WW1 finds and discoveries

[Richard Peskett]

Here is another one !, residing on a West Sussex farm where it has been since 1930 with a living van body fitted. Possibly American, worm drive rear axle, a plate I have not seen before with reverse arrows/anchor as a symbol but no makers name ,this also appears on all four hub caps. Rolled steel channel chassis frame, both brakes operating on rear drums. Equal size wheels back and front on 751mm rims ( may be a later alteration as if American would be on imperial size tyres.) 751mm was a less commons size anyway but equal size on a heavy vehicle is quite unusual. Right hand drive. Worm and probably worm wheel are missing. About 5.8 m overall with a 3.8m wheel base. Nearest I have found is this Seabrook ( Standard ,Detroit ) , but there are many minor differences.

Richard Peskett.

[Old Bill]

I think the axle is a 'Sheldon' from the Sheldon Axle Co of Wilkes-Barr, Pennsylvania.

 

 

There is a nice article to be found here:

 

http://199.253.17.48/downloads/new_6_6_05/penn22.pdf

 

Not sure about the chassis though!

 

Steve

[nz2]

Confirm it's a Sheldon trade mark. I have two examples here of worm dive rear axles with those same marks. The oil fill plate is totally different as those here and others seen are all a round disc. The insignia on the bearing caps is another feature not seen here. The front axle is similar to a Wichita I have, the chassis it is similar but the spring mounts are different. Mine also has cast spokes. An identifiable feature of Wichita is a curved front cross member, but not as pronounced as that on a White.

It could be any one of a number of American assembled trucks using propriety parts.

Doug

[Charawacky]

I met a chap the other day who explained he had a WW1 Talbot chassis he was converting to a car which had originally had dual Warland wheels on the rear.

 

I have looking into it and found Talbots were used by T E Lawrence.

 

Here is an extract from Rob Langham:

 

One of the more exciting roles involving the 10 pounder was those that accompanied Lawrence of Arabia. His use of Rolls Royce armoured cars is well known, but less well known is that of the Talbot light trucks that carried 10 pounder mountain guns on their rear bed. These were used from 1916 until what is called ‘the last great cavalry charge’, at the Battle of Meggido in September 1918. There were six Talbots with two 10 pounder guns, later increased to six, one for each Talbot. The Talbots use were the strengthened Talbot SY chassis designed for use in Russia, but even then the 10 pounder with its lack of recoil system caused the Talbot chassis to visible bend and spring back into place every time they were fired.

Lawrence of Arabia described the section as;

 

"An oddment which General Clayton had seen in Egypt and sent down to us in an inspired moment. Its six Talbots, specially geared for heavy work, carried (at first) two 10 pounders with British gunners".

 

He then later described an action involving the Talbot mounted 10 pounders;

 

"The Talbot battery opened the affair, coming spiritedly into action just below our point while the three armoured cars crawled around the Turkish earthworks like great dogs nosing out a trail. The enemy soldiers popped up their heads to gaze, and everything was very friendly and curious, till the cars slewed round their Vickers and began to spray the trenches. Then the Turks, realising that it was an attack, got down behind their parapets and fired at the cars raggedly. It was about as deadly as peppering a rhinoceros with bird shot. After a while they turned their attention to Brodie’s (Talbot) guns and peppered the earth about them with bullets."

Photos of the Talbots show them with no bonnet fitted (in one case covering the 10 pounder gun from the sunlight) and a small canvas cover over the cab, a very interesting modelling possibility. The Talbots and 10 pounders were operated by the Motor Section, Royal Field Artillery – unusual in that 10 pounders were usually operated by members of the Royal Garrison Artillery

 

Here are some pictures:

 

Before conversion to a car

WW1 without 10 pounder

 

It seems a shame from my point of view it could not have been rebuilt with a 10 pounder if it is indeed the same type of chassis.

 

Tom

[Redherring]

Nice story. A while ago, 30 years maybe, the remains of a huge Talbot car was sold at a clearing sale in Colac. The motor was reminiscent of my early Leylands - a pair of large blind heads. I have a photo somewherre and will post if I can find it.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

I met a chap the other day who explained he had a WW1 Talbot chassis he was converting to a car which had originally had dual Warland wheels on the rear.

 

I have looking into it and found Talbots were used by T E Lawrence.

 

Here is an extract from Rob Langham:

 

One of the more exciting roles involving the 10 pounder was those that accompanied Lawrence of Arabia. His use of Rolls Royce armoured cars is well known, but less well known is that of the Talbot light trucks that carried 10 pounder mountain guns on their rear bed. These were used from 1916 until what is called ‘the last great cavalry charge’, at the Battle of Meggido in September 1918. There were six Talbots with two 10 pounder guns, later increased to six, one for each Talbot. The Talbots use were the strengthened Talbot SY chassis designed for use in Russia, but even then the 10 pounder with its lack of recoil system caused the Talbot chassis to visible bend and spring back into place every time they were fired.

Lawrence of Arabia described the section as;

 

"An oddment which General Clayton had seen in Egypt and sent down to us in an inspired moment. Its six Talbots, specially geared for heavy work, carried (at first) two 10 pounders with British gunners".

 

He then later described an action involving the Talbot mounted 10 pounders;

 

"The Talbot battery opened the affair, coming spiritedly into action just below our point while the three armoured cars crawled around the Turkish earthworks like great dogs nosing out a trail. The enemy soldiers popped up their heads to gaze, and everything was very friendly and curious, till the cars slewed round their Vickers and began to spray the trenches. Then the Turks, realising that it was an attack, got down behind their parapets and fired at the cars raggedly. It was about as deadly as peppering a rhinoceros with bird shot. After a while they turned their attention to Brodie’s (Talbot) guns and peppered the earth about them with bullets."

