Originality

[ted angus]

DPM is DISPERSED Pattern Material.

 

A disruptive pattern consists of jagged shapes to break up the overall shape. ISTR that Denison smocks featured a disruptive pattern. What the rest of the army has worn since the late 60s is a dispersed pattern.

 

Disruptive camouflage is best represented by ships painted with big sharp triangles that break up their shape. One camouflage I consider to be disruptive by definition is the underside of early Second World War RAF aircraft, painted half black, half white.

 

A dispersed pattern consists of swirls to break up the pattern. See a combat jacket for details.

 

 

Sorry Must disagree, In the mid 1980s I was unfortunate enough to be sent on a Service Writing course as a prerequisite to getting my tate & lyles, we were all armed with the trusty JSP 101 titled " Service Writing" I still have that said document with its annex containing official abbreviations and DPM is clearly "Distruptive Pattern Material". in those days the use of abbreviations was actively encouraged, in this modern time they are not however and under its current title of Defence Writing the trusty book no longer contains a list of official abbreviations; However be assured DPM has only ever had one meaning .

 

TTFN TED

[fv1609]

DPM is DISPERSED Pattern Material.............A dispersed pattern consists of swirls to break up the pattern. See a combat jacket for details.

 

Manual of Army Ordnance Services Volume 1. Pamphlet No.15 Glossary of Terms and Abbreviations in Ordnance Usage. 1978.

 

[ted angus]

Clive,

I knew I wasn't due a visit to specsavers !!

 

TED

[AlienFTM]

Well, whilst I ought to respect the Army bibles, sorry but I simply cannot. They may call it disruptive in their manuals until they are blue in the face, but the pattern of camouflage is dispersed, not disruptive and they are wrong.

 

I'll posit that they derived the abbreviation for the Dennison during the war, when it was indeed disruptive and when the rest of the army got combats, the manual writers either forgot or were ignorant (by which I do not mean stupid) and failed to update the book.

 

Throughout my career, people who knew always taught me Dispersed, and explained the difference because in Recce camouflage makes a difference and people who called it Disruptive got slapped. I believe that like elsewhere, people these days just become sloppy and allow errors to become fact (like ASCII - see below).

 

I shall accept that you have documentary proof that, according to a reliable book, I am wrong. It is just sad that errors like this in important documents do not get stamped on.

 

The more I think about this, I now vaguely remember exchanging a combat jacket in Paderborn (which dates it as 1977 - 1982) and noticing that the label, instead of saying "SMOCK MAN'S COMBAT DPM", said "SMOCK MAN'S COMBAT DISPERSED".

 

Thinking further, I remember a friend whose mother worked in a factory churning out combats and they always used the word "dispersed".This implies to me that people who did not have "disruptive" burnt onto the brain learned the correct term not the official term.

 

A challenge. Tell me was ASCII stands for. I'll give you a clue. You'll find hundreds of thousands of wrong answers on the internet but my search returns less than two thousand right answers. (In the days when search engines were primitive, I only found EIGHT correct answers on the entire internet, one of which was the website of the body which owns it.)

[ArtistsRifles]

No doubt you'll tell me I'm wrong but....

 

I was always taught it stood for American Standard Code for Information Interchange whenever the topic came up in the Oracle, Windows and Linux admin courses.

[Stone]

No doubt you'll tell me I'm wrong but....

 

I was always taught it stood for American Standard Code for Information Interchange whenever the topic came up in the Oracle, Windows and Linux admin courses.

Likewise (since my BBC Micro, anyway), and there's a copy of the standard which agrees...tell us more!

 

Stone

[Marmite!!]

Seen this one before, it didn't sell then and I don't think it will sell now! It's sad but these people think they are adding value to a vehicle by customising it, when in reality they are making it nearer worthless to any potential buyers. The 'bling' Ferret is the classic example, £10000 spent said the owner, he could only sell it for around £2000. If it was original it would have kept the value, if not appreciated.

 

As bad as this one.. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?p=154360

[ted angus]

Well, whilst I ought to respect the Army bibles, sorry but I simply cannot. They may call it disruptive in their manuals until they are blue in the face, but the pattern of camouflage is dispersed, not disruptive and they are wrong.

 

I'll posit that they derived the abbreviation for the Dennison during the war, when it was indeed disruptive and when the rest of the army got combats, the manual writers either forgot or were ignorant (by which I do not mean stupid) and failed to update the book.

 

Throughout my career, people who knew always taught me Dispersed, and explained the difference because in Recce camouflage makes a difference and people who called it Disruptive got slapped. I believe that like elsewhere, people these days just become sloppy and allow errors to become fact (like ASCII - see below).

 

I shall accept that you have documentary proof that, according to a reliable book, I am wrong. It is just sad that errors like this in important documents do not get stamped on.

