BlueBelle

IT is a E4 one supplied from contract 6/V7878 from a block of registration numbers 44 BH 01 to 54 BH 00

Thank you Wally.

Kind regards,

Lizzie

The Scammell’s FV3621(A) Low-Loader 20 Ton Trailer parked up with a double load of a Thames E4 truck and a seemingly wheel-less water bowser trailer. Now then, surely someone is going to challenge my call on that truck, aren’t they? Well, I hummed and hawed about it, looked up ‘every’ possible military truck body possible and the only one that ‘looked’ like the one in the photo was the Thames E4. The cab? It can’t really be seen though the tiny bit showing did seem a like that of a Bedford QL but I couldn’t relate that to the body. If the wiser than me folk on here tell me, unequivocally that it’s not what I said it is, then I’ll go with them! Maybe. The bowser? Who knows?

Can you see anything a little odd at the rear of the FV3621(A) Low-Loader 20 Ton Trailer? I can, and it was not unusual either! I have photos of trucks, trailers and, somewhere, I have even seen a photo of a Scammell Explorer 'attired' in the same way. If it fitted, then it got used!

Just another view of the Halftrack being dragged off the FV3621(A) Low-Loader 20 Ton Trailer by Scammell Explorer 94BD17. Note the interior layout, curved rear corners, rear door and other features marking it out as an IHC M9A1 as said previously. Shabby paint too.

Interesting building, lots of galvanised sheet iron and au-naturel air conditioning provision to save on window frames and glass. Rather like Tarhuna Barracks, though built of stone. Oh, I see another 'thing' sticking up at a rakish angle on this side, just behind the door. One each side, so what were they for? Can you see a machine gun mount? I can, though if guns were ever fitted in service post-war in Libya and you can prove it, I'll ........ ?

I wondered if the plank was hinged along its bottom edge so could be dropped to a horizontal position to act as an external sun visor, perhaps.

 

Close study of the photo does reveal four dark blobs that could be hinges.

Not that I know any better than you really, but I'm rejecting the planks as a sun visor contraption and am going to stick (no pun intended) with my assumption that it's a rudimentary local modification (no EMER trace) stowage assistance device MK1 - cam net/hessian sausage thing. Besides, the Workshops would have had a metal-bashing gang to hand, ‘metalsmith’ was the trade, I think, and they could have bashed together something more ‘visor-looking’ than wooden duckboards! I seem to recall a photo somewhere of a Scammell Explorer with a ‘proper-looking’ metal visor, probably civilian though.

 

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Scammel 94BD27 looking rather pristine.

 

That Scammell, 94BD27 lived at Medenine Barracks Tripoli in 1961 and 62 with the Royal Scots and Cyclops 2 RTR. On which unit's strength it was held, I know not. I have a nice colour photo of it there, taken by a 2 RTR chap which, when i have his permission, I'll post in due course. I wonder if this one survived?

22 Engineer regiment became established at Perham Down Tidworth in the 1970's

Not sure if they went to Tidworth direct from Tripoli or via another location.

There was a 6 Fd Sqn with them at that time, along with 8, 52 and 1 other, but 6 were in 1978 an AMFL Sqn geared up for service in the Arctic and Norway. Bit of a change from Tripoli if it is the same unit.

22 Engr Regt RE in Libya was comprised of 12, 17 & 23 Fd Sqns & 6 Fd Pk Sqn.

"On the back of the photo is written (The last vehicle "AJAX" 2 RTR) note the Divisional sign is not a sailing ship?"

Yes, we've gone to Cyrenaica. Not a Divisional marking but a District one, just as the Barbary dhow represented the Tripolitania District. 2RTR and little me (my Father was their WO1 (ASM) REME) arrived in Homs, Tripolitania in August 1959. Ajax 2RTR though, went to D'Aosta Barracks, Benghazi, Cyrenaica and swopped over with Badger from Homs a year later. Then, in October of 1961, the camp in Homs was handed back to the Libyans; the regiment moved into Wavell Barracks, Benghazi (including Badger from D'Aosta Barracks with the exception of Cyclops who went west to Tripoli and Medenine Barracks (co-located with the Royal Scots inf.). The regiment left Libya around October 1962. Maybe your Father was attached to 2 RTR? If you provide his name I can post onto the 2 RTR Old Boys forum to see if anyone remembers him (I'm very active on that forum, particularly the Libya thread in efforts to get those who were there to dig out their photos and memories).

