soupdragon

Thanks Rustexpert for posting your pic.. They look pretty much the same as the Aussie ones I am trying to find - (pic below also posted in wrecker forum), Probably have the same pin locations and cross section. May have some casting differences - date location, part or FV number?, but probably not noticeable to the untrained eye. Thanks all for the replies .

another pic..

Anyone down under have some cast steel 'hold fasts' (ground anchors) that they can measure? I am considering getting some cast locally'ish because I can't imagine shipping them from Aus will be practical or affordable. I already have a pile of hex pins in the UK awaiting postage - not going to like that bill either!

Maybe the lifting points weren't trusted... ...and the "casualty" isn't very far off of the ground either. Nice pic of two brand new ones though! Would be nice if a moderator could fix the original thread title..

Came across another pic.. White numbers on black "AMF" plates dates these trucks to the initial "179 - NNN" purchase in 1971. (1973 purchase trucks had green numbers on white "ARMY" plates 25_NNN) Two Australian M816's using the standard US issue sus tow kit of Hollebone [towbar motor vehicle] with chain clamps to the front axle and whiffle tree [bar lifting] chained to the chassis ends instead of the front bumper lifting shackles which is the US method. With the later 70's introduction of the Aus made Mack trucks, the 816's were fitted with the higher sus tow subframe incorporating the Holmes tow gear and elevated second pintle hitch. Whiffle trees were 'generally' dispensed with and Hollebones only used for flat towing. The green is nothing that I did - appears to be some kind of advertising marker automatically added ???

Found an OD article that says Marines is a common misconception - not made for USMC but by USMC - US Metal Container Co., though it also says that it's by USMC(Co) if it's in the manufacturers line on the underneath, yet 'for' the Marines if it's on one side at the bottom......? Still a little confused. Have now seen a couple of pics/references to WATER cans like this. Still don't know how long this production lasted before adopting the large screw lid.... Would be interested to see how they were converted after the war ("'cause they leaked less than the screw type"!!). I can't see any patching around this one - unless the whole top was changed - which seems a little OTT as the top part is by way the most complicated part.

Just 'saved' this Jerry can from a hot rod flea market... because I'd never seen one like this before. Looking for info/significance and maybe find it a good (appropriate) home! The paint - as you can see is many layers thick and peeling, but the can itself is very straight and solid. Even the lid seal seems fine.

Chevpol - have you thought of sussing out the Steel Soldiers forum? It's the US based MV forum and has lots of former servicemen as well as weekend soldiers, so there is a good chance that some of them will remember the 1500 Ram. I had the civi version (2500) as a work truck - it's retired now, but still drive it around locally for the farm. Love it. I'm off to the big MV meeting in Georgia today, and will be crashing with a former USAF chappie. I'll ask him about them. H

Dims are approx but I think you can get the idea from the first pic. I have made these from 3/4" re-bar, coil springs and crowbars - round or hex. Hook 'point' is NOT sharp - it's for picking up shackles etc., not spearing your foot when you don't see it in the long grass, a-la Tom and Jerry style. Hope this helps.

Robin - back to post #30, extra brackets 'Lashing staples' - if your truck was Airbourne then potentially these were ratchet strap hooks to secure the tilt frame, windscreen and tilt when C-130'd. A-la the 2 PARA FRT's (TuckAway wreckers). Does it just have one pair halfway down the body - may have been dropped somewhat empty where as the FRT's had three pairs of staples; front, middle and back and were dropped full of kit.

Just for the sake of collecting all "Scotch" info under this one thread, I found these pics recently on the US Government Liquidation auction site "GL". Two Navistar wreckers (Navy) up for grabs in California. They carry the double wide "Holmes" type Scotches.

Trevor - it doesn't matter, what you are trying to do is stop the wheel turning if it has no/poor brakes and/or keep the wheel stationary over the spade so it pushes into the ground. Stopping the scotch from moving relative to the vehicle as a whole is the real goal. The more inline the teather is to the wheel, the less it will try to twist under the tyre reducing effectiveness but as you can see from the Scammell pics, they use a long teather that goes way back on the chassis so the angle is reduced. I just used the wheel to change the direction of the attachment - like a snatch block for side pulling - as I have a stout front bumper with shackle points. For me, going back to the chassis wasn't an option - too much stuff in the way. Getting the length of the teather correct is however critical, that is why the Scammell vid is a great example. Note that they just added a couple of shackles. For me - I use two chains each with a grab hook, that way I can adjust as necessary. Maybe one day I'll make a couple of cables...