 

The more I think about this, I now vaguely remember exchanging a combat jacket in Paderborn (which dates it as 1977 - 1982) and noticing that the label, instead of saying "SMOCK MAN'S COMBAT DPM", said "SMOCK MAN'S COMBAT DISPERSED".

 

Thinking further, I remember a friend whose mother worked in a factory churning out combats and they always used the word "dispersed".This implies to me that people who did not have "disruptive" burnt onto the brain learned the correct term not the official term.

 

A challenge. Tell me was ASCII stands for. I'll give you a clue. You'll find hundreds of thousands of wrong answers on the internet but my search returns less than two thousand right answers. (In the days when search engines were primitive, I only found EIGHT correct answers on the entire internet, one of which was the website of the body which owns it.)

 

 

I didn't need my bible I knew the answer. By the way my oldest son he has 21 years under his belt, his partner 20 years, my youngest son 16 years service and his wife 17 years service -- 3 of the 4 of them are still serving all turned up for tiffin this afternoon -- the girls are taking part in a charity 10km on the Forth bridge tomorrow I showed them your post, they were shocked someone with previous service was so confused .

 

TED

 

39 years service much of it wearing disruptive pattern material.

[AlienFTM]

I spent the weekend looking on the internet for back-up of my claims. (I do have books but they are in deep archive and I am not going to turn the house upside down.) I found only one site which backed up my claim in a roundabout way, an apparently ancient manual on Waffen-SS camouflage patterns.

 

Clearly, history has been changed underneath me and I am now wrong. I apologise to anybody I have annoyed with this argument. Hereafter, I shall refer to DPM simply as DPM and if anybody ever asks what it stands for, I'll hold my tongue and shan't get dragged into the argument.

 

This is what happens when a mistake is allowed to propagate and turn into a monster. In another generation, all history will be politically correct and our grandchildren will be taking exams in txtspk instead of English.

 

I hope this draws a line and I can come out of my stone at some point.

[Lardrover]

FWIW, when I read posts from yourself (both here and on ARRSE), and a few others who post on this forum, I really do consider it to be informed from personal experience, impartial, concise and well intended. I'd only ever heard of Disruptive Pattern, never Dispersal. Odd thing is, if I look up definitions of Disruptive and Dispersal, Dispersal seems to fit the bill better.

 

I could find few references to Dispersed although Displacement features as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_Pattern_Material

 

If anything, this thread will probably be dragged up each and every time someone asks what DPM stands for so sooner or later there amy be an explanation as to why it started off being called one thing, and then changed to another. Perhaps using the word Dispersal was considered too close to some other contemporary nomenclature, such as NBC drill or even the V-Force. A bit like Tockwith being called RAF Marston Moor as it was so close to RAF Topcliffe. Yes, those two examples were a bit of a stretch but the best I could conjure up right now.

[ted angus]

I spent the weekend looking on the internet for back-up of my claims. (I do have books but they are in deep archive and I am not going to turn the house upside down.) I found only one site which backed up my claim in a roundabout way, an apparently ancient manual on Waffen-SS camouflage patterns.

 

Clearly, history has been changed underneath me and I am now wrong. I apologise to anybody I have annoyed with this argument. Hereafter, I shall refer to DPM simply as DPM and if anybody ever asks what it stands for, I'll hold my tongue and shan't get dragged into the argument.

 

This is what happens when a mistake is allowed to propagate and turn into a monster. In another generation, all history will be politically correct and our grandchildren will be taking exams in txtspk instead of English.

 

I hope this draws a line and I can come out of my stone at some point.

 

Dear Mr Alien (sorry I don't know your name) you certainly haven't annoyed me, I don't consider this an arguement we are adults and to me its a debate and debate is a very healthy as far as I am concerned; debate forms a fmost usefull part of these forums, I am sure we have all lived under misnowmer at some time or other I know I have on several occassions.

Now don't get me going on text speak -- the curse of the english language.

 

Please come out of your stone !!!

regards TED

[nuttydon]

So heres a teaser then . . .

 

If you buy a vehicle straight from MOD (Withams) but with a limited history i.e. its 'card' stops in the mid 70's, but the vehicle has an SA80 gun rack fitted what do you do? Take out the gun rack and restore it to mid 70's or take a best, educated guess and using actual user evidence do it to 80's or early 90's when it must have still been in service!

 

I have chosen to put mine to 1989 use - i.e when the last exercise of the Cold war happened. But even then a lot of the radio gear was very secret and often changed or refitted on a regular basis - so what do I do/fit in it - mine was converted to a Telegraph Station Carrier Mounted in '72. I don't just want the basic shell as released, I want it as it was in service i.e. a bit tatty but fitted out right down to the correct sleeping bags and tins of german food kicking around (it was BAOR).