Maybe I've already posted a photo on this thread here, of your Father? I've some more to put up on here, including a sad looking 2 RTR Cyclops Saladin in a Tripoli Wksp with REME 'jokers' messing about in it! Circa Oct 1961/62

Meanwhile, back in Libya.......

Oh, just because I said in a previous post that the HMVF chap's dad drove Scammell Explorer 94BD17 around in 1956/7, we have to remind ourselves that it was perhaps not then a REME vehicle as the driver was a Sapper (there’s another Sapper too, who drove this vehicle in 6 FD Pk Sqn RE, do look up a Frank Hallsworth on Forces Reunited to see his two poor quality photos of 94BD17 – he doesn’t answer requests for info, just peeps back at my profile!) with 6 Field Park RE and, said Scammell then had two mudguards which didn’t sport a REME flash but that of an RE Blue rectangle (or was it a square?) with a white 42 superimposed thereon (correct marking for a Fd Pk Sqn RE in an Armd Divisional HQ and Troops unit). The other mudguard was embellished with the white standing rhino facing left on a black oval (correct marking at that time for 25 Armd Bde). 6 Fd Pk Sqn RE were, I am lead to believe, co-located with the 5 Medium Wksp REME (became the smaller Station Wksp REME by 1958ish) in Tripoli, were part of 22 Engr Regt RE based also in Tripoli (Prinn Barracks) though if all other Sqns were there or not, I don’t know. The entire regiment exited Libya for the UK by 1958. A resident Tripoli RE Sqn in 1960 (maybe there earlier?) was 33 Independent Fd Sqn RE though I not much more about them other than they with their trucks and another 19 Bedford RLs from the Royal Marine Commando group aboard HMS Bulwark who landed at Homs (Apr 1960) to put in place fuel dumps in the Fezzan for 2RTR Cyclop’s epic desert trials to the border with French Equatorial Africa (Toumo water hole in the Tibesti mountains) with their new Saladins, Alvis’s Mr Sydney Bunce and other, some very old, vehicles! Ex Crescent moon it was called and perhaps more of it with vehicle photos, another time. 10 Armoured Division in Libya existed for 10 months - prep for the Suez (no Libya units took part), though immediately prior to then, 25 Armoured Brigade (an expanded one) with the same white non-rampant left facing rhino ruled the roost (or paddock). Once 10 Armd Division ‘dissolved’ and approx. 6,000 troops departed (by 1958/9) from Libya to leave around 2,000, there soon were no more white rhinos on serving vehicle markings or on uniform shoulder flashes. Instead, troops in Libya came under a Malta and Libya Command, split into two Districts, Cyrenaica to the East with it’s black and white Cyrene roman pillars as rectangular vehicle marking and shoulder patches, whilst in the West, Tripolitania District adopted the blue, white and black barbary dhow on rectangles and/or shields for vehicles and just shields for shoulder patches. The barbary dhow insignia had first been used (stolen, I think, from the Italian rulers of Tripoli in 1944) on stationery, though whether or not on vehicles/uniforms in the early years of British military government, I know not.

Do you know who this fine REME fellow is though? I don't. Note, we've switched back to the REME 94BD17...... and its FV3621(A) Low-Loader 20 Ton Trailer :-D

Now we know why the front mudguards go missing, probably ripped off the right hand ones on the building next to the pyramid, then took the other off to match. With four sides to the stone construction you would think they would have driven up the other side!

The rabbit hutch was in the way? :cheesy:

Remember that stone cairn/mini pyramid structure in Andy B’s photo of the Tripoli camp (still waiting for you Andy to tell us where in Tripoli the photo was taken/your father was based)? Well, the next two of 94BD17 show that it seems to have been manoeuvred into a sticky position on purpose, something to do with getting the angle of the dangle on the front swivelly axle in order to do some specific adjustment, maybe. Oh, it's really just exactly as Richard said, though in somewhat more technical terminology. These splendid photos and scenarios lend themselves perhaps as subjects of hilarity, humour, mirth and numerous gags, especially about REME capabilities and prowess as tradespeople, soldiers, drivers etc., though we know better, don’t we!

