Jump to content

Foden7536

Members
  • Posts

    57
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Everything posted by Foden7536

  1. Good morning, Ive attached a couple of images of my Foden laying out of use and it clearly shows these sheets. In the rear of my cab there are two 1/2” holes where I assume these “curtain rails” ran, the front canopy cross member has been replaced in the past so this detail has been lost, but I intend to put these back when I am at that stage of my restoration (which reminds me I really must do an update) The close up image of my wagon appears to show the rail running horizontally, and you can see the sheets hung over it at the rear. Hope these are of interest. David
  2. What a super photo, thank you for sharing. The wagon nearest the camera is a 5 ton Foden, whilst I would say the one further away is a Clayton. The foden is similar to mine, albeit mine has (or at least should should have) a tipping body, whilst the one in the photo isn’t a tipper interestingly the Clayton has Bauly wood block wheels, but what is more intersting to me personally is how the Foden’s sheets have been pulled back against the front of the cab, I have a photo of my foden during its Devon County Council days with the sheets tied back in this manner and I assumed this was a “Devon CC thing” but seeing this makes me think that I was wrong! Thank you for posting David
  3. You’re not hijacking it at all, it’s all interesting and relevant stuff, thank you for the information David
  4. Thank you for those thoughts Andy, The correct dovetail cutter was available off the shelf from MSC, so tooling wise this wasn’t an issue. The original keyways weren’t at exactly 90 degrees to each other, the advantage of getting it done at Inca was the crank sits easily within there machines capabilities and with the modern electronic dividing head the keyways could be cut more accurately, not a second out from 90 degrees, this has meant that the gear blank (the keyway slots in which I had wire eroded) can be accurately made and fits in any of the four possible positions. Working on a friends Burrell Traction Engine we found that the keyways aren’t very accurate and the gear only fitted in one position, each keyway having been scraped and blued to fit - I guess this was when being “a fitter” as a skilled job.
  5. Good evening, thank you for your kind remarks. I am only a hobby machinist with a workshop in the garage, for “real work” I am a central heating engineer, I have friends who offer me advice and guidance but I basically make it up as I go, and as the scrap bin would testify things rarely go right first time!!! The keyways and keys are outside my machine, and personal capabilities. They are dovetailed into the crank, these were very worn and working within the dovetails, a local(ish) firm (Inca Geometric in Charing - near Canterbury) recut the keyways for me on their massive CNC mill, the keys were then made by a friend (Paul Smith Engineering at Gaza, Sevenoaks Weald) they are ground - and I don’t have a surface grinder - nor the experience of using one! There is a gear cluster carrying the two crankshaft gears which slide along these keys for high and low speed, as well as “out of gear” this needs replacing as now the crank has been ground it’s too loose on the shaft (the old was beyond saving as it was very worn in the keyways too) I am going to have new gears cut, but before I can get these I need to sort the second shaft so I can measure the gear centres etc (I also need to save some more money as they’re not going to be cheap!) I hope these photos illustrate the key arrangement David
  6. Good evening all, just to confirm I haven’t dropped off the planet, Foden work progresses but everything seams to take such a long time! So, back in September 2020 (crikey) I stripped the crank and found it was in need of major work, this is now complete and so I thought it was an opportunity to update this. As the old main bearings were very worn I needed to ensure the alignment of the crankshaft was correct, I made aluminium blanks to go in the cylinder bores, the neck rings and the trunk guides, all with a 1” hole bored in the middle, so if all three lined up and I could feed a bit of inch bar through the holes it would prove the centre line of the piston / piston rods. The below photos show this set up for the high pressure, I did the same for both bores. Once this was done I could put another piece of bar at 90 degrees to these rods, to set the position of the crankshaft, however when this was in place it didn’t look correct, this “crankshaft” was too high in relation to the old main bearings which I had put in place to give me an idea of the set up. I spoke to several people involved in Traction Engine restoration work, and the opinion of them was that the centre line of the crank should be bang on centre line of the pistons. When measured mine had a difference of 3/8”, being below centre line, again I spoke to several people who all said that this is incorrect, and I started looking into correcting this “mistake”. I am in contact with a chap in Australia with a couple of Fodens and I was explaining this to him, and he kindly did some measuring on one of his Fodens and again found the centre line of the crank to be exactly 3/8” below centre line of the bores, his foden being a lot later than mine suggested that this wasn’t an error after all. After doing more research I found that this is called “desaxe offset” (desaxe meaning “unbalanced” in French) so there isn’t a true “top dead centre” so to cut a long story short(er) I kept the crankshaft 3/8” below centre line of the bores, and more alumnium billets bored to take my “alignment rods” (a snug push fit) to hold everything in position. Having set and finalised the position of the crankshaft centre position I decided to line bore the newly cast bearings, however I had never done any line boring, and