BlueBelle

Any mention of Libya and the trialling regiment?

Thanks for posting about the Cambridge Carrier. Advanced search completed to find your Cambridge thread; failed! Can you please point in the right direction? I wonder why the Cambridge Carrier was abandoned in Canada? Is someone operating what you've shewn or restoring them? Thanks in advance.

Magnificent! SAND-COLOURED too! Thank you for posting. MORE! Hmmm, Arm'd Regt? 3RTR? 3RTR did not 'do' Libya as a regimental or squadron posting, though maybe a troop/trials troop could have 'done' the desert. If Arm'd I'd go for 5RTR Dec 54-Mar 57 Barce Cyrenaica District or 6RTR Nov 57-Aug 59 Homs Tripolitania District or Queen’s Bays Feb 56-Aug 57 Sabratha If we can prove either way I'd be even happier! The source of the photo is.....? I might need it, legally, for my book!!!! Just realised, there are TWO of them, side by side!

:laugh::laugh::laugh: There will be more!

Hmm, not sure where 2RTR parked their Austin K9s, so we'll keep on trying ..... Did you notice the first ever literation of the reverse air-flow cooling on the nose of the early marques of Saracens in the previous photo? Yes, we've covered this before with the REME AQMS Wally Roach. Did you also see that cute little ..... generator on the Saracen's wing? Must be one of their command vehicles (no, not with the modified superstructure, just a bog standard Saracen). What can we see here in John Empson REME's photo? Well, there's one at least!

Lovely sand-coloured stuff. Much nicer than anything else, don't you think? You don't have to agree though ......

Spring forward a few years, miss out 6RTR's time in Homs and we come to 2RTR's holiday in Homs (only joking -- they worked hard, played hard just as all previous encumbents did) and LOOK what was on the tank park!!!:wow: These next few photos are from John Empson REME who 'was there' as was my father who ran the REME workshop as the ASM whilst the two REME officers were, erm, perhaps doing something elsewhere, perhaps one always in Benghazi (the EME) where 2RTR's Ajax squadron was based (D'Aosta barracks), and of course, I, moi (kinder) was there and walked through the workshop gate, through those vehicles almost daily enroute from our Libyan Lodge or school (bottom end of camp outside the wall) which finished at 13.00 as did the soldiers in the summer 9 months, to the beach, just 100 yards from the front main gate of the camp. Can you see an Austin K9? No, neither can I. :-D

Oh. Cobberton? I hope they've not disguised it as something else then! :-D

Then you will be justified in 'doing over' the K9 into whatever colour scheme and markings you wish .... Light Stone, Libya-based would be nice! Plenty of photos to follow!:cool2:

HQ Egypt & Mediterranean Command. Up to mid-50s. The Light Stone did it for me!!!:-)

Yes, well done! Very rare vehicle indeed. See my other comment and photo. I believe one version survives somewhere and that the others graced the ranges or melting pot. Anyone know for sure?

I am so impressed! Spot on! Yes, 3RHA had at least one of these vehicles on strength for a while. They were trials vehicles, pre-cursors of the FV432 series. Perhaps only 12 pre-production models were made for evaluation. It never made full production. I wonder where the other vehicles were trialled? I have this photo of the Cambridge AOP in my collection and I'm not sure of its origin. Perhaps IWM? Credit to them if due.