In a similar vein, even The Tank Museum states the following on their website:

"Photography: Photographs taken inside the Museum are for personal use only. Photographs taken inside the Museum may not be used for commercial purposes without prior arrangement and may be subject to a licensing fee. Please contact the Archive and Library for more details".

So just be careful in using photographs even if you were behind the shutter!

Oops, sorry Lizzie ......I thought it may have been a silly suggestion ! Never been to Tripoli so had no idea.

 

cheers Richard

It is refreshing being in the good company of 'people in the know' and who 'challenge' and 'contribute'. Thank you.

Here are a few more photo's showing the trailer.

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Superb photos again, Andy. Keep them coming, anything that fits in this thread!

Scammell Explorers going outside the barracks area in Tripolitania (probably Cyrenaica too) are often pictured dragging an FV3621 (A) 20 ton low-loader trailer (notice how I like using the terminology for the trailer, now I know) laden with jerrycans for its own fuel resupply (Scammells are thirsty, maybe more so in hot desert climes?) and sand channels, for obvious reasons. It was not uncommon either to be seen with no front mudguards, though for what reason I know not. Strange to see the planks across the cab roof top, maybe there to stow cam nets etc. on the rare occasions Station Wksps ever went out to 'play at being soldiers', after all, Libya was a holiday posting, for most, wasn't it? Certainly was for 2RTR in Homs, Tripoli and Benghazi!

Great thread , thanks for sharing :-D

So glad you like the content Andy. More on the way.

Was the stone cairn used to drive the front wheels of the Scammell up to check full movement of walking beams, and again for front axle?

Ha ha Richard, you are so funny......... though quite correct! Stolen my thunder.... and I wonder now if you were there at the time Ha ha! Now I'm going to make you wait to see the photos ...... not long though 'cos I'm itching to post them!

:-D:-D:-D

Any tips for driving a CVRT on sand?

 

Sand in the Gulf seemed to cause regular track shedding fro what I've read.

 

Presumably beach sand might be more forgiving than bone dry desert sand.

 

I think neutral and tight turns might be out, to avoid collecting too much sand between the wheels and spuds.

 

Any other advice welcome!

Perhaps paying attention to adjusting and maintaining the correct track tension/correct number of links would be helpful? Certainly no 'hard stick' turns!

This could be the same group of vehicles? photo taken by my late father (REME) about 61-62.

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Andy, what a great shot! Yes, it most certainly is the same group of vehicles with the photo being taken from the top of a Scammell Explorer (possibly 94BD17?) hitched to an FV3621 (A) 20 ton low-lowder trailer carrying jerrycans! The confirming factor about the two photos is for me, the tall tree! Yes, a tree! Andy, please, please can you tell me what the unit was and the barrack name that your late father served in whilst in Libya (I'll say its Tripoli) where this photo you have was taken? That little piece of info will cement much of my fragmented 'British Army in Tripoli' puzzle together.

Now, I'll call upon you all, to pay attention to (not the issue rabbit/tortoise hutch) the angled stone cairn-type structure as you're going to see it again and what, in relation to Scammell Explorer 94BD17, it was really useful for! :-D

I am enjoying reading this thread:-D

So glad that's the case John. Stay tuned, more to come!

This is a list of BD allocated numbers for the trailer fv3621 {A}

08 BD 86 to 09 BD 50 CONTRACT NUMBER 6/V/5592 made by British Trailer

12 BD 30 to 12 BD 73 contract number 6/V/5948 made by HANDS

20 BD 43 to 20 BD 98 contract number 6/V/5947 made by TASKER yours is in this batch

31 BD 90 to 31 BD 99 contract number5592 made by British Trailer

This all there is in the BD range

As to the Scammell Explorer the RANGE of VRNs in BD ran from 11 BD 51 to 94 BD 17 contact number 6/V/7443

The series of BD numbers came in 1950/51

as to a drawing of this type of trailer l do have a builders drawing dated 1951 which measures three feet by four

Wally, thank you so very much! Just look at all the great info you've given me (and to you too, dear viewer). The photo details too, provide the measurements. How nice a copy of your builders drawing would be, in my collection! Ha Ha, just a bit too big for a home scanner and a pdf copy, I guess?

