Duncan76

Thanks Ron. The latest build date for these Q4s was 1955 as there is a photo in the Rootes Commercials book showing the last Mark 3 Superpoise Q4 rolling off the production line in 1955 - a PDF copy is attached.Rootes Commercials - Henshaw - Nostalgia Road.pdf The AFS contract details for the Q4s, an MoS contract, are on page 49 of The Green Machine, a great book which lists all the AFS vehicles made with much more info besides. This page gives the contract number, date (April 1954), and the chassis number range - they were built in 1954 and 1955. The AFS didn't have any Q4 vehicles prior to this, although the military did. If he is selling, always interested! They are pretty rare now and there may well be others in the growing AFS scene who might be interested, especially if it's in anything close to original condition. Whats the registration mark? Mine, along with many other AFS Q4s, seem to have been stored and registered in 1964 en masse. Some were given B registration marks, others like mine have much earlier marks. Duncan.

Hi Ron - ...ah, that old chestnut... I had my AFS Q4 inspected last year so the DVLA could add the build date to the V5. They were built in the early-mid 1950s, but mine wasn't registered by the AFS until Jan 1964, so it was tax free but not MOT exempt, even though it was allocated and still has a much earlier registration number - 519 ELM. It depends whether it's ex-military or ex-AFS I think. As has been said by Richard, the military parts list says that it's on a plate on the near side close to the spare wheel carrier. If it is a military version, winner! The AFS versions never had a spare wheel carrier because of the coach built lockers under the body, consequently the AFS parts list says that in addition to the plate under the bonnet, "It is also stamped on the top flange of the N.S. (L.H.) chassis sidemember at the rear spring front bracket location.". Surely that's where the body sits - see below?! :undecided: I did ask a chap on eBay who was selling an ex-AFS Q4 that had no body on it had he come across the chassis number, and he said that 'yes' he had and - guess what - "Near-side chassis rail just above some rivets, about 12'' behind the rear wall of the cab." That's where the military parts list says it is.... But, as I said, if is has got an AFS body - good luck - because you won't be able to access it as the gap between the lockers and chassis rail is non-existant! I looked on an early 1960s civvy Commer at Welland a couple of weeks ago, and that had it stamped clearly on the back of the middle of the rearmost cross member, so might be worth a look there. Failing that, the data plate under the bonnet on the driver's side might be the only way... If it's AFS, these never had Ministry of Supply plates fitted, even though they were supplied via an MoS contract in 1954. Hope that helps a bit... Duncan.

Good Work! AFS = Auxiliary Fire Service, nothing to do with the Army, who only drove green goddess in later years. No record of the current registration in The Green Machine (the AFS oracle) so it has certainly been re-registered at some stage. Shame the body is missing, amazing how a few years outdoors can destroy them and let the rot set in! Be good to see how it develops - good luck! Cheers, Duncan.

The hose was a bit of a fluke, someone on the green goddess forum RSOLES popped up and said that he had three lengths! The collecting heads were easier - I already had one on the goddess (even though they never carried them) and the other two came from the same chap that sold me the first one. Good luck with the QX! The brakes I have had lined in stainless steel by past parts - all the wheel cylinders and the master cylinders. Expensive but it means they won't now rust and seize up when it's left standing. The petrol carrier has had the same treatment too. They were done by Past Parts in Bury St Edmonds in Suffolk. If you haven't got one, a parts list and / or workshop manual is invaluable. It can be surprising as I found that the oil filter on the Q4 is the same as an early series 2 Land Rover, and widely available. Cheers, Duncan.

I realised today that I hadn't updated the thread since the brakes were rebuilt back in October. There were a few issues along the way, however, after some fiddling it all went back together well enough with the resleeved cylinders and new rear oil seals. Nice to see it back its own wheels again! It was also a great opportunity to change the coolant, which was a good, rusty colour - it took several flushes for it to clear! I also managed to empty the car which was the temporary storage area for the canvas 6" hose that I bought and also the three collecting heads - as a hose layer, it would have been full of hose and would have carried three collecting hears along with connectors and some 90 degree bends. These latter bits are rocking horse poo now so the hunt continues!

