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Taking your MV abroad


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I know this was touched on in the Normandy thread but though it was worth posting again for those that missed it...

 

Information recently forwarded to me:

 

A statement from Edwina Wontner, Information Manager, Export Control Organisation, Department for Business Enterprise and Regulatory

Reform (BERR)

 

" Certain items may not be exported from the UK (even temporarily) without a valid export licence. The UK's Export Control Organisation (part of the Department for Business) is responsible for licensing items that are or could be used for military purposes. This includes historic military vehicles.

 

If you are a military vehicle owner, and wish to take your vehicle to another EU Member State for up to 3 months, you may be able to use what is known as an Open General Export Licence (OGEL). In order to do so you must register for the Historic Military Vehicles OGEL via SPIRE (ECO's licence application database) - https://www.spire.bis.gov.uk/eng/fox/espire/LOGIN/login

 

Licences are subject to specific terms and conditions, which you must read carefully, understand and fully adhere to.

 

If you cannot fulfill all the conditions set out in the licence, or wish to export your vehicle to a non-EU country, or to export it permanently, you will need a different licence and should contact ECO for more advice. More information about the work of the ECO is available at www.berr.gov.uk/exportcontrol "

 

Edited by Marmite!!
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Whaaaaat! I'd missed that.

 

Some more links here:

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/beginners-guide/index.html

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/rating/self-rate/index.html

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/latest-news/notice-to-exporters/page51664.html

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/licences/ogels/military/page51544.html

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51545.pdf

 

From what I can make out on a quick read:

 

- Exporting restricted goods requires a licence.

- You also need licence to move goods on the military list to other European countries. This includes items under category ML6 (i.e. ground vehicles, containers and components)

- Some items are covered by an Open General Export Licence - open to anyone, no need to apply, just register.

- There's an OGEL for historic military vehicles (i.e. ones manufactured 50 years or more before the export date and to be exported to EU countries for not more than three months.)

 

Of note, the OGEL came out on 26 May 2009. No doubt it dawned on someone that a contingent of historic MVs not attending the D-Day commemorations due to red tape may not be a politically good thing - the press release is dated 3 June!

 

Have a close read of the last document above. It makes it clear that you have two months to regsiter from when you take your MV abroad and have to maintain paperwork (ferry tickets?) for four years. It's not entirely clear what the penalty for failure is - possibly revocation of the OGEL, which just means hassle in the future for those who are compliant.

 

I assume there's a different procedure if you are selling to someone abroad. But I can't believe the paperwork will be too onerous.

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I had this panic pre my Somme trip. We turned up at Chunnel Folkestone without one and not a word was said. If I plan to do this again I'll plan well in advance. These beaurocrats have gone mad. If I was exporting a serious weapon I'd understand. But it applies to any vehicle. There is no age limit. I gather IMPS and the MVT are looking at it and they have the lobbying power to sort something.

 

The joy of living in a free europe.

 

M

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In some ways I think we should ignore such export licences if we are just taking our MV for a quick nip over to France or Holland for a few days. The more you entertain such stupid laws the more they will make your life a missery by 'creeping rule changes' (as we know has happened with VCR).

 

My Lightweight Land Rover is described as a Land Rover Estate on the DVLA V5 so do they really care and would the one guy with his hands in his pockets in charge of UK Customs at Dover know what to look for.

 

I wonder how many of our EU friends coming to War & Peace will have the correct documents- or is it only the UK that follows the rules!

 

On the other hand I do like the idea of inundating the system with export licences. How about applying for every item carried in our MVs so that the Civil Service could not cope and if they say a licence is not required then you should write back saying that it is required, according to your interpretation of the rules and when they write back saying this and that is exempt keep the letter as proof and that they never intended to target collectors of old vehicles!

 

As one blog on the EU stated - 'No, nobody meant for something quite so stupidly amusing (or enraging, to taste) to happen. But it reveals the fault at the heart of the entire project. It simply isn't possible to write a rule book for 450 million people from the centre without such idiocies occuring. It doesn't matter how much the planners and bureaucrats try to avoid such things, doesn't matter whether they mean well or not. Such things will always happen. Which is, of course, why such things should never be planned at all.'