Robin. Once 'cleaned' are they to be repainted (MoD) or are they 'green' enough? If so, is there a suitable plastic primer?

Further conversation... looks like the wrecker ones were part of the 'Holmes' supplied stuff (came with their own chains), wider for the dual rears, where-as the 981 ones look like Scammell ones - single wheel and needed that cable tether. Question 1 is, were they intended to be used on the front wheels just like the Scammell? Not totally familiar with the 981 - are there brakes on the front axle? If not, scotches could have been used to "stop" front wheels, like wheel chocks or spades to aide winching. If for the front wheels, I'm guessing the cable hook went up to the chassis. Second question relates to the earlier comment of hard/soft sides of the scotches. Not sure if this was so as the teeth of the 'Holmes' ones would be needed to dig into hard surface (assuming the bolt on teeth were harder - therefore bolt on..) or the teeth could dig into a wooden baulk/sleeper which has a deformable surface to grab any grit or surface friction of the tarmac. If "hard surface" use was to turn them over they would have acted as skid shoes and somewhat ineffective. For soft ground, the whole front edge would go into the ground as a spade. I am not sure if the Scammell ones were only used spade down or turned over? I'm guessing the stiffener on the under side would potentially damage the tyre...? Total tangent... [is the hook on the M.A.N SV®'s hyd spades for grabbing timber so not to damage roads?] Interesting to note that manual spades were the US alternative for wreckers (other than T's with the Holmes gear) to Scotches. From the Wards of WWII, right up to M936's of the 90's, even the HEMTT wrecker (still in use) has them, though they are positioned by the hiab rather than manually.

Assuming that's the Scammell vid I mentioned in post #3? Found another Holmes Scotches pic.. This was a USAF '80s civi wrecker up on a Govmt auction last year. No idea why it had those scotches on the deck as the truck had hyd spades on the rear!

Hmmmm - odd trailer. Looks like a "eager Beaver" type tilt bed bumper pull trailer that has been modded to be pulled by a fifthwheel!

Dave - back to your original post.. Hope you will post that pic if you ever find it! I'd Imagine that the scotches in a pic on a 'T' were probably lifted from a Scammell crew of otherwise acquired... Seeing as the T is a 6x4 heavily ballasted tractor, I can't imagine they ever ventured too far from a decent surface - especially with a Rogers in tow, therefore recovering dead tanks would be winched onto the trailer against the brakes of all those wheels... I realise that these Scotches went the way of B&W tvs when they came out with hydraulic spades, but they can be utilised on winch tractors that don't have spades quite easily. I have hooked up mine to the front bumper with a chain that comes up and around the back of the tyre. Any solid chassis point would be ok, even a chain just wrapped around. Critical factor is the length of the teather and therefore the positioning of the tyre (and therefore the vehicles weight) on the scotch inorder to push it far enough into the ground.. as per the vid. The Scammell in the vid used a long teather to the chassis behind the front wheel but I have a stout bumper infront that I have used. Front Right with initial teathering to "tie down" point, later changed to "lift" point as it is more inline with tyre. Naturally limiting factor is size of "spade" portion or 'toe' of scotch and the capacity of the ground to resist tearing. Front left tyre starting to push 'spade' edge in ground.

Dave - were these the ones you were referring to? Dims (in "old money" - sorry) from genuine examples liberated from 'beer money' skip at Borden! Weld diag (all plate)

Dave - were you referring to the REME scotches as per Explorer in this vid:- or are you thinking that there are different Yank ones specifically that went with the T? Howard.

Here's a pic of Johns with bigger tyres. Little mod reqd on the lower wing/mud guard position and removal of tyre chain box for bigger spare. ... but it does look incredibly meaty with these tyres. I think I am going to keep mine as near stock as I can to preserve military authenticity.