 

As for carrying too much gear - have you seen photos of 432's in service just about anywhere - they could not carry much more if they tried. Just talk to the drivers of them - they 'acquired' everything they could to make life comfortable .

 

Oh and I agree we should mostly respect the vehicles but don't for one moment tell me the original owners always did - I have had so many previous 432 drivers tell me the various ways they used to break theirs so they could get out of excersices ?! I am amazed any got anywhere

 

Don

[LoggyDriver]

So heres a teaser then . . .

 

If you buy a vehicle straight from MOD (Withams) but with a limited history i.e. its 'card' stops in the mid 70's, but the vehicle has an SA80 gun rack fitted what do you do? Take out the gun rack and restore it to mid 70's or take a best, educated guess and using actual user evidence do it to 80's or early 90's when it must have still been in service!

 

I have chosen to put mine to 1989 use - i.e when the last exercise of the Cold war happened. But even then a lot of the radio gear was very secret and often changed or refitted on a regular basis - so what do I do/fit in it - mine was converted to a Telegraph Station Carrier Mounted in '72. I don't just want the basic shell as released, I want it as it was in service i.e. a bit tatty but fitted out right down to the correct sleeping bags and tins of german food kicking around (it was BAOR).

 

As for carrying too much gear - have you seen photos of 432's in service just about anywhere - they could not carry much more if they tried. Just talk to the drivers of them - they 'acquired' everything they could to make life comfortable .

 

Oh and I agree we should mostly respect the vehicles but don't for one moment tell me the original owners always did - I have had so many previous 432 drivers tell me the various ways they used to break theirs so they could get out of excersices ?! I am amazed any got anywhere

 

Don

 

 

 

You should have seen what REME did with their vehicles in my old Regiment. Even our G10 was a home from home...:cool2:

[AlienFTM]

No doubt you'll tell me I'm wrong but....

 

I was always taught it stood for American Standard Code for Information Interchange whenever the topic came up in the Oracle, Windows and Linux admin courses.

 

Close but no coconut. You have to understand that ASCII was a standard derived by (or registered with, whatever) the American National Standards Institute (ANSI: equivalent to BSI).

 

So in fact there is a document somewhere in their archives which defines the American Standard for Character Information Interchange.

 

But because everybody talks about ASCII Code, the assumption is that ASCII is as you say and the whole internet now refers to it as do you. It's another battle I have struggled to fight, but ... oh what's the point?

 

If only Mr Gates had used the pre-existing EBCDIC as his character code-set, life would have been so much simpler, especially for us mainframosuarus dinosaurs.

 

lol

 

Edit.

p.s. Smile back on face, back out from under stone and ready for the full half hour argument.

 

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/argument.html

 

Angry man:

WHADDAYOU WANT?

 

Man:

Well, Well, I was told outside that...

 

Angry man:

DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS!

 

Man:

What?

Angry man:

SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS TOFFEE-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!

 

Man:

Yes, but I came here for an argument!!

Angry man:

OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse!

 

Man:

Oh! Oh I see!

Angry man:

Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door.

 

M:

Oh...Sorry...

Angry man:

Not at all!

(under his breath) stupid git.

Edited August 11, 2009 by AlienFTM

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Heres one for you to get upset about.

[paul connor]

Is that in Disperse pattern? HAHAAHH

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

:rofl:Looks disruptive to me.

[Tony B]

What ever happned to 'It's there vehicle they can do what they like ' then? :-D

[Poptopshed]

Best Looking Jeep i have seen in awhile. :-D

[nuttydon]

All that work and he didn't go for long travel coilovers - he just de-leafed the old springs and fitted extended shackles. (sorry i'll get me 'off roaders' anorak now)

 

Old AWDC habits die hard :cool2:

[gritineye]

All that work and he didn't go for long travel coilovers - he just de-leafed the old springs and fitted extended shackles. (sorry i'll get me 'off roaders' anorak now)

 

Old AWDC habits die hard :cool2:

 

And then added those torque arms working in a completely different radius than the springs........that'll work well then. as you say, old AWDC habits.

[LeeEnfield]

old AWDC habits.

 

:sweat:carefull guys, all this talk of the old style AWDC,............make's me feel Oooooooooooooooooooooooold.:shake:

Just how many of us are out there in HMVF land;.....yup, that includes you CW. ......:-D

[Tony B]

GUILTY! Back in the days of Peter's Pit. Still see vehicles with that damm chalk stuck on.

[Chrisg]

:sweat:carefull guys, all this talk of the old style AWDC,............make's me feel Oooooooooooooooooooooooold.:shake:

Just how many of us are out there in HMVF land;.....yup, that includes you CW. ......:-D

 

Guilty

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

What ever happned to 'It's there vehicle they can do what they like ' then? :-D

You tell me.