Why the internet is dangerous!

[sirhc]

Here are some examples of why you need to be careful what you read on the internet... whoever wrote these articles didn't have a clue what they were writing about. In fact it looks like it was written by a 10 year old. There is a nice photo of Vince though...

 

1) CVR(T) Spartan

 

http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/armoured-vehicles/spartan-armoured-vehicle.asp

 

"This military vehicle is fully amphibious in order to cope with difficult battlefield conditions and harsh weather conditions"

 

Having driven CVRTs in the rain, I can tell you that the amphibious capability obviously doesn't work, as I have got very wet!

 

"The armoured version of the Spartan can carry up to 4 fully equipped combat soldiers. This armoured system was used in the Bosnian conflict and it has proven its high efficiency when transporting fully equipped troops"

 

I'd quite like one of these 'armoured versions' as I don't think the hull on mine is quite thick enough...

 

2) CVR(T) Scimitar

 

http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/armoured-vehicles/scimitar-tank.asp

 

"The suspension of the Scimitar belongs to the torsion bar type and it has 5 rubber coated wheels that can be used for road operations. The ground clearance of the Scimitar is of 0.35 m."

 

5 wheels? How does that work? Do you have to take them off to drive on the mud? :???

 

There's a load more here too... :argh:

 

http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects.asp

[Lwt Big Cheese]

Reading the title I thought you'd bought something!

[fadedsun]

I am sorry..

 

But I do not think the thin alluminum hull of the CVRT series would offer ANY protections again man-portable large caliber rifles or anything over a .30 caliber weapon.

 

They would get destroyed by IEDs, even small ones. That's the problem when you weigh 7-9 tons...air portability has it's drawbacks.

 

And unlike the bradley or AAV, where you COULD survive multiple RPG hits because the vehicle is much larger and those hits might not damage anything critical..the CVRTs are small, so catastrophic damage potential is increased.

Edited August 28, 2009 by fadedsun

[sirhc]

It's not 'alluminum' it's an aluminium alloy, it obviously works otherwise they wouldn't have used it.

 

http://www.keytometals.com/Article90.htm

[Richard Farrant]

But I do not think the thin alluminum hull of the CVRT series would offer ANY protections again man-portable large caliber rifles or anything over a .30 caliber weapon.

 

They would get destroyed by IEDs, even small ones. That's the problem when you weigh 7-9 tons...air portability has it's drawbacks.

 

 

 

I am afraid you obviously know nothing about the CVR(T) armour and its development, it is not a Coke can. It was designed in the mid-1960's with ballistic protection of frontal arc against 14.5mm Anti-tank rounds and with all round protection against 7.62mm armour piercing ammo at all ranges.. All over protection from 105mm HE shells detonating on the ground or in the air at 30m. Protection from mines exploding under the tracks.

 

The fact that these vehicles have been sold to countries around the world and used successfully by British Forces, speaks for itself.

 

I was involved in repairing and maintaining them for some years for the British Army, so have first hand technical experience of them.

[fadedsun]

It's not 'alluminum' it's an aluminium alloy, it obviously works otherwise they wouldn't have used it.

 

http://www.keytometals.com/Article90.htm

 

Learned something new!

 

 

I am afraid you obviously know nothing about the CVR(T) armour and its development, it is not a Coke can. It was designed in the mid-1960's with ballistic protection of frontal arc against 14.5mm Anti-tank rounds and with all round protection against 7.62mm armour piercing ammo at all ranges.. All over protection from 105mm HE shells detonating on the ground or in the air at 30m. Protection from mines exploding under the tracks.

 

The fact that these vehicles have been sold to countries around the world and used successfully by British Forces, speaks for itself.

 

I was involved in repairing and maintaining them for some years for the British Army, so have first hand technical experience of them.

 

 

Richard,

 

105mm? Impressive, for a small vehicle. But larger artillery shells are more commonly used as IED explosives because Muj figured out that the bigger the bomb and the more you could put together in series the better chance you had of killing infidels. They routinely put 4-5 155mm arty shells in the back of a kia and ram Coalition vehicles, or bury them 2 feet deep in a dirt road.

 

I had absolutely no idea about the AL alloy or the resistance (or is it proof to 14.5 at up to 300m or such?) to 14.5mmx114. I guess with the Uparmoring done they will withstand bigger rounds?

[Marmite!!]

