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sirhc

Originality

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Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but get more and more wound up when I see vehicles with all sorts of junk bolted on to them. I really can't understand why people can't be happy with what they've got. Instead they either try to make them into something they aren't, or just bolt bits on because they feel like it. Land Rovers are the worst, I've just looked through the photos of Chatham at the weekend and here's a selection of what I'm talking about...

 

1) This Lightweight was probably released before Clansman came in to service. Why is it wearing a Clansman wing box? Why does that wing box have a current issue Bowman sticker on it?

 

P1110836.jpg

 

 

2) Where do we start on this? What's with the lights? Why the mesh covers? Chequer plate, after market headlamp guards, WMIK bonnet basket, again Clansman wing box and Bowman sticker. What really amuses me is the Wolf air intake and snorkel. Surely it's one or the other?!

 

P1110838.jpg

 

 

3) A really nice Lightweight, ruined by the Clansman antenna base bolted straight on the wing. If you knew how these radios worked, you'd know this would never have been installed like this.

 

P1110840.jpg

 

4) G90 tyres, Wolf wheels, tow rope on bonnet fair enough I suppose... but again my pet hate for the day, Bowman sticker on a Clansman wing box!

 

P1110844.jpg

 

 

When taking photos of vehicles at shows you really need to be careful with these. I know it's up to the owner to do whatever they want with the vehicle, but people new to the hobby or general public might not know any better. It's a real shame to see some nice vehicle ruined by bolt on crap. I'm begining to wonder if any 110s will make it into preservation without any Wolf bits bolted on.

 

Rant over, I think I'd better go for a lie down..........

 

Chris

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we all cant be and dont want to be rivet counters......if its upto the owners to do what they want like you say , leave it upto them then......

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I guess my point is its always these pimped vehicles we see in magazines or on the web, rather than accurate vehicles.

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Ok, not always, but often... look at the Ferret on the cover of CMV a few months back, it looked like a Christmas tree, yet there are loads of good Ferrets out there.

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I love all the dressed up Jeeps with every bolt on goody that can be bought!!!!! especially the Hotchkiss 101st Airbourne jeeps!!! how did they get them all in the planes?

 

 

and yes, the markings on my own Jeep are post war, The British army still had them in service in 1947! and NO they didn't have sirens! aaaarrrgggghhhhh!!!

 

 

rant over :-)

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
we all cant be and dont want to be rivet counters......if its upto the owners to do what they want like you say , leave it upto them then......

I think the difference between rivet counting and being correct is vastly different.If you want to tack a lot of kit thats missed match etc thats fine.If you want to put them on a merry go round so the kids can ride on them thats even better because thats where they belong.My pet hate is no plates.90% of all vehicles show there civi number and no effort is made to remove them at shows.ok they may be black and white but why bother,go on have a look through the pics posted,i bet a lot of you are guilty of this one.

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I really feel that if we wish to preserve historic military vehicles rather than just ride around in green-painted Govt. surplus then we have to learn to count rivets. Researching a vehicle is surely an integral part of the hobby ?

 

As far as I'm concerned, owners can stick what they like on their vehicles but displaying brings special responsibilities.

 

Re-enactors are heavy on their 'farbs' (but on the other hand many of then love to pretend that Chiang Jiangs are WW2 BMWs which is about the most heinous crime in my book).

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Finally, I'm not alone! :D

 

I know what you mean about the plates CW, I have magnetic or easily removable plates for all of the armour and the Wolf. Only vehicle I don't swap the plates on is the Lightweight, but I'll order some if it makes you happy!

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
I'll order some if it makes you happy!

Dont forget the rd traffic act applies to the showground therefore we will all be commiting an offence.

But you know what who gives a fig,anyone approaches me i will siht in his hat and punch it.:-D

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I love all the dressed up Jeeps with every bolt on goody that can be bought!!!!! especially the Hotchkiss 101st Airbourne jeeps!!! how did they get them all in the planes?

 

 

and yes, the markings on my own Jeep are post war, The British army still had them in service in 1947! and NO they didn't have sirens! aaaarrrgggghhhhh!!!

 

 

rant over :-)

My jeep came out of service in 1958. Was in use at No1 Command worksshops, Aldershot. Maybe one of the last in service. John

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)

Crikey you are alive only talking about you at the wk end.thought you had fallen down a hole or something.dont worry it was all complimentary.