Really glad you like the photos, dear viewers. I could list all Tripolitania barrack names and units 1951 and 1966 though I'm not going to here as I simply cannot pinpoint with conviction and accuracy the locations of those barracks, most certainly not the Tripoli ones as named in The Treaty of Friendship 1953 (freely avail on the web). I can certainly pinpoint all the former Italian/Axis barracks in Tripoli/Tagiura (Tagiura = Italian camps at km 20 and 27 named by the British post-war as ‘Kassala Barracks and land’, which I can also see now on Google Satellite and on my £300.00 Italian Military Institute map of Tripoli dated 1938 showing barracks (no names though) all over the place. I have a British/US map of Tripoli dated 1943, updated 1962 that shows barracks but doesn't name them! There are different versions of the US/UK map which show either errors or omissions in barrack locations and outlines. Prior to 1951, its minefield with no marked mines trying to find information, especially as the British occupied many more barracks and buildings than The Treaty refers to. Official archive records are scarce and those that may exist are very difficult to pinpoint within archive folders and files, which is certainly the case with The National Archive with whom I've spent over £1500 on remote research in return for next to nothing! I must though, recount this, that in researching the activities of the RAOC Tripoli in order to gain clues about barrack locations etc., I received an unwanted 126 page report from The National Archive that revealed, amonst other less than useful information, how many pairs of boots were repaired by DADOS (Deputy Assistant Director of Ordnance Services), 1945 Tripoli! I don't have a belly but that revelation, despite the expense of purchasing the record, made me belly laugh 'till it hurt. ‘Where’ those repairs took place, I’ve no idea though it was ‘somewhere’ in Tripoli. For those not in the know, the British named most Italian barracks in Tripoli and Tagiura occupied by themselves after battle victories against Italian occupied Africa. Thus, we have, as named in The Treaty, Kassala barracks Keren barracks Medenine barracks (Yes, I know Medenine is a city in Tunisia but it really was a barrack name, really, in Tripoli) Mareth barracks (suspect it was old cavalry barracks, RAOC there early on with BFPS – BFPS moved to Miani Barracks, RAOC to Kassala barracks, all I see on mine and Google maps) Azyzzia barracks Gurgi barracks Gialo barracks and Annexe (Jalu in Arabic as it shows up on Google maps) Then we have: BMH Tripoli, renamed from Caneva Ospedale at km1 from Porta Benito (Caneva was an Italian General) Miani barracks, name unchanged from Italian (a 1920s General) and is in Arabic, Miyami Prinn barracks is the British way of interpreting ‘Birin’ (adopted in Arabic) who was an Italian senior diplomat and the name of a capital ship Then we have barrack names such as Marine, White, Imperial and so on. If you Google the Arabic for say Gialo barracks, which is Mu`askar Jalu, you’ll see ‘roughly where it was in Tripoli. Try again for Medenine barracks, which is Mu`askar Madanīyah, you’ll see roughly where it was. Try Prinn barracks, which is Mu`askar Bīrīn, you’ll see roughly where it was. Try Miani barracks, which is Mu`askar Miyāmī, you’ll see roughly where it was. Though not precise, those Google indications roughly equate to the barrack locations on my maps. I just need verifiable confirmation, that which eludes me and archive holders. Otherwise, take it all with a pinch of salt! Sometimes, references are given to a kilometre point from Tripoli, a case in point being Kassala at km20. These km points are not measured from the centre of old Tripoli, but from the gates (Porta) on the outer defended wall (1st ring road now) through which all main roads went. Thus the zero point for km20 was at Porta Taguira. The 5km point on the road to Ain Zara was measured from Porta (I’ve forgotten!) but you ended up at Miani Barracks. Thus 5kms from Porta Benito saw you at Medenine barracks! Another word for barracks is ‘Hamiyet’. Italians used the word ‘Caserma’, very similar to the German ‘Kaserne’ though I’ve no German maps of Tripoli and surrounds. All areas outside that defended wall were still desert or farmed lands with ‘real’ oases everywhere. Post 1960, it started to be built upon (oil had been discovered in 1959) and soon the city expanded dramatically. Pouring over maps is fun, especially when you find ‘something’ and ‘the penny drops’. All thrilling stuff, you’ll agree, no doubt!!!!!! My quest for Tripolitania info goes on; I have a book to write. I'll either have to hire a researcher, go thereto archive holders myself or find a willing unpaid volunteer who lives 'nearby' to go and dig out the information sought. I cannot rely on people's memory either, as either they really can't remember or they provide big bright red herrings that I can tell, are just that. A classic case in point are some lovely gentlemen I know who served in Tripoli but cannot remember the name of the barracks or where it was in relation to others or notable focal points etc. I have learned from records though, that counter to the ‘dodgy’ memories of some, the REME workshop (61 Station WKSP and previously known as 5 Medium WKSP) was at GURGI Barracks (even during 2RTR's time out there) yet I still don't know where those barracks were or if they were close or attached to another! Anyway, if only regiments had fulfilled their duties in completing their quarterly Unit History reports to then deposit them in the appropriate regimental/national archives then my research would be that much easier. Its not just the photos that I need, its the history that allows me to write with authority and conviction lest I produce something not quite what I'd intended it to be. From official records, I can say that at the height of our military presence in Libya, there were around 10,000 personnel just after withdrawal from Palestine, 1949. That number depleted as Libya units went to quell the locals in Egypt/Jordan, then rose again to around that number upon withdrawal from Egypt (Canal Zone) and then, dropped massively by around 8,000 just after Suez. So just around 2,000 personnel post 1956/7 as units returned to the UK or went to Cyprus, Jordan, Aden, Kenya etc. There was no real political will, military strategy or finance available to maintain forces in Libya, other than in the end, the staging post of El Adem and port facilities at Tobruk. I tend to just have a passing interest in what happened with British Forces in Cyrenaica, other than with of course, the superb 2nd Royal Tank Regiment.