The Australian equivalent RAEME is colloquially refereed to as Royal Australian Easy Money Earners

 

I went from RAA to RAEME and there was a distinct difference :-D

 

Great pictures, thanks for sharing

So glad you appreciate them Mike. More to come!

Hi Lizzie,

I had to check the number of that Scammell, and nearest one to it that I worked on when it was in service (early 80's) was 94BD41 .... not close enough!

That trailer, there was one of these on the Recovery Section of the Command Wksp, when I started there in early 70's, not a very practical trailer for carrying lorries as the bed was a bit short, mainly meant for RE plant. I think that would be a FV3621(A) Trailer 20 ton Low Loading, the FVRDE book for 1956 shows it being made by Taskers, Hands and British Trailers.

 

Richard

Ah ah! FV3621 (A) it is then! Thank you Richard; every day is a new learning experience!

Scammell Explorer 94BD17, Halftrack 13ZA37 and Trailer 20BD57

The Scammell Explorer 94BD17 is popular, popping up on the web with in-service Libya photos (not just mine) if you know where to look, at shows of late as this vehicle has survived and even elsewhere on this forum with photos and where the son of a previous ‘in Libya’ army driver has made inquiries about it! I shall post something there too on this forum as his father may be the subject in my photos of the vehicle! Isn’t that great, connecting family to their forbears, possibly.

You will be presented with more of this splendid vehicle, 94BD17, only later on as I don’t want you over-indulging in a Scammell Explorer fest. :-D

Station Workshops or an OFP in Tripoli? Anyone recognise the working area layout or sheds or type of activity from visits to those locations? We could then name the place!

The Halftrack is an extremely poorly (look closely) IHC M9A1, designed as a prime mover for artillery pieces and typically towed a 17pdr gun. It’s not the troop-carrying IHC M5/M5A1 as the internal layout arrangement differs. Britain had a few thousand of these two types during WW2 which carried on in service in ever depleting numbers up until the very late 70s, usually by then converted to REME LAD variants (17 BVD Monchengladbach in 1978 had at least a dozen ‘runners’ of these, some with different types of folding jibs and raised superstructures, parked up for disposal). Notice here the one extended headlamp, on a stalk, what’s that about? What is the bracket-thing sticking up in the air just behind the cab door? Poor paint job too. In fact, the paint finish on army vehicles in Libya always seems to have been of questionable quality, 'washing' off easily, to expose the previous or original green (deep bronze?) livery. An exception of course to the tatty appearance would have been for annual reviews, parades etc. Towards the end of British military presence in Libya, vehicles were extremely tatty and battered, taking on appearences that would not have earlier in time, been permitted (I have some photos to prove this). Oh, this Halftrack here is also not a White M3 Halftrack as the type had very evident differentiating features (if you know what you’re looking for) is another story and probably none were ever in Libya post-war, unless you know different (oh, to be THE world-wide acknowledged expert on these matters!).

Is the trailer a Cranes/Tasker 20 ton low-loader? What was the correct FV number for it, when did it come into service and when did it go out? Where can I find more information about the type, dimensions, drawings, layout, operation, photos etc.? Ah, a User Handbook perhaps; has anyone got one I could peek at? What about VRN range of numbers. Poor trailers, they are so over-looked! Notice how ‘they’ are just dragging the casualty of the side of the trailer, rather than taking the wheels off the trailer and pulling it down the ‘ramp’ on it’s wheels and tracks with dignity. Now I remember what the REME letters really represented .....

I can see three other Halftracks, can you?

Here we go, the moment, that you’ve all been waiting for .......