Hey Robin Yes, I did a quick 20' spray job (ie., don't get too close) with some of that Behr exterior stuff from Home Depot - got the right Govmnt colour code. You know how the yanks love a parade... well I did this for last years "Good riddens day" - I was the 100th anniversary parade in our town, second oldest in the States and as it was approx 100 since the first World War so...... Not sure if the inverted Chevron was appropriate for USAF trucks, but it's easily removed if I get so advised... I did find out that USAF's 819 Red Horse (airfield construction etc.) used these in the Gulf... Just so happened that they were also stationed just up the road from my home in the UK, at RAF Weathersfield '79 - '90. Hummermark - yes, there is a guy in Vermont that has one on 14.00 supper singles and they really fill the wheel wells better, problem is, even with the stock 22.5's, the fifth wheel is still up there in the clouds - bigger tyres would make it worse! ref: [Rapid Engineer Deployable, Heavy Operational Repair Squadron, Engineer (RED HORSE) squadrons provide the Air Force with a highly mobile civil engineering response force]

Don't know if any of these have made their way into private hands in the UK/Eur yet, so here are a few of pics of mine that I got last year. It's a '94 as best as I can make out. Originally temporate camo - but since my LR 101 wrecker is green/black I decided to go sand box - well, I got to do something with that desert cam net I picked up at Beltring a few years ago! Haven't had to do too much to it - a little cosmetic stuff here and there. I also stowed a pair of scotch anchors so that I can utilise the winch a little more. ...next step is finding the right trailer for it. (M870 's aren't coming out too often - and if so, not cheap!)

Pics of the rear. Showing added sus-tow frame and body 'stop ends' also additional lighting. Second spare tyre holder (next to Jerry cans) was not common. Not known if this was an inservice mod. Combined welding bottles and reinforced rear steps - are other differences to US trucks. Removed bumperettes and alternative trailer hitch may be a civi mod.

I am researching the Australian Armys AM General M816 wreckers as used by the RAEME. I have been in contact with a few museums, ex Recy Mechs and others but am interested in getting a broader picture of the modifications that were made to the 816s. Some of the modifications were standard for all wreckers, however there were also a lot of changes/additions that were done by specific units - even down to a singular truck. Some of these mods were: Additional warning/marker lights, lockers and stowage bins, bypass oil filter, TAC plates, 2nd spare tyre, Australian Jerry cans, suspended towing brackets etc., etc. I don't yet know much about the alternate kit - some stayed as US issue, other British/Empire stuff was substituted. If anyone out there (other than those who I am already corresponding with) would like to chip in with any info - I'd really appreciate the help. I am fabricating as much as I can get info on, though sourcing some of the added lights will be an issue. Cheers. Howard Some examples of differences noted from pics etc.

Paul - its Howard (different avatar!)... just found this older thread of your truck at Pucka. Some of the details that I have been chasing are answered in these old pics! Had fun last week putting 1.515" holes in 3x1.5' steel for the rear sus tow bracket. Now pocket welded to the 4x4 - 1/4" wall tube. Found some steel for the bypass oilfilter shield and you pics help in locating it. Also notice a chequer plate cover the right side rear tackle space - checking other pics to follow that lead for fabn. I am amassing a whole load of pics and info following research on the differences between various Aussie M816s and factory issued to the US Army. Differences appear to be in three seperate catagories... i/ Mandatory and standardised - Cummins bypass Oil filter (behind air filter), rear sus tow sub-frame and Holmes tow gear [when Macks came into service] with second - raised pintle hitch, Acetylene bottle relocation, additional signal/marker lights, 'stop ends' to rear body, reinforcement to rear steps, MoD plate in cab, made in Oz water Jerry can, "WIDE LOAD" on front bumper, "Caution Left Hand Drive" on back body, and of course TAC Plates and holders.... ii/ Mandatory/necessary but local design - relocation of beacon, fire extinguisher location,... iii/ End user comfort and whim! - added drive/working lights, driver side behind-bumper stowage, trolley valve, "deely boppers"[bumper guides], rear bumperette removal, split shifting transfer gear stick extension, fridge, seat swap, added lockers and tool boxes, roof rack/cage, water tank, exhaust extended up/back.... Will do some kind of publication when I am finished with the research and conversion of my 816. One example of 'local' build...