Ha ha! Ok, but you can see a myriad of vehicles youself by watching the whole No Time to Die/Tank Force video free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTelow6IArA Marks out of ten if you can identify all vehicles and who is using what! Great fun. :-) Sand-coloured photos of Humber CTs are not that common. I will dig, though there are some on another forum that you should look at: http://www.arborfield-september49ers.co.uk/libya-extras-03.htm

Still with Sextons and 3RHA who were part of 25 Armd Brigade and then, 10 Armd Division and then ..... went off somewhere else which wasn't sandy .... oh, that'll be Bulford where I believe they switched to either towed 25pdrs or 5.5" guns .... DBG. From Max Warwick REME who was attached to 3RHA in Homs and Egypt (pre-Suez) as their armourer Sgt, we have this photo of the parade square in Homs camp. I'll help you with the line-up; I can see Cromwell AOPs and Command Posts (don't know the marques though other photos may help with identification), Sexton SPGs and GPOs and, a very strange-looking last vehicle. Hmmm, I know what it is, but do you? No copying rules apply.

A Sexton GPO? Yes, nothing to do with the posties of yore but here's a lovely sand-coloured one that belonged to 3RHA and it's sitting on the back of a Diamond T rig. Notice the additional 'local' storage framework and, no big gun. Its the second photo, of course! As usual, please, no copying of any of the photos I post, lest I lose the goodwill (and you and I even more?) of their donors. Photos by Dudley Carter 3RHA.

Things are 'heating up' on the Libya thread, no pun intended though I wonder if Libya has snow this week as many Arabic parts are having? No, by heating up I mean to say 'look', Magnakater and Kuno are are now contributing (photos please, 'little ones for here and LARGE ones to me by email or disc); isn't this wonderful, and, AndyB has got back to me with more, yes, more photos of Tripolitania sand-coloured things and the married quarters (Libyan Lodges) in Prinn Barracks, Tripoli in the snail mail to me!!!!:-)

Now then, there were FOUR, yes, four, not two, 'Great' war films made in Tripolitania during 1957/8 with huge contributions from British Army units based in Tripolitania, in particular 38 Company and 1 Tank Transporter Company RASC, Queen’s Bays and to a lessor extent, by 22 Engineer Regiment RE (who kept and operated their Halftracks in DAK markings for 18 months, just in case ....), 3RHA, 6RTR and (as suggested by ‘weak’ evidence) 5 Medium Wksp REME. ‘Sea of Sand’ aka ‘Desert Patrol’ (US) ‘Bitter Victory’ ‘No Time to Die’ aka ‘Tank Force’ (US) ‘Ice Cold in Alex’ aka ‘Desert Attack’ (US) There may have been others. 3RHA in Homs also hosted cast members (Sophia Loren, John Wayne etc.) from the 1957 film ‘Legend of the Lost’, though whether or not any military vehicles were involved, I know not and as I have not seen the film. The set was Leptis Magna, Homs, my childhood ‘stamping grounds’. The DAK Sexton photo is from the defunct Illustrated London News (via Les Freathy) and shows the Sexton on the Diamond T navigating the Garian Pass, south of Tripoil on the way to or from Medenine Barracks, Tripoli and the Ice Cold in Alex film set. From the RASC Journals of the period, that Diamond T belonged to 1 Tank Transporter Company RASC, was driven by Dvr Smith..... and was the first occasion a Diamond T (laden or unladen?) had traversed the mountain pass. The 5km journey over the pass took 3 hours. The Sexton may have been a standard Sexton or a Sexton GPO (Gun Position Officer - a Sexton not fitted with a 25pdr) from 3RHA or supplied from an ordnance depot and converted to show it with a ‘fake’ gun and mantlet. For the film ‘No Time to Die’ (Tank Force), 1 Tank Transporter Company RASC used 16 DTs to transport the Queen’s Bays Centurion tanks to and from the film set and Sabratha Barracks, though the DTs were not seen in the film. My source again, is the RASC Journal of the period. Hilarious goofs throughout the film with Operation Musketeer invasion markings (H) that I saw on the Bedford QLs (though I wasn’t looking closely they may have been Austin K5s) and even the ‘Bays squadron markings on vehicles, a German picking up and firing a MG (sound effects heard) though it didn’t have a magazine or belt ammunition feed fitted, and that ‘German’ Humber 1 tonne CT ...... The Best of British film making of those times!

