T8Hants

Several bikes made after mine have turned up in India, presumably shipped off for the far eastern theatre, so I have often wondered why mine didn't go as well.

On 2/3/2024 at 7:11 PM, rewdco said:

Engine number 68961 (or 68981, difficult to see). As Ron said, contract S/6680 was supposed to be a contract for 8.000 bikes (frame numbers 53418 - 61417 and "matching" engine numbers 63418 - 71417). But the war was "over" when only 5200 bikes had been built, the rest of the contract (frame numbers 58618 - 61417 and "matching" engine numbers 68618 - 71417) was cancelled. This cancellation happened to other motorcycle manufacturers as well. I'm not a Triumph specialist, so I would like to compare with the situation at Royal Enfields. They were building the 5.000 WD/COs for contract S/3357, but for the same reason, after having made 1.500 of the 5.000 bikes, the contract was cancelled. At that time Enfield still had enough parts in stock to build most of the remaining 3.500 bikes! And that's what they did, they made a batch of 2.834 "civilianised" "post war Model CO" motor cycles, which were all sold on the export market. The home market had to make do with refurbished ex WD bikes. This was the "export or die" period...

Now... Could Triumph have done something similar I wonder? I guess that when the contract was suddenly cancelled, they also must have had a considerable stock of parts. Did they put them together and sell them on the export market as well? This could explain why your bike turned up in India. Just a thought...

The frame number is a mystery to me...

I have just found this post, My Triumph 3HW, is also from the last WD contract and is TL 54192 Engine 64192, made Feb 1945.  My Triumph was not shipped off to India, nor was it ever issued.  It has been looked at by those with more knowledge then I and has several features that would indicate it was taken back into Triumph sprayed black, reappeared on the civilian market late 1946, bought from an Isle of Wight dealer, used for 9 months in 1947 and then put away till the late 80's with a total of 5009miles on the clock.  So I believe  Triumph did exactly the same thing as Royal Enfield.

On my original 1945 brake cable the round ball, isn't a round ball, but a rounded square, so it would fit through the flats of the eye bolt.

Seems a good contender and at least it proves the term was used, as well as 'School of Military Engineering'.  I suspect the E.T.C. was a department or building within the complex.

THANKS !!

I have a 1950's Phillips 'Trade' pattern army bicycle.  I noticed the other day that stamped into the handlebar cross piece is E.T.C. 5, presumably the depot that claimed it as theirs.  Trying to find a fit for the abrieviation E.T.C., the best I could come up with was Engineering Training Center.  It could be 'Electrical' of course, or 'Training Camp'.  Anybody know?

thanks.....Gareth

Thank you both for your replies, I have now finally beaten my gearbox into submission aided in my struggle with an article I found online that recomended using the 1st gear position rather than 4th as per handbook. It also explaine the positioning of the cam plate with greater clarity than I had found to date.   I have put the link to the page here as it may help someone else in the future.  It has worked for me.

https://www.hermit.cc/tmc/technote/gearbox/index_cam_quad/index.htm

I have now rebuilt the gearbox twice now, since the problem was detected, both times without success, as its either stuck with a false neutral between 3^rd and 4^th and won’t shift.  This was with the cam plate positioned at 4^th as per handbook> rebuilt it again with the cam plate in the neutral position as suggested by a YT video, with the result I can change between neutral and 1^st, but it won’t change up to 2^nd and above.  There was no visible damage to the cam plate or gears.  Are all the cam plates made of Mazak?

As the bike was only taxed for 9 months in 1947, I am assuming the  5009 miles on the clock is genuine.  All bearings were replaced during the rebuild and I didn't notice any undue wear on the cam plate.  It is possible I did not position the plate correctly when I put the box back together.  It has changed up and down in the lower gears quite happily several times, it was only when it went up to 4th that it hit a false neutral coming down again, which was fortunate as we had to push it home.  No other gear could be selected afterwards.

My 3HW went out for its first test ride since 1947 yesterday and although it performed well in the lower gears going around a field, its brief foray onto the highway to check 3^rd and 4^th resulted in a permanent false neutral between them, when my test pilot attempted to change back down to 3^rd.  I understand false neutrals are not unknown in Triumph gearboxes.  Any suggestions what to look out for when I disembowel the naughty thing?

My mate said they didn't want to give away the exact positions of the collapsing perimeter, by burning them as they arrived, also burning vehicles would have hindered movements within that perimeter, but he was expressly told not to burn his lorry.