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I think the difference between rivet counting and being correct is vastly different.If you want to tack a lot of kit thats missed match etc thats fine.If you want to put them on a merry go round so the kids can ride on them thats even better because thats where they belong.My pet hate is no plates.90% of all vehicles show there civi number and no effort is made to remove them at shows.ok they may be black and white but why bother,go on have a look through the pics posted,i bet a lot of you are guilty of this one.

touble is cw sometimes you forget about the mil plates and drive home with them still on...lol..i haven't but know a few that have...

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
touble is cw sometimes you forget about the mil plates and drive home with them still on...lol..i haven't but know a few that have...

I do it all the time especially the back one,us old duffers a we shouldnt be let out on our own.:-D

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What is "originality" many mods were done in the field, most famous the Sherman tank with the "Bank buster" welded on the front . Today our armoured vehicles in combat zones have add on armour that was not originally envisaged. I have had idiots come up to me and tell me that my SAS land rover wasnt right because it was painted green and black and not pink. I believe in your assment of the various Land Rovers, too new for me to know anything about them, but as for WWII vehicles ,once used in combat many had add ons which the purists today drip on about. Colonel Weld told me that he had two leather seats fitted into his Jeep in Italy. That would make the "Rivet Counters" have a fit if that was done to a Jeep today. My pet hate is Hotchkiss Jeeps done up as a WWII jeep. John

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I passed comment on here last year after seeing a NEKAF M38A1 at a show which was bearing American markings & had the original data plates replaced with repro American ones . I asked then what the point was ? It is the same as the multitude of Hotchkiss jeeps as already spoken about by BP44 . What is wrong with exhibiting the machine as a NEKAF jeep & explaining the reasons & differences for those who don't know ?

Edited by snowtracdave
speiling

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I might be guilty of making my rover something it isnt, if I went for originality, it would be in NI Armour, but as my interest is in the RAF Regiment, my rover has a RAF roundal on it, and when I get the equipment together, it will be shown as a recce rover.(my vehicle, my rules)

 

I have a home made mil number plate, and yes, it goes on at shows, but only at the front, by rights the tax disc and holder should also be taken out.

 

I once drove off a show with it still on the front (also a military police plate!!!) but remembered them before got to far down the road!!!)

 

I know I said my vehicles, my rules, but bowman stickers on clansman boxes are just plain silly!!! as for 110s made to look partly like a wolf.............

 

Mark

 

PS, she also has a civvy rear crossmember

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I think originality should mean the vehicle should appear as it was in service. I see no problem with bolting something on of the correct period, or marking it up to make it a bit more interesting. If you're going to build a 109 recce Rover then I think that's fine, as long as you keep it correct to the period.

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We will probably annoy a few people at W&P this year with our Gulf war replica Land Rover Discovery. They were out there (we have pictures), they were painted in desert sand and some had invasion chevrons painted on. Some had military plates and some wore Saudi plates (we have both for display...).

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About Hotchkiss.

My brother bought 1 years ago, Willys 1942 on the papers and most of the WW2 trimmings (stars, bonnet rest for the window etc).

 

He eventually painted it desert yellow, no markins and correct window rest.

Its a Hotchkiss and he doesn't want to make it look like a WW2 one.

Still I can imagine people making it look like a WW2 one.

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I think originality should mean the vehicle should appear as it was in service. I see no problem with bolting something on of the correct period, or marking it up to make it a bit more interesting. If you're going to build a 109 recce Rover then I think that's fine, as long as you keep it correct to the period.

 

yep it will be correct for the period, could even paint it desert sand, the Regiment took their 109s with them, the only prob I have is that I havnt got many piccys of them, and the only ones in green are left hand drive!!!

 

Mark

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I think originality should mean the vehicle should appear as it was in service.

 

I would be interested to know what you think of engine and drive train changes that can't be seen but can be heard?

 

I am guilty of this sin, reluctantly and as a last resort though, I think the sound is as important as the look of an old vehicle.

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I would be interested to know what you think of engine and drive train changes that can't be seen but can be heard?

 

I am guilty of this sin, reluctantly and as a last resort though, I think the sound is as important as the look of an old vehicle.

 

 

mine has a 2.5 na in it, and it is staying!!!!! (doesnt sound right, but far more economical than a 2.25 petrol)

 

Mark

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Yes, sound is important, I can't imagine a Ferret without the B60 burbling away. Maybe my last post was a bit narrow minded... I know that sometimes you have to compromise originality to keep a vehicle on the road, or improve safety such as adding indicators and mirrors. If the engine change keeps a vehicle on the road rather than on a slow boat to China then I can't see anything wrong with that!

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