Edited by LarryH57
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I can't imagine that they do care about historic MVs - the fact that the paperwork can be done after the event and the lack of any obvious penalty for non-compliance (as far as I can see) demonstrates that.

 

Some of the issues to my mind, which I hope the MVT & IMPS are picking up on, include:

- Why have a class exemption limited to temporary exports but not permanent exports?

- Why distinguish between EU and non-EU temporary exports?

- Why have a class exemption using OGELs rather than an exclusion within ML6?

- Why is 'historic' defined as 50 years rather than the DVLA definition (others may want to debate which is more appropriate)

- What is a military vehicle for the purpose of the regime? Does a vehicle designed for military use cease to be a MV once it passes from Government to civvy hands? Is an impressed or militarised civvy vehicle a military vehicle for the purposes of the regime?

- Does ML6 cover both armour and softskin vehicles? Why the concern on soft-skins?

- Is the regime EU compliant? e.g. How does it fit in with right to freedom of movement?

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I suppose that this legislation is a consequence of international organisations dictating to us which bunches of third world retards we're allowed to sell arms and military equipment to. Logically, if the end-user is not known and the powers that be think that they can control this then they have to try to monitor everything.

 

I wonder if the UK is more extreme because it falls outside of the Schengen agreement and that countries inside of that zone don't have to monitor traffic within it ?

 

Do mainland europeans need import docs to bring MVs into the UK and if not, how do they get them out again ? Once they've been imported, that's it. They have to stay there !

 

My personal feeling is that a blanket exemption is needed for private property below a certain value but I can't see a logical way to draw up the rules. The intention to re-import should not be the criteria because we should all have the right to sell our own property wherever we like. The MOD has been happy enough to sell surplus stocks and now the government is applying caveats to the ownership.

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I've booked the Militant and one of the Explorers for the IMPS run to Bethune in September, and have had no info on this at all? Although it doesn't worry me a great deal; I love the idea of camping in Dover or Calais for a few days chatting to TV crews about the short comings of the EU/British government. Another piece of quality legislation, doubtless brought in the back door under the cover of darkness!

 

Jules

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I've booked the Militant and one of the Explorers for the IMPS run to Bethune in September, and have had no info on this at all? Although it doesn't worry me a great deal; I love the idea of camping in Dover or Calais for a few days chatting to TV crews about the short comings of the EU/British government. Another piece of quality legislation, doubtless brought in the back door under the cover of darkness!

 

Jules

 

There's a bit about it in the June IMPS newsletter..

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Just wondering - If you buy an ex-military Ford Escort car, do these regulations still apply? It's only a car and would be identical to a civilian car, just has MoD as the first user.

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The man I spoke to at the Ministry of Fun said it refers to military spec axles and chassis. So I would think a car doesn't count. He claimed to own a an ex-mil Landy and was "really sympathetic". I can still hear his horrid laughter. Not amused. Silly rule. Silly people. Serious consequences.

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The link takes you to the legislation

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20083231_en_9

 

Just to add to the debate, my interpretation is that if you have a 12v Ex MOD Landrover you dont need one. But for a 24v FFR you do?

 

AndyB

 

And this springs to mind.

Would you ALSO need a permit for an Ex Military Push bike?

After all, it's a vehicle (Sort of!) & it's Ex Military!..............:???

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And this springs to mind.

Would you ALSO need a permit for an Ex Military Push bike?

After all, it's a vehicle (Sort of!) & it's Ex Military!..............:???

 

At least my bike is over fifty years old! :-D But I do take the 101 abroad,

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  • 3 weeks later...

It says, "Items that are or could be used for military purposes". what exactly does that mean? lots of cilivian vehcles could be used for military purpose, and in fact are, is every landrover that goes to france going to need one of these?

 

My truck was used for a military purpose once, but i wouldn't fancy it's chances now, does that make me exempt? :-D

 

And it does say "certain items". So maybe it won't apply to