hadn’t a line boring set up, so my next task was to build a line boring machine. I had seen these in use before but I didn’t like the feed method on others, some use a ratchet type feed, which I felt would give an interrupted cut. It was whilst using my mill that I came up with the plan of using a align power feed unit as this is variable speed, does forward and reverse, as well as rapid traverse, so a unit was purchased, I then made myself a lead screw, boring bar etc. To power the cutting tool rotation I used a variable speed drill. The actual boring bar was initially run in two bearing blocks, each held on plates attached to the boiler hornplates, however I found that I was getting too much “whip” on the bar and a poor surface finish so I ended up having to put a third bearing in the middle to keep everything rigid. IMG_9289.MOV I experimented with speeds and feeds until I was happy with the finish, and considering this is all home made I was very pleased with how it was progressing…. …. so well in fact that one Tuesday having a day off from work I was on the final cuts on the second bearing, it was a slow process with lots of measuring, boring, measuring, boring etc but I was aware that I was getting nearer and nearer to size. My final measuring revealed that I had 0.015” to come out, so I moved the tool but in my haste and excitement to finish the job I forgot that I had measured the diameter and I needed to move the tool by half the amount…. I realised my mistake when it was about half way through the bearing, and sure enough to my horror when I measured the bore I had taken too much material out, so I had no option but to go back to the foundry, get another bearing cast (and big lumps of bronze cost!) and start that bearing all over again! I’ve kept the scrap bearing on the wall in the shed to remind myself to double check !!! Once these were finished I could drop the crank in with more aluminium pieces to ensure the “left / right” position of the crank was correct, spacers made, and the sides of the bearings faced to give clearance. With the main bearings eventually finished my attention turned to the bearing caps. These are cast iron, but one has been replaced with a fabricated one, so I decided to replace them both with new cast iron ones. Once again my friend Roger made me a pattern and I undertook the machiningA quick coat of “service colour” and finally this evening the crank was dropped into the crank pit hopefully for the final time! It was very encouraging to be able to turn the crank and everything rotate nice and freely, so hopefully it’s not too far off being somewhere near correct. I hope this update has been of some interest.
  7. Good evening Clive, and May I say what a thrilling message to get! I’d love to see any photos of the Devon CC wagons, and likewise and other details you may recall from your Grandfather. I have sent you a private message, if you can’t access it for any reason please let me know. I look forward to hearing more, any information which can put the history of the wagons ive attached two photos of Devon wagons I have, the first is a Garrett with the early “Devon County Council Northern Div” lettering (and in small script you can just make out what looks like “...Stone Surveyor” - which you’ve filled in some information on already!) and the second photo is a later Foden 10530 of 1921 painted in the later livery of “Devon County Council” as according to my records Northern and Southern (Barnstable and Tavistock offices) combined in 1921 so vehicles after this date carried this lettering. Hope this is of interest, David
  8. Good morning Peter, Happy new year too! The copper tube i used was the same OD as 1/2” steel tube (.0825”) so could take a BSP thread, I had one length of this, but now I’ve only been able to find thick wall copper tube which is 1/8” wall, so the OD is 0.75” so sadly not large enough to take a thread. Your comment on refrigeration grade copper is interesting, do you know what wall thickness this is? I've attached two photos, the first shows an original Foden feed water heater coil from a albeit slightly later wagon removed from a corroded casing during restoration of a friends Foden, and my newly manufactured version... David
  9. Thanks Steve, Work on the Foden hadn’t stopped - just my reporting had! I shall Endeavour to do better with keeping it updated The copper came out so much better than I was expecting I was amazed myself to be honest! At a friends farm we have a huge radial arm drill, I borrowed the table (a stonking great lump of cast steel weighing god knows how much but several hundredweight) as I know this would give me a stable bench to work from, and plonked it in the middle of the shed as I would be walking round it all day bending the pipe. To the bench I clamped (using the T slots in the base) a piece of plate to which I had welded a piece of steel pipe of the right outer diameter to suit the internal diameter of the coil (this was sticking upwards) This plate had a hole in for the end of the pipe to stick down through and a second piece of pipe welded at 90 degrees to the vertical piece of pipe to pull the first bend over (where the feed water pipe comes into the heater straight and then turns to start to form the first coil. Is this making sense so far, I appreciate my description isn’t the clearest? Using a large propane / oxygen heating gun I got a section of pipe about 18” long cherry red and then immediately dunked it in a barrel of cold water to anneal that section of pipe, then placed it in my jig and with the amount of leverage I had in the three meter length of pipe it bent really easily, but I also used a hide mallet to GENTLY tap the pipe around the former, You could feel it getting harder to bend so it was then a case of removing the pipe from the jig, heat and quench (overlapping the previously annealed bit) Place back onto the jig and bend the next bit. Once I had done all the coils I welded about piece of pipe to the vertical one to pull the “exit bend” to get things straight again. This was the most fiddly part as I had to weld it strongly enough as not to break off when forming the copper around it, whilst at the same time only having small welds to access and grind off before I could slide the copper coil up and off the former. The whole operation took a day (not forgetting mandatory tea breaks!) I had done some trials before, and had been advised to fill it with sand etc first, but I found this unnecessary. I was really pleased (and surprised to be honest) with how well and easily it all went, so much so that I was too busy doing it to think about taking any photos. Did you manage to make head or tail of my description? David