20 minutes ago, MILCYCLIST 3826 said:

Hi  Your machine is to give its official designation is a Bicycle Trade Pattern  Heavy Duty.  From my archives it was introduced in 1952/53 and to date I have traced at least four contracts.   In regard to frame numbers I have three sequences which are for different contracts  listed  in my frame number register  -   3 or 4 digits and  and six digits with the letter N or NP.    A  MK V1 model does not exist however a number of collectors and dealers are continually advertising there machines as a MKV1.  The last mark of military bicycle was the Mark V & Mark V*.

If you require any more information please let me know.

Regards  Paul

Hi Paul, you can never have enough info, so if can pass anything elso on I would be interested, a PM would do fine or on here.  The late date would acount for the style of makers badge, and the paint under the botttom bracket where it has been preserved by oil and mud is deep bronze green, a colour usually thought of as post war.  I plan to restore it as the rust has bitten the paint too much for it to be a pleasant patina.  Nice to know the bike and I are the same age.  I think I got it from a green-sheet ad.

59 minutes ago, welbike said:

26" wheels, is always postwar, wartime only had 28" 

Hope this helps,

Lex

This is what I am begining to discover, although I am slightly confused by the four digit frame number.  I was under the impression by the post war period I should be looking at a 6 digit minimum with prefix letter.  Am i right in thinking this is a Mk VI model?

Hi all,  what’s the collective thoughts on this Phillips military bicycle, it would appear to have a low serial number of 1181, but the alloy makers badges I thought were well into the late 40s early 50s.  It is shod with 26”x2” 1 1/3” tradesman’s tyres and is about a 25” frame.  The only other markings are either an O or a D stencil painted on the rear mud guard and a very poorly stamped ETC 5 on the handlebars.  I have had it so long, I can’t remember where it came from, but it is just possible it was from the Enfield factories, but I am not certain.

Just as an aside, I was watching a TV documentary about the retreat out of Burma in front of the Japanese advance, in which a gunner said they were forced to bury their guns as there was no boats available to carry them across the Irrawaddy (I think it was).   So I wonder if enterprising scrap dealers have ever found them, or did they just bury the breech-blocks, which seems more likely. Or perhaps they were retrieved during the subsequent re-capture, who knows, but burying large objects during a retreat seems to me to take too much time.

The point being that once you 'donate' you give up title the object, if it was 'on loan' that is different kettle.  Why have the IWM given up this potential income, have they had the good sense to loan the items albeit indefinitely, what caveats if any are in place should the American museum fold?

27 minutes ago, earlymb said:

Was it parked somewhere behind that tangled mess? 😀

If only, and I didn't get the crane jib either

My Morris Commercial C9/B came from Harry Pounds

1 hour ago, Richard Farrant said:

OK. Try removing the drag link from one end then you can ascertain if it is the steering box. Then with the front wheels off the ground, push the wheels round lock to lock to see if that is where it is tight.

That sounds like a plan, get the silly season out of the way and I will make a start on those ideas.....Ta!

15 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

I assume you have the front wheels off the ground to check? If not, I would check your tyre pressures first. Then check oil level in front swivels and steering box if not done already.

Sound advice Richard, but the lumpin' great thing has always been heavy on the steering, my mate reckons it is almost as heavy as his Matador and as I am not getting any younger now is the time to cure it.

Hi all, the steering on my Morris C9/B is very heavy, and it has been suggested that the steering box may need a few extra shims, as its not the original.

So I just wondered if anyone has a picture or drawing of the shims used so I could make a few in advance of stripping the steering down, unless you wise ones know of another cure for heavy Morris steering.

Thanks......Gareth

Thanks Adrian, they came up first attempt - every days a school day.

I have had this 1952 British saw for years and as I am in the middle of a saw sharpening frenzy it came to light with some of the others.

So I was wondering is this a bit of M.V. kit, or just general issue?

I am also trying to find a supply of the type of buckle used on the sheath, or if anyone knows their correct name, I want 2 or 3  1" ones for another project, but as I don't know what they are called I haven't found them on line as yet.

Ta in advance....Gareth

Its case of the old saw, 'buy the item not the story'

1 hour ago, Citroman said:

I wonder they didn't set more vehicles on fire?

They weren't allowed to, there were orders strictly forbidding the torching of vehicles, according to my old workmate.  Thoughts about that are 1, not to give away positions, 2, not to create an even greater impression of defeat, panic and disorder then was absolutely necessary.  My mate was told park-up drop the sump plug, seize the engine, shot or two through the radiator, walk away.

I am almost certain that is a Bofors loading tray.