scimart

Thanks Wally. I’ll revise my research towards the assumption that 990 most likely went to Fort Halstead as indicated by the factory despatch records.

Thanks for all your efforts, Wally and fv. The query regarding 998 was in a different thread where you provided quite a lot of information but probably got lost in other questions. The extract is very interesting - do you think it could possibly be a badly written 999? The loops are all the same size and there’s the beginnings of a tail…. It would make more sense if this was the case as the record certainly shows 7227 as a fire tender, which was definitely correct for 999 (and 998) but not for 990 which, from all evidence noted during the rebuild, shows no sign of conversion.

Thanks for your efforts. It’s possible in my mind that the information that it was disposed of in January 66 could have been due to a typo - I’ve seen photos of NGY998 at FVRDE but my source was insistent that 990 was there although he never confirmed that 998 was on the ledger as well. Do you recall if one of the NGYs was that one? If so, it would add weight to its original allocation to Fort Halstead being correct.

I’ve been told that my 1955 Land-Rover was taken off its establishment ledger in January 1966. Is it possible to check the auction records around that time for any relevant entry? Its for interest only so if it’s a difficult task please don’t go to a lot of effort It’s NGY990

Whilst working on the driver’s door today, I noticed what appeared to be a failed spot weld on the lower part of the door skin. On closer examination and gentle manipulation the hole looked too regular to be a weld. Viewed from the inside, I can see that there are two formed rivet heads where they pass through the door frame and there’s evidence of a similar rivet shaft disturbing the paint layer a little further along. I can see no similar ones on the passenger door. My best guess is that there might have been some sort of badge fitted which could have been removed when it was sold on to the civilian market by the ministry - has anyone seen anything similar or can shed any alternative light on their presence?

Thanks Ted. If your list is reasonably complete, it looks as though NGY990 was not supplied as a true Land Rover factory built fire engine (which certainly aligns with the physical evidence) but Wally's info that it was recorded as a fire appliance is also very compelling. You stated that you had NGY990 recorded in a list as a GP hard top - do you have any more info from or about this listing that might help me? As I said in an earlier post, my best guess is that it was fitted out for some sort of support function for the fire station at Chertsey. I don't suppose anyone could cast any light on these (very vague) markings?

Thanks for taking the time to check again Wally. Ted's information that his records show NGY 990 as a GP (general purpose?) hard top fits well with how it came to me so on the balance of probability it looks like mine was used by the fire service at Chertsey for some unknown duties - possibly some sort of auxillary pump which might explain why you have it as a fire tender. I've spent some time looking for images of the site and I'm fairly convinced that the layout of the water trough, marked circle and hill match the location with the red Land Rover fire engine shown on the film I posted on page 1. Each time I look at the red fire engine I come to a different conclusion over its registration number - the most consistent interpretation is NGY 998 but that shows in Ted's records as being based at Rotherwas which doesn't sound like a site with comprehensive vehicle testing facilities... I was so happy when I deciphered the scrawled factory despatch record as Fort Halstead - but the plot has only thickened since!

Rather along the lines of the two early 80" one titled owner Land Rovers which I saw when working on a telephone at a travellers' site in the early 80s - I bought a hand throttle from one of them but wouldn't have had storage space even if I'd had the foresight to make them an offer...but they were just scrap in those days.

Thanks Ted. A lot of this aligns with my knowledge and assumptions but I'm quite convinced that NGY990 was not built in (or modified to) the full fire appliance configuration as shown in your illustrations. My suspicion is that it was built as some form of auxillary tender - quite possibly with an internally mounted pump as suggested by ruxy, which would fit nicely with the centre PTO fitted when I bought it in '79. This may well explain why Wally's records show it as a fire tender. I'm assuming that you meant NGY990, not NGK990? If so, that fits nicely as mine had a hard top when it came to me.

That first suggestion is a promising possibility - I don't suppose you've any recollection of how it was mounted? Would these hole positions correspond with any memories? (Rear of tub at top of picture)

I did have a feeling that might be the case. I'm still not clear on why NGY990 ended up at Chertsey though when it was supposed to go to Fort Halstead but this will probably be lost in the fog of time. It might explain the lack of info from Fort Halstead but I'm still in the dark about how it was configured. It was a hard top when I got it - I wonder if anyone can suggest how it was equipped - the centre power take-off might provide a clue... I'll start trawling for period photos from FVRDE...

It gets more confusing the more information comes to light! I'm conscious that I might seem to be arguing with your expert opinion but it's in order to clarify things in my mind and I very much value your time and interest. From my point of view, I have stripped the chassis and bodywork extensively and there is not the slightest hint of red paint in even the most inaccessible places so the possibility of it leaving the factory painted red is infinitessably small. There are no holes in the bodywork where the hoses or pump would have been mounted. I have located the chassis number in the correct location which matches all the records and the original looking dash mounted data plate corresponds with this. My best guess is that it left the factory painted green and was perhaps converted to some form of fire appliance - but not a conventional Land Rover fire engine - by the MoS before arriving, assuming there was not a transcription error with NGY998, at Chertsey. I will see if I can track down any more details about NGY998 in case they can throw any light on that part of the mystery.