  10. So another project I’ve worked on this last year is the manufacture of the feed water heater, again for the benifit of non steam readers - most wagons, and some traction engine makers (especially Marshall as I’m sure Hedd will correct me on if I’m wrong!?) fitted feed water heaters to use exhaust steam to pre-heat boiler feed water to help improve efficiency. This takes an amount of exhaust steam from the blast pipe (exhaust pipe) and is fed into a cylindrical casing through which a coil of copper pipe carrying boiler feed water passes, thus heating this feed water. The exhaust steam (now condensed back into water) is then drained into the ashpan. The feed water heater, and associated pipework was completely missing from my Foden when it came back from the US (when it was removed, be it during its working life or earlier in preservation I do not know) but the previous owner had sourced a pair of cast end plates which were unmachined and came with the wagon when I brought it. The end plates have a groove 1/2” deep and 1/4” Wide, into which the 5” OD steel tube which forms the casing of the heater sits. The tube sits inside by 1/4” then there is 1/4” of gland packing at the end to make the seal. The end castings then have a 3/4” draw bolt passing through the two ends to pull them tight. forming the spiral copper piping was an intersting job, which actually went better than I was expecting! It is 1/2” bore thick wall copper tube, I annealed it for about 18” at a time then wound it around a mandrel, I found I could only do about half a turn before it worked hardened and needed re-annealing but was pleasantly suprised with the outcome (shame nobody will ever see it!) Interestingly there is almost 3m of pipe in total in the feed water heater (it’s Only 16” long when fully assembled!) The feed water heater is held in place by two brackets which bolt through the chassis. This was the first job done completely in my new home workshop, so it was nice to actually use it! Again, I hope the photos show what I’ve been upto better than words!
  11. Sorry for the lack of Foden updates, I’ve still been plodding away but kinda haven’t really got much to show for the work, also I’m terrible at remembering to take photos recording what I’ve been up to, but here’s a quick update: The crank was in worse condition that I feared, as “steam people” will know, the big ends are lubricated via a oil pot mounted on the big end strap, which commonly either have a wool “trimming” or a pin which acts as a jumper so when the crank goes round the jumper lifts slightly and an amount of oil is fed into the bearing. Usually this is at the top of the oil pot, but on early wagons it is a long pin which opens at the bottom to allow the oil through (hopefully my photos will show this better than my wording!) At some point the pins had been replaced and the new ones were too long and so have been hammering on the crank (this problem was corrected by the previous owner who fitted new, shorted pins) but they must have been in there a long time as they had scratched grooves into the crank pins which were nearly 1/8” wide and 1/4” deep! The crank was taken to “Field Engine Services” in Leytonstone (who I can’t recommend highly enough - the workshop is a real time warp, and they completely understand our era engines and are very sympathetic) they had to repair the crank webs by submerged arc welding followed by grinding the main and big end journals. The end of the crank where the gears run was also worn and tapered, so this was also ground. The key ways on 5 ton fodens (very different to later 6 ton versions) are dovetailed into the crank, these keyways were worn and the keys loose so everything rattled about so the keyways needed truing up, again this is outside my engineering ability so I took the crank to Inca Geometric in Chartham who did these for me - and again made a lovely job of it. New keys could then be ground to suit and fitted so everything is good and tight again and good bearing services. The roller bearing eccentrics were very very tired, and so needed to be totally rebuilt, again this is well out of my capabilities but I am very fortunate to know an excellent engineer who does lots of vintage car work (Paul Smith Precision Engineer, Gaza Barracks, Sevenoaks Weald) who could do them, so all four (in two pairs) have been remade. This is who also did the dovetail keys. Something which I found interesting was that the crank has never had any paint on it. It was previously a black colour, but that was simply years of grime! Upon degreasing the crank cleaned up well, so will he left as bright steel as original. I suppose what’s the point in painting it as it’s out of sight and why waste paint on it? - any thoughts please? So the actual crank is finished, I need to make a new gear carrier (which slides on the dovetail keys) as obviously the diameter has changed since grinding, for the same reason (and that the old ones were completely knackered) I next need to remake the main and big end bronze bearings, but that’s proving to be quite headache inducing - I’ll explain more about that in a future post...