Photos of the Talbots show them with no bonnet fitted (in one case covering the 10 pounder gun from the sunlight) and a small canvas cover over the cab, a very interesting modelling possibility. The Talbots and 10 pounders were operated by the Motor Section, Royal Field Artillery – unusual in that 10 pounders were usually operated by members of the Royal Garrison Artillery

 

Here are some pictures:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]94818[/ATTACH]

Before conversion to a car

[ATTACH=CONFIG]94822[/ATTACH]

WW1 without 10 pounder

 

It seems a shame from my point of view it could not have been rebuilt with a 10 pounder if it is indeed the same type of chassis.

 

Tom

 

That's very interesting. I have a 1914 Talbot type CB 15/20hp model. Nowhere as heavy as the ones pictured, but has the same shaped radiator, diff and exhaust manifold.

 

Here is a photo of Jill and I out last year on the National Veteran rally, Shepparton. Our car was built on the 22nd. June 1914 and went to an orchardist at Kalista in the Dandenong Ranges just east of Melbourne.

 

A streamlined 1914 Talbot (with a bigger engine but the same chassis as mine) was the first car in the world to travel more than 100 miles in one hour. They did 108 miles in the hour at Brooklands.

 

Regards Rick

[GeePig]

I wonder if the guy has checked the history of his Talbot?

 

trevor

[Great War truck]

Looks to be a real bitsa but can anybody identify what this was.

 

 

[GeePig]

Well, the video says it is a Liberty truck, but I am guessing it isn't?

 

trevor

[Runflat]

Dewald

[Great War truck]

Yes you are right as per issue 16 of Charge Utile. How did you work it out so quickly?

What year do you think it dates from?

 

Thanks

[Runflat]

It's probably circa 1928. And the truck in the video could well be one and the same vehicle as that in Charge Utile (albeit with a body transplant). I'm not sure how I knew the ID - I've a vague recollection of having seen some photos of this truck in the past but can't now remember where!

[Richard Peskett]

The said vehicle resides at a small hotel /b & b complex near to the entrance of Monets Garden, Giverney, near Paris.

 

 

Richard Peskett.

[Great War truck]

It's probably circa 1928. And the truck in the video could well be one and the same vehicle as that in Charge Utile (albeit with a body transplant). I'm not sure how I knew the ID - I've a vague recollection of having seen some photos of this truck in the past but can't now remember where!

 

I am sure it is the same one as No16 Charge utile. The rad has had the same repairs. Wooden barrels are a lot more photogenic than the rusty tanker truck it was before. Thanks.

[Great War truck]

The said vehicle resides at a small hotel /b & b complex near to the entrance of Monets Garden, Giverney, near Paris.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]96288[/ATTACH]

Richard Peskett.

 

Ah, the ostrich in the background was in fact a red herring. Thanks.

[Charawacky]

Here is something interesting ww1/ww2? - still there?

 

What is it?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Charawacky

[fesm_ndt]

Any use to anyone?

 

Paire de phares acétyléne militaire U.K collection http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/707214454.htm?ca=16_s

[Charawacky]

For those who are not HCVS members there is an advertisement in the current Historic Commercial News

 

For circ 1914 Staker Squire Chain Drive lorry: complete front and rear axles, rusty but restorable.

 

Whitewebbs Museum, Enfield, North London.

[flandersflyer]

Here is something interesting ww1/ww2? - still there?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]96418[/ATTACH]

 

What is it?

it looks like a gun....:cool2:

[john clayton]

Any use to anyone?

 

Paire de phares acétyléne militaire U.K collection http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/707214454.htm?ca=16_s

Perfect for my Fiat 18bl. I have emailed for the price.Thanks for pointing them out

[john clayton]

Perfect for my Fiat 18bl. I have emailed for the price.Thanks for pointing them out

 

Thye Frenchman says that he has a 1915 radiateur. I already have one but its got issues ( leaks etc). I hope that his is good. Now where did I put my cheque book?

[Great War truck]

He takes cheques? That is a very trusting Frenchman.

 

Worth getting a spare rad. They don't turn up very often. I presume it is the same model?

 

How much were the lamps?

[Charawacky]

For Sale:

 

http://www.prewarcar.com/index.php?option=com_caradvert&view=ad&section_id=1&id=169997&Itemid=432

[Great War truck]

Just seen an ammunition body for one of those sell on E Bay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ebaymotors/1918-Nash-Quad-Heil-Ammunition-Truck-Body-WWI-/111471877363?orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&nma=true&si=6WAhTFpGWYeNYED+80sa+ecH4iM=&forcev4exp=true

 

I see that they fixed it on to a wooden cart chassis. Pity the poor horse that had to tow that.

 

Does not in too bad shape. Nice to see the data plate is still on it.

[martinsaunders06]

I've recently been given to look after a elderly friends fathers WW1 remaining paperwork, Harry Trow grew up in what is now Royal Wootton Bassett and joined the RFC in 1916 , he became a motorcyclist with them and along with various original papers (probably a dozen or so) there are a routine orders of the day , postcards, ration voucher for a troop ship back to Weston -super- mare of all places !, Really interesting tho is a small envelope with the word Richtofen wrote on it and inside is a small dark red canvas fabric square again with word Richtofen wrote on the reverse . John his son now in his late eighties says his father got it from a Australian soldier whilst on his bike? . The fabric square certainly smells and feels correct and along with the other original papers its a really nice bit of history . Martin

Edited October 1, 2014 by martinsaunders06