Things to look for - cab rot is the worst. Once the tin worm has struck, it can be expensive to sort although spare panels are still quite freely available. Most of the rest is pretty bomb-proof. If it's ex AFS rather than military, the rear body will be wooden so if it's not been painted and/or kept outside, that might be rotten and need sorting. Insurance - I pay about £90 per annum for insurance through Premium Choice and I pay about £60 on top for recovery with Autohome. Duncan.

In the latter days of the Bedford MKs (I think around the time of the deep refurbishment programme), they did introduce a new centre mounted seating system with individual seat with built in roll cage and multi-point harness in order to carry troops, and these were the only seats that you could use carrying troops. The new MANs have a similar system; the Bedford seating systems did come up for sale from time to time at WSV but I haven't seen them for a while. Just found this weblink to the manufacturer where they say they have made seats for the MANs as well as the older Bedford / Leyland DAF 4t fleet: http://www.revolve.co.uk/Products/Enhanced-Seating-Systems Duncan.

Richard - I came across another Hippo at a show I took my goddess to here in the East Midlands last year or the year before and on reading its potted history and chatting to the owner was staggered that, in line woth what you said, it was issued from TMP to 156 Tpt Regt RCT (a TA tpt regt) for an exercise in about 1980 / 1981!

I love Flux! This mixed messages thing is one of the reasons why I moved my insurance (in addition to them ramping up the cost of insurance each year for no apparent reason leaving me to shop around and call them back to price match....). When I bought my green goddess I asked them did they cover vehicles that size and they were adamant that they didn't do anything over 3.5 tonnes! I checked with them twice, same answer. So I have been happily insured through Premium Choice for the last 4 years, and the RL petrol carrier is now covered through them too. I pay extra for recovery which is provided by Autohome, costs about £60 and is up to 7.5 tonnes. Duncan.

Hurrah! Just received the new V5 today for 519 ELM - with the addition of a note on the front saying that it was declared manufactured in 1955. A slight false start earlier in the week as the first V5 that they sent had the date of manufacture set as 'unknown'. However, a quick call beck to DVLA sorted that and another was issued. So it can now be taxed as Historic and is officially MOT exempt without the need for the plating and testing certificate. Many thanks again to MVT and also DVLA.

Good news! After a couple of weeks of activity, I have been successful in adding the year of manufacture to 519 ELM's DVLA record. Previously, only the date of registration was entered - Jan 1964 - when it officially entered Home Office service. However, the Q4s were built for the AFS in 1954-55 to a contract set by the Ministry of Supply in April 1954. Initially, the DVLA refused to accept the year of registration as 'proof' that it could be taxed as a Historic vehicle - even though that goes against their own advice in INF34 - inisisting that the date of manufacture was the key date. Indeed, the chap I dealt with at DVLA through the MVT apologised for this, saying that the date of registration should have been enough to make it Historic! Whatever, the MVT were superb in getting the date verification inspection done very quickly and efficiently - 5 days from the call to set up the inspection to me receiving the certificate. To be fair, DVLA were also very efficient too, and within 3 days of posting of the certificate, V5 and cover letter, I had a call to check to see whether I was happy with the note they were going to put on the front of the V5! The V5 arrived - with the special note saying that the manufacture date was 'unknown' - however, another call generated another that correctly gives the date of manufacture as 1955 making it Historic (when I get it taxed) and MOT exempt. Many thanks to the MVT and the DVLA.

Well, in a fantastically short period of time, the MVT came up trumps. After joining, the paperwork was processed, a visit made to inspect the Commer Q4 in Suffolk on Tuesday with the verification letter arriving on my door mat on the Friday. Top marks to Chris Brooks, the Verification Officer, and the inspector for such a good service. Anyway, now just got to insure it then send off the letter with the V5 and a V10 to DVLA, and hopefully it will shortly be Historic. Duncan.