  12. Good morning all, if it’s of interest I‘ve came across this photo on eBay, item number 333814538193 Happy new year all. David
  13. The roller bearings eccentrics are certainly a very favourable item my foden carries, as you say Hedd this is usually the limiting factor with the plain cast iron eccentrics other 5 ton wagons have. The roller bearings are a bit of a puzzle to me at the moment, having looked at most of the other surviving 5 ton Fodens mine seams to be the only one carrying them. Mike Wilkinson’s WD liveried one is slightly newer than mine but is on cast iron. There is nothing on the build sheet saying they were special order, or an experiment etc, and likewise there’s no comment on the build sheet about them being ordered later in its life, where as the fact that Fodens supplied the Pickering Govenors in 1937 is recorded. As the history of the wagon during preservation is well know, and the fact it spent several decades sat in a museum certainly tells us that they are a pre-preservation fitment. What’s the chances of finding a nice convenient date stamp on them somewhere...?! David
  14. Crikey! How did this show itself, whilst under restoration or in steam? Did it do much damage? I’ve heard of a couple of engines have their flywheels fall off (a Garrett near me had this happen only a few years ago, when the crank sheered next to the main bearing and the flywheel shot backwards and down the road, which must have been very “exciting” for all concerned)
  15. Thank you Hedd, that’s much appreciated. I assumed the radi and key ways would be the weak spots, but will certainly follow your advice and get the cans of die-pen out again and do the centre of the webs. Many thanks David
  16. Not at all Dave, the big press is a very gentle and controllable lump. With so much power available you can go really slow and steady, and the frame is very very rigid, so you can easily watch what’s happening and ease the load on. Dave
  17. Progressing with work on the Foden, the latest struggle has been trying to get the eccentrics off the crankshaft, they were a right bugger! I ended up using the handy 100 ton press at the farm workshops, which although we weren’t on max pressure it was wound up quite high, so at a guess 60+ ton of pressing and that shifted them! I forgot to take photos of the job in progress as I was on a mission and frankly was so pleased how it went I forgot! Unfortunatly I had to remove the ballance weights to make it fit into the press, something I didn’t really want to do, as the crank grinding firm said they could grind with them attached but in the end I had too! interestingly the crank has always been a black colour, this turned out to be 100 years of oil and dirt, once this was removed I discovered that the crank was never painted, there isn’t a single spec of any undercoat, red lead, or colour of any sort on the crank, just the machining marks, so this is how it’s going to go back! Today I’ve mainly been cleaning up the crank, and then crack tested all the radi and key ways, thankfully all is looking good with no flaws being detected, so now I have to wait until the grinders are ready which I was hoping would be this side of Christmas (that dreaded word!) but with lockdown etc coming back I fear it may roll over into next year. In the meantime I will start to work on making new eccentrics with non-knackered rollers and work continues on the cab. sorry for the lack of photos David
  18. Thank you for your comments. I intend to conserve as much of the Foden as possible wherever I can. Likewise I am trying to document what I find as and when I find things so there is a record for the future (and to remind myself when I forget what I did yesterday!)
