins turbo phaser, it retains the original pre-select gearbox system and cruises on the road at 45mph. It has "air over hydraulic" bakes that are great, the steering is power assisted via a hydraulic pump engine driven, the GCP is also air assisted. The internals/controls were never finished with no lighting or engine dials, only a start switch and oil pressure light !

 

Regards

 

Clive

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Saladin from this series of test vehicles is one of the running fleet at Bovington. Easy way to recognise it, apart from the exhaust noise is the exhaust which comes out on the left hand side. I believe but cannot confirm that it has stalwart brake discs rather than saladin type

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I think this was covered by either MMI or CMV magazine a couple of years ago, the vehicle was laid up at soemwhere like Withams and was rumoured to be going to a new owner in the States.

 

I'll try to dig the mag and details out later.

 

I think Bob Grundy had it I've seen the article in MMI just recentley whilst re reading old mags.

 

Andy

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  • 7 months later...

Hi Alan,

 

I think this was covered by either MMI or CMV magazine a couple of years ago, the vehicle was laid up at soemwhere like Withams and was rumoured to be going to a new owner in the States.

 

I'll try to dig the mag and details out later.

Did you manage to find anything? I am rebuilding a Saracen Mark 3 SA which seems identical to this vehicle. This link was posted by Richard on the Saracen Rebuild post. www.gklgroup.com/saracen88specification_1703.html.

 

A photo of work in progress on "Sarie"

 

Changing the colour from "Appliance White" to the original South African Army colour.

 

Initially Oily was tickled and then Howard picked up on the post with thread #77 identifying the similarities and left all of us wondering? As he said- "The plot thickens!".

 

Regards.

 

Monty.

Sarie interior.JPG

Slide8.JPG

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Hi all,

 

I have written to the editor of MMI after I got his details. He responded that he is not a member of HMVF but would do some digging. I think he is missing out BIG time for not being a member but it remains personal choice.

 

As you say it certainly looks like the Saracen is like the Saracen 88 from GKL, but I have to ask if you’re from South Africa? I seem to recall that in one of our articles many years ago we featured a photo of just such a vehicle that appeared to be abandoned in a government scrapyard or facility that was being used to rebuild the various APCs in use at the time.

Let me know and I’ll see if I can dig out the article.

 

 

Had a look through the back issues and in the Jan 2005 issue Shaun Connors did a feature on BAE System’s Benoni facility and a company called Off-Road Truck and Trailer, both of which were responsible for the refurbishment of South African armoured vehicles of all types (I’ve always fancied a Caspir myself!).

The only differences I can see between the vehicle shown in the article (and the original article on the Saracen 88) are the replacement of the hatches and rifle ports with bullet proof glass direct vision blocks, other than that the vehicles look pretty much identical.

 

 

Now just waiting for a reply.

 

Cheers,

 

Monty

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Hi

 

I have a "prototype diesel Saracen" converted in the late 80's by Alvis ? I purchased it a couple of years back and it is used off and on road.

 

It is fitted with a Perkins turbo phaser, it retains the original pre-select gearbox system and cruises on the road at 45mph. It has "air over hydraulic" bakes that are great, the steering is power assisted via a hydraulic pump engine driven, the GCP is also air assisted. The internals/controls were never finished with no lighting or engine dials, only a start switch and oil pressure light !

 

Regards

 

Clive

 

Hi Clive,

 

Was it similar to the Saracen 88 or what Mark was it? Being from South Africa, I do't know the engine, is the Perkins a four or six cylinder engine? How did they mate the engine and gearbox and was the fluid drive retained? What sort of belt drives are they using and do you have any overheating problems?

 

I have too many questions, let me shut up!

 

Regards,

 

Monty.

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Hi guys,

 

At least the pics proove Monty does not have a rare 'one off' (although rare by UK standards) & that it's fairly safe to assume that a lot, if not all, SA Saracens were of the Saracen 88 type. Also that the one in MMI is not a "sole survivor" by a long chalk.

 

 

Quote by Recymech http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16817-Saracen-Build-up/page12

 

Monty.

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Hi all

I have a story

I bought a saracen mk6 with a gearbox problem. I had a idea of diesel but i wanted to know if it were possible i have converted a stolly to diesel i used a b series cummins 180.

This time i wanted fully auto.

I just happend to have a jaguar 4.2 petrol with twin carbs. !!!! you see where this is going...

I took the engine out and stripped gear box in situ.

After alot of troubble i got it stripped to the foward back transfer a large shaft about 30 inches long sticking out, I cut this down to no more then the last few inches of the spline fron the tbox. I then got a drum/band and gut this down put 4 holes in it and cut a flange grove. I then fitted the engine and auto box made a small prop and bobs the job put it in drive and off we went. This was to see if i could do it with a diesel engine and auto box but things happened and i never did the diesel. Ill try to sort some pics out.

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Hi all

I have a story

I bought a saracen mk6 with a gearbox problem. I had a idea of diesel but i wanted to know if it were possible i have converted a stolly to diesel i used a b series cummins 180.

This time i wanted fully auto.

I just happend to have a jaguar 4.2 petrol with twin carbs. !!!! you see where this is going...

I took the engine out and stripped gear box in situ.

After alot of troubble i got it stripped to the foward back transfer a large shaft about 30 inches long sticking out, I cut this down to no more then the last few inches of the spline fron the tbox. I then got a drum/band and gut this down put 4 holes in it and cut a flange grove. I then fitted the engine and auto box made a small prop and bobs the job put it in drive and off we went. This was to see if i could do it with a diesel engine and auto box but things happened and i never did the diesel. Ill try to sort some pics out.

 

Hi Stal108,

 

I also love conversions and at one point, not knowing the condition of the Rolls motor, I thought of installing either a Ford 351 Cleveland (double the horsepower, 100% better fuel economy, cheaper and better spares availability (I am in SA), half the engine weight, lovely stereo exhaust sound, (I better stop, might just reconsider again!), or a Mercedes six cylinder turbo engine from an agricultural tractor. I would have joined up to the Fluid Flywheel though with a gearbox adaptor, but then you have gearbox trouble.

 

I am not sure that the front bearing on the transfer box would handle all the new loads with the propshaft in there now. I suppose you will have to drive it and see. If it doesn't last, you will be in the market for a gear- and transferbox!

 

Best of luck.

 

Monty.

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