Now the hubs are back from Howard having been blasted and primed, they have now been painted in black rust-proof paint ready for re-fitting: Also, a successful day yesterday collecting a few bits and bobs in terms of the kit that it would have carried as a hose layer - three lengths of canvas 6" hose, still rolled up with the last testing date labels on, which will be good for static display, and another couple of collecting heads to add to the one that I already have (it would have carried three, apparently).

Excellent, thanks Howard - they look fantastic! Much better than they were and ready for another 60 years. Heavy? yes they look it, strong stuff these Commers! Duncan.

Well, work on getting the Q4 back on the road continues - there are two strands really. The first is mechanical, with all brakes needing a refurb. The fronts were OK but the cylinders have gone off to Past Parts (http://www.pastparts.co.uk/) in Bury St Edmonds to be re-sleeved in stainless steel as they were seized solid (which is to be expected when it's been stood round in a field for nearly 20 years!). The rears were worse as it's possible that the bearings had been over packed with grease, so the shoes were nicely soaked in grease. The cylinders were equally seized, so they are also being re-sleeved and new friction material applied to the shoes, again at Past Parts. Whilst they're done, in the spirit of a 'proper job', the hubs have gone to Howard down the road to be blasted as they were surprisingly grotty, and they will be repainted before refitting: Aside from that, I have amassed most of the normal service items for a full service - oil filter (the same as early series 2 Land Rovers), oil (SAE 30 Golden Film from Morris Lubricants - http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/golden-film-sae-30-classic-motor-oil.html), plugs, new mirrors (Spafax unbreakable as I have on the petrol carrier and goddess), new auxiliary switches for the dash, anti-freeze to replace the coolant, some gear oil to top up the gear boxes and axles and declutch unit etc. Still got new wiper blades to get once I have the length. Still trying to find an interior light or lens for the cab as the lens is missing - this is the complete version on another Commer Bikini unit and the remains of mine - if anyone has any leads, do let me know! Also, running concurrently with this, is the quest with DVLA to make it tax free. The details are on another thread on here, but needless to say, the easiest way will be to do a proper age verification through the MVT, which will be arranged shortly. Another question - the maintenance handbook refers to a 'carburettor sero starting control' - is this the same as the choke? The Civil Defence handbook shows a choke on the cab controls diagram, doesn't refer to it in the 'operating controls section' but refers to a "choke" later on in the 'starting the vehicle' section. Meanwhile, the operating controls chapter does refer to this 'carb zero starting control' (photo below) but it's not shown on the cab diagram. Any ideas? Was this a feature on military Q4s but not on AFS vehicles? It'll be nice to get it back together and on the road, although I hear very mixed views about the 'driving experience' - some good, some much less so...... :undecided: Duncan.

Thanks Sean - yes, it might be worth screwing it out to see. It's got about 12,000 on the clock, most of which was amassed when it was in service with Clywd Fire Brigade in the 1990s after it was sold off by the Home Office, so compared with some it's quite high mileage! Duncan.

Can't remember now what model the carb is, I'd need to look. Yes, I was told to work on two screws out and did that - I kept turning it inwards until it was all the way in. I suspect a renovation is in order......! Duncan.

Ah yes, hadn't noticed that - I have Army and Civil Defence parts lists. The Civil Defence publication doesn't have a similar list of chassis numbers, just says 'Commencing Chassis No. 38A5585' on the cover - mine's nearly a couple of hunderd higher than that. Not sure they'd accept that anyway - an extract from the manufacturing records of the Glass Guide seems to be what they want for the verification. I'll still push DVLA as to why they won't run with the registration date as they say they will in INF34 though! Duncan.

Yes - just tried to email them, however, the system seems to be down. The lady I spoke to on Friday was adamant that when changing the taxation class, the date of regsitration was almost irrelevant - it's the date of manufacture that counts. However, INF34 seems to be very clear that both count. I might ring again on Monday. Funnily enough, nobody from DVLA mentioned that you can also change it at the Post Office Duncan.