I'm trying not to sound ungrateful for your help in this matter and I'm sure that was what happened from some point after the Series 2 was introduced but to the best of my knowledge they were certainly producing factory built fire engines before and after 1955 - not least according to the noted early Land Rover authority, the Dunsfold Collection. From their website... "This is a factory-built 86” fire engine from 1956. These fire tenders were built at Solihull and had a full red paint job and extras such as oil cooler and red seats." Did you manage to find anything about the fire engine in the video I posted (NGY998)? Do you think it was filmed at Chertsey? I have to say that I can find no evidence that NGY990 has ever been a conventional fire appliance - not a trace of red paint anywhere down to the metal - although it has had some sort of unidentified equipment fixed to the load floor and a centre power take-off fitted at some point in its first 24 years of life before I bought it.

I'm not sure if this was a question or a statement but I've always believed that the fire engines were factory built and available to order. The parts manual lists all of the fittings and the workshop manual details operation and repair procedures for the pump. In later years, I believe that most if not all fire appliance conversions were carried out by outside firms such as Carmichaels.

Thanks Wally, I think you've only made a typo but to avoid confusion, it's NGY, not NYG Do you know if the filming was done at Chertsey?

What's confusing me is that when it left the factory, in whatever configuration, it was destined for Fort Halstead but seems to have ended up at Chertsey, The chassis number corresponds with the factory records but there are no obvious signs of the normal fire engine fittings. I wonder if this film might offer a possible explanation? Could it have been filmed at Chertsey? At around 1.16 there is a Land Rover fire engine with the registration number NGY 998 - if it is Chertsey, was this number ever recorded there or could someone have mistaken an 8 for a 0 ?

That's very interesting and should be pretty authoritive. I've had a look at the FVRDE on Wikipedia (for what that's worth) and it seems rather ironic that in 1984 the RARDE became connected with the Chobham site. I wonder if my Land Rover was diverted to FVRDE after being despatched to the MoS? It might well explain the difference... Sorry - just saw your last post after sending this reply. Would I be correct in assuming that FVRDE might have converted the vehicle for use at Fort Halstead in some particular role?

Thanks Wally - that seems to be at odds with the Land Rover despatch records but who knows what errors may have slipped in 65 years ago! Could I ask what your source is? Are there any details of how it was equipped or chassis numbers/other details in your record? MatchFuzee - how would I go about checking in the National Archives? Is there an on-line facility and what records would I ask for? I appreciate the quick response from both of you.

I'm trying to research the early history of my Series 1 Land Rover, NGY 990 which, from records at Gaydon appears to have been a Ministry of Supply vehicle sent to the Armaments Research and Development Establishment at Fort Halstead at Sevenoaks. From various posts in this forum, it seems possible that there is some knowledge or some records existing of the NGY registration series. All the other Land Rovers that I've identified with NGY numbers have been originally supplied as fire appliances to MoS sites although there are no signs that mine was ever red or had the various fixtures and fittings of a normal fire engine version. It did have a centre power take-off and several drilled holes and "shadows" where some sort of equipment has been fitted to the load floor though, leading me to wonder if it had been some sort of auxillary fire appliance, such as a foam tender or mobile control centre. Fort Halstead's heritage centre have tried to be helpful but not really come up with anything useful...despite a safety film on their website made there showing a couple of Land Rovers - one a fire appliance of similar vintage (but red) and another slightly earlier green Land Rover bearing a MoS badge -they seem convinced that they didn't have any as on-site vehicles! Would anyone have any further information or suggestions?

Red face time...I realised after posting although I would have recognised Chobham immediately!

Thanks for the warm welcome chaps! I don't suppose mine features in your records Wally? Civil Defence was certainly a use I had thought of. Was that what went on at Chertsey or was that Army related - there is still quite a lot of Army presence in that part of Surrey.

Hello all. I've owned my Series 1 Land Rover since 1979 and assumed it was a civilian version as it has a registration number that appears to have been issued from new (DVLA history only goes back to 1974 with the 5 previous owners not detailed). However, I have a strong suspicion that it was part of a batch sent to the Ministry of Supply and allocated a "civilian" style number - NGY 990. I wonder if anyone here can confirm this or even knows anything about it's possible life after being distributed by the Ministry? I started restoring it (functional not concours) but a little over 10 years ago another hobby took all my spare time and there's still a lot to do. Hopefully, I can give up work within the next year or so and will be able to devote some serious time to the job! The chassis number is 57012124 if it's any help... Martin