  19. A few days off this week has meant I could do some more Foden work. Firstly I got the flywheel off the crankshaft, this now leaves the roller bearings eccentrics to get off then the crank can go for grinding, the journals aren’t in great condition so will definatly benefit from being ground. Having got the cab off and home a couple of weeks ago today I have been stripping the cab with help from a carpenter friend. The cab has certainly had major work in the past, as both the roof and rear boards are clearly not the origionals. There are more than one set of nail holes in the roof cross members, and on the rear planks I found maroon paint down behind the rear cross member, so these were clearly painted prior to being fitted. The roof cross members are Ash, and due to water getting under the roof canvas several have rotted on the ends (indeed some ends are totally missing!) the roof and rear boards of the cab are tongue and groove pine and are all reusable. The big rear cross member at the bottom of the cab is oak. The is reusable but with some attention! my aim is to conserve the cab as much as possible. We are going to scarf new pieces of wood into place rather than replace completely, to try and keep the cab as origional as possible. My jig for holding the shape of the cab together has worked well, which I am very pleased about! Something which interested me is that the mortice and tenon joints on the rear of the cab have a 1/2” bolt going up through them, with the bolt neatly recessed into a pocket (with a piece of wood plugging the hole) to pull the joint tightly in together. These proved a pain to undo, but I managed to weld a handle onto the nut, the heat helping to break the rust and then being able to hold this to stop it trying to turn and chew the wood. hope this is of interest and that the photos help explain today’s work better than my description! David
  20. Thank you for your comments. In 1937 the Foden was fitted with a set of Pickering Governors for driving a stone crusher in the quarry, so as these are on the Foden now I feel that it would be chronologically incorrect if I were to return it to its WW1 guise. After it’s life with Devon CC It was sold (in 1950) to Mr Shambrook of Devon (for £18) and then in 1962 to Paul Corin if Cornwall. During this period of ownership it was painted maroon and that is how it was when sent to America in 1966, and likewise when it returned in 1991. When it was painted maroon, thankfully (for us!) the paint work was not taken back to bare metal. And upon stripping the Maroon paintwork (whilst in the ownership of Colin Wheeler) much of the Devon CC livery was discovered. personally I have always been an admirer of “the WD Foden” (now owned by Mr Wilkinson) and saw it several times whilst in the ownership of Dennis Brandt. (Incedentally a friend who I help with his collection of Veteran Cars viewed the Foden when it was still in France and has photos of it from that period) I’ve attached a few photos which may be of interest. The first two are of it around 1950(ish) as it is minus the body, and has the Devon CC “curtains” around the cab - these were a pair of sheets which slid along a wire (visible in the photo if you look carefully) and I would imagine very welcome when working in the quarry, however some work appears to be going on, as the motion sheets are removed and not in the photos. The third photo is of it when painted Maroon and in the ownership of Toby Slingsby. This was taken at the Parham Rally in West Sussex sometime between 1995 - 2000 hope this is of interest. David
  21. this was on another forum, a chap is building a half size traction engine in the US. He made a mould and made his own rubber tyres. May be of interest / use? The relevant part is near the end of the first page. hopefully this link will work: https://tractiontalkforum.com/showthread.php?t=45771 david
  22. Thanks Dave, yeah the jig has worked out well - so far! I’m doing to have to take the side pieces off the cab so need to keep the verticals in the right places so it lines up when I come to put it on again. With the casters I could lift it onto a trailer at the farm, then when I got home rolled it into the garage, I should have used casters with brakes on them to be neater as I’ve now jacked the jig up and put onto planks of wood in the garage as it rolls around too easily! a couple of photos of the steel bracing and one of the rotted cross members which will need replacing.
  23. So, rather than being at a certain West Country steam rally with the Burrell this weekend has been spent doing some more Foden destruction! The cab is very origional, but also very rotten, with several parts plated and strengthened by the previous owner, my intention is to retain as much of the origional timber as possible and splice in new wherever possible. So yesterday saw the cab being removed and bolted onto a framework as a jig to keep all the uprights in place (the centre support isn’t shown in the photos, this was added later as I needed the cab off to fit them) the cab is now home so I can work on it in the relative luxury of the garage. Next to come out was the crank, this is in need of some serious work, the main bearing and big end journals are very scored so a regrind is required. Also the roller bearing eccentrics are life expired and will need replacing, however the first task is going to be getting the flywheel and eccentrics off the crank. With all the motion now removed I can inspect all the parts and work forward, however most parts will need work, but I have a workshop at home so most machining jobs can be done “in house” (apart from the crank grind) so I’m looking forward to getting stuck into it. Today has Been spent steam cleaning the boiler and various components, further updates to follow!
  24. Thanks Hedd, I was very lucky to pick up three of those lamps, 2 are like this one and brand new, never lit, it was a good discovery! I have a P&H self generating headlamp for the Foden (the lamp is currently under restoration). What made me wonder is the build sheet states it was supplied to WD with “Dependence fronts and tails, P&H headlight” so I assumed only the self generating to be a P&H lamp?
×
×
  • Create New...