I am sorry..

 

But I do not think the thin alluminum hull of the CVRT series would offer ANY protections again man-portable large caliber rifles or anything over a .30 caliber weapon.

 

They would get destroyed by IEDs, even small ones. That's the problem when you weigh 7-9 tons...air portability has it's drawbacks.

 

And unlike the bradley or AAV, where you COULD survive multiple RPG hits because the vehicle is much larger and those hits might not damage anything critical..the CVRTs are small, so catastrophic damage potential is increased.

 

 

But the Bradley has an Aluminium hull too... "Aluminum 7017" same grade as the CVR(T)'s. Haven't Bradleys also been taken out by RPG's & IED's:confused:

Edited August 30, 2009 by Marmite!!

[honeileen]

Depending the size of the IED you are using you can take out most armour

 

Christian

[Grasshopper]

Nice pic of our Spartan though. That must have been about 2005 as the paint job looks fresh.

[fadedsun]

But the Bradley has an Aluminium hull too... "Aluminum 7017" same grade as the CVR(T)'s. Haven't Bradleys also been taken out by RPG's & IED's:confused:

 

AAVs, bradleys, m113....

 

All have alluminum hulls.

 

M113s and AAVs are rarely used outside the wire because they aren't as well armored against threats like the bradley is. Big IEDs and car bombs still cause losses to brads, despite weighing so much and having a lot of armor.

 

Brads are still used in Iraq..just with lots and lots of passive armor on the side to stop RPGs.

 

The Abrams is very RPG proof and resistant to IEDs, so are the MRAPs with the RPG cage. Heavier+steel+TUSK kit=works.

 

Tusk kit adds 5 tons of 5" thick steel belly armor and more passive armor along the sides.

 

Mraps do well in IEDs because the force of the blast either knocks them over or gets vented away due to the V-shape.

[Snapper]

Keep this going, good info and corrections.

Didn't a Challenger get damaged by an IED with serious injuries to the driver? I am sure Abrams have suffered similarly. Have also seen snaps of wrecked Bradleys. Big enough bangs for your dinar will wreck anything.

MB

[Lord Burley]

Keep this going, good info and corrections.

Didn't a Challenger get damaged by an IED with serious injuries to the driver? I am sure Abrams have suffered similarly. Have also seen snaps of wrecked Bradleys. Big enough bangs for your dinar will wreck anything.

MB

Yes the hull of a Challenger was breeched in Iraq two years ago. The driver lost a leg. He has resumed light dutys.

[Snapper]

Just a general pointer. Topical as these pictures are, we do try not to post anything of a modern 'in combat' nature on the forum for a host of reasons. By all means continue with the post and information, but please draw the line at any images which might be deemed unpleasant.

 

Ta

 

MB

Modding

[paulob1]

the cvrt also uses its speed as a form of protection, shoot and run, and it is faster than most anything else on the battle field, or at least anything with tracks...plus the newer models have been up armoured with more modern type armour, as have the 432's...(and I know the 432 is steel)

 

The fact is nothing is immune from a bomb...no matter how big or strong, there will always be a bomb that can take it out...targeted ied's can just about do for anything and anyone...and if your intent is to cause as much injury and harm as possible because you are a peace loving religious group then the tools exist to allow them to do that...sad but so very true...

[fadedsun]

the cvrt also uses its speed as a form of protection, shoot and run, and it is faster than most anything else on the battle field, or at least anything with tracks...plus the newer models have been up armoured with more modern type armour, as have the 432's...(and I know the 432 is steel)

 

The fact is nothing is immune from a bomb...no matter how big or strong, there will always be a bomb that can take it out...targeted ied's can just about do for anything and anyone...and if your intent is to cause as much injury and harm as possible because you are a peace loving religious group then the tools exist to allow them to do that...sad but so very true...

 

As much as I have tried, I could never get my AAV above 45 MPH without hitting the red line on the engine and risking blowing the pack.

 

I'll definetly race a CVRT if I ever see one...in the ocean, perhaps

[AlienFTM]

As a CVR(T) crewman I was told not to expect the armour to survive a hit by anything bigger than .50".

[fadedsun]

While driving along the ROK-North Korean DMZ a NK DSHK (12.7mm, same cal as the .50, but more powerful) opened up on a Sheridan airborne vehicle and tore it up. Only the speed got them out with no casualties but a holey vehicle.