Three photos of Scammell Explorer 35BC13 ‘recovering’ a dodgy Dingo, a scrapped one in use as a training aid. Perhaps an ‘open day’ demo for families, or school children, given the audience. Location: Tripoli (see the Tripolitania dhow flash on the Scammell and you’ll also see the word ‘Tripoli’ stencilled on the Dingo superstructure). But where in Tripoli? Station Workshops REME no doubt but where was the workshop located? Gurgi barracks? Kassala barracks? Prinn barracks? Medenine barracks, perhaps not. Not quite hitting the right spot here in the Research forum, am I? Maybe everyone who ‘knows’ or was there, is deceased, parked-up in the sky tank park? Anyway viewer (I know there’s more than one of you, really I do), enjoy the photos.

Mobats! Still on an OFP somewhere, methinks, and possibly at Kassala camp on the NE outskirts of Tripoli, were some 1954-vintage Mobat L4 Anti-Tank Guns. Two photos of the same gun from different angles. Can you see the spotting gun mount for the Bren Gun? I can (on the side, not the top).

You may wish to challenge that we’re looking at M40 106mm Recoilless Rifles, or L2 BAT Guns, or L6 Wombat Guns or even L7 Conbat Guns.... but we’re not!

BER/CAST/Surplus unwanted, left to the elements and the clue to that reasoning is the gun barrel left in the air (plugged or unplugged they would never be parked like that in service) and polythene/Harry Black wrapped around the what I think may be the elevation/traverse block assembly.

Initially, the Mobat was towed by the Austin Champ, more latterly, by Landrovers.

Any further enlightenment on these guns and their location, Kassala camp and the units therein will be most graciously received.

I guess most the OFP stuff we’ve seen would have ‘gone down the range’ as my 2RTR contact ‘who was there’ advised, further saying that most ‘armour’ not sent down the range was stripped/stolen by thieving non-British, or was taken on to LSTs for dumping overboard (not as uncommon as you may think) with very little taken all the way back to Ministry disposals sites in the UK. Can’t imagine there would have been any demand from anywhere in the World for turretless Stuarts though if you know something I don't, then please say so!

So glad that you and one or two others are looking and doing the important bit here, commenting. You’re allowed to embellish with ‘epic tales’ and memories of those times for all to read.

An Ordnance Field Park, possibly 595 at Kassala Barracks, Tripoli and here’s a feast for your eyes, if you’re looking! No, no Scammells yet, but just look at the line ups here! M5A1 Stuart Gun Tractors (for 17 pdr Field Guns), M5 and/or M9 Halftracks and Daimler Dingos. No, you are not looking at a WW2 vehicle park though all the vehicles are of that vintage. Lined up is some of the ‘military might’ for Operation H, no, not ‘Hamilcar’ (or Humiliation) as was the original name for the Suez Debacle of 1956, but for Musketeer (thus representative of the 3 ‘allied’ nations that took part – UK, France and Israel). The vehicles that were prepped for/landed at Suez wore the H mark, not an M mark as no one could be bothered to change the markings. Libya based units, whilst prepped, were 'not allowed to go' on the invasion. I'll let you look up for the reason (I know :-D).

(The French for ‘Hamilicar’ is ‘Amilcar’ and therefore the French perceived ‘confusion’, hence too, the ‘main’ reason for changing the operation name).

The vehicles in this photograph (and those shown on other sites showing UK unit vehicles in Libya between 1957 - 1959) continued to wear the Suez invasion H mark for several years after 1956, including those in-service by British units in Libya though especially those left on disposal and Ordnance Field Parks. I’m therefore suggesting that as we know ‘our’ intrepid photographer was busy with his camera between 1959 and 1962 that the vehicles shown here were surplus stocks in an OFP (probably Tripoli – maybe Kassala Barracks as there was an OFP there) and that the photo was taken there between those years. Hard targets on the Tarhuna ranges, for Malkara in 1962? Oh yes, I can confirm that some Dingos certainly became shrapnel, thanks to Cyclops 2RTR and of course, I surmise, the RAC Para Sqdn in 1964 with former Cyclops personnel. The Malkara trials team would have had some nice Dingo targets too.