I shall heed your advice Sean though I'm not sure about posting them all here! :-D I have to save some treasure for 'the book'! :-D

I believe this is so Richard. British. A Red Cross, too. No fake DAK camouflarge or DAK palm tree insignia. Libya-based 'Lorried' Infanty battalions in the 50s were not 'lorried' at all as they were 'Halftracked'!!! Their ambulances tended to be Halftracks too. All Halftracks seemed to have been M5s, M9s and converted M14s. International. Furthermore, most sure that the ambulance Halftrack is not a 'White' (see mudguard profile) so therfore, an International.

:-) I love the thread too, just havn't got the time available that I'd like to spend on it (including scanning and intelligently filing over 600 photos now in, of sand-coloured stuff) :-) I've got a book to write, didn't you know? :-D Keep on following Andy, and all other folk too. If you know of anyone 'who was there', a veteran, a relative or someone's parents or grandparents then please do send them my way via the forum. Let's capture the history!

I LIKE this! :-) Would be nice to have a 'Like' facility too, here on the forum, though just a simple smiley as a response would do. Enlightenment is one thing, entertainment another though encouragement is everything!

Going for it again, abridged from memory. The original was posted (somewhere!) before Clive joined the 2RTR forum. LOOK! :-D It's THAT Scammell Explorer again! No, not 94BD17 though we'll see lots more of it. Its 94BD27 again, Yay! Remember, AndyB posted a couple of superb photos of 94BD27 earlier in this thread and now, from an ex-Cyclops 2RTR Para Armoured Sqn man who jumped with Hornets (he was not a Penguin), we have this photo. That man is Robbie Monk 2RTR who has in fact, handed over his entire original Libya photo/slide collection to me to use as I wish (even, as he said, without a photo credit in his name - which I cannot omit as I want to honour him and deservedly so) and we'll see more of his collection later. You'll also see that tatty DBG 'thing' which is an upside-down Hornet/Malkara vehicle requiring recovery to at least, an upright position. To facilitate a 'managed' recovery, the Leyland Recovery vehicle you see had to be called in from Tripoli some perhaps 80 miles distant and despite the Scammell being at the 'incident' site already, there was quite a wait for the Leyland to appear to effect the uprighting of the Hornet. Photo taken by Robbie Monk 2RTR in July 1964.

I love the headed notepaper Clive! Now you're on 2RTR's forum, you must make your presence felt as many will be tickled pink to learn you've joined and, for those that don't know you or of you and your Cyclops Para involvement, you'll have found new friends with a great interest in you and your work. You must produce that article for the REME Journal or, a full-blown book to cover such a neglected aspect of Hornet/Malkara. Yesterday I posted something quite substantial here, along with a pretty colour picture of sand-coloured things (not dunes) and a tatty DBG 'thing' south of Tripoli on the ranges. Humph! Today, none of it is here! What happened, I hear you say? Well I don't know, that's for sure but maybe I didn't hit the 'publish' button or whatever its called? I'd not had sundowners or snifters and I'm not that much over 21 though I confess to occasional mind-drift. Now I'll have to try and remember what I wrote and 'go for it again'!