Thanks Tony, Interesting reading. Weird as the DVLA themselves say in INF34 the following: The V5C "..must clearly show that the vehicle was made or first registered before the 1st January 1973.." (presumably now 1974). I have highlighted the first registered because ther lady I spoke to yesterday and those I have corresponded with by email at DVLA all said that the date of registration doesn't count - the date of manufacture is key. Pfffft. Anyway, have now contacted MVT to arrange an inspection so for £40 that should solve the problem once and for all and it can be correctly recorded as being built in 1954 / 1955, thus making it MOT exempt too without the need for the plating and testing exemption. Duncan.

Thanks Chris, Sadly the date of manufacture isn't shown. My Land Rover series 3 109 ambulance has a note on the front of the V5 which says that it was decalred manufactured in 1978 hence it's an S plate. Of course, this stems from the Date in Service which was on the MoD release note and which I used to register it when I bought it. That date differs from the date of manufacture as I have the certificate from the BMIHT which says it was built nearly a year earlier in 1977! The plating and testing exemption for the Q4 from the Vehicle Inspectorate in 1994 states that it was built in 1954/55 hence as a commercial used unladen and built before 1960 it was MOT exempt. So, as the date of manufacture seems to be the 'be all and end all' (unless you register an MoD vehicle in which case it doesn't) the route seems to be to fork out some cash for someone to come and verify the chassis number. Cheers, Duncan.

Ah, yes - the DVLA. And it was all going so well.... Right - the synopsis so far.... I bought an ex-AFS Commer Q4 back in May which is now tucked up in deepest Suffolk awaiting TLC. Pending that TLC, I thought "..wouldn't it be a good idea to get it back on the road legally speaking?". It has a current V5 and isn't on SORN as it was last taxed back in 1995; it also has a plating and testing exemption issued by the Vehicle Inspectorate in 1994. The current taxation class is PLG, so I thought "..about time to change this to Historic..". Although the vehicle was manufactured in 1954/55, it wasn't registered for use with the Home Office until 1964 (although the reg mark issued was not a 'B' plate - it's the old style letters and numbers - other Q4s were issued B plates. Strange). I have a copy of the original Registration Book. Now, the V5 states that the date of first registration was 27th Jan 1964, so well pre-1974. However, through email and telephone correspondance with the DVLA yesterday, they will not budge on requiring proof of the manufacture date to re-classify it as Historic, even though they can see that the registration date easily pre-dates the Historic vehicle cut-off. Great. I have tried to contact the 'Commer and Karrier Club' as listed in the DVLA's own guide on organisations that can date vehicles or confirm the manufacturing date - no luck. Written three months ago - no response, telephone number doesn't work. The British Motor Industry Heritage folks I don't think have data for Commer vehicles. Can anyone recommend a good club that could help in dating the Q4, perhaps by seeing the vehicle in the flesh, confirming the chassis number and providing an extract from the Glass Guide? Cheers, Duncan.

Hi Howard, Looks good - I'll follow with interest! Nice to see another AFS RL on the way to improved health! Took the petrol carrier to its first show a couple of weeks ago - many admiring glances and comments. Cheers, Duncan.

Hi Alec, I have a series 3 109 ambulance and posed the same question on the EMLRA forum a couple of years ago.... The answer was: The front springs - as fitted to 109 diesel vehicles - 265627 (passenger side) and 276034 (drivers side) The rear - 272967 (drivers side) & 272968 (passenger side) are the part numbers which are classed as 'heavy duty'. These were the same for series 2A and series 3 vehicles apparently, the only change to the suspension system being the addition of the anti-roll bars on later series 2As and on all series 3s. I do know of someone who fitted proper 1 ton springs onto the rear of his series 3 which apparently worked well, improved the ride and meant that the vehicle actually 'sat up' at the back rather than adopting the 'tail dragging' stance that these ambis tend to have. His reasoning - which I get - is that even the heavy duty springs fitted were never really intended for taking the permanant load the size of the ambulance body, hence why they sag quite quickly. HTH. Duncan.

Dunno really, I just assumed that running rich would be the cause as it has been in the past. The air mixture screw is now all the way in, however, there are rather smaller clouds of dark fumes under acceleration than there were before I altered the screw over the course of the weekend. It may be the timing is out slightly, it may be other carb problems I guess. A gas analyser? Erm, no....! What might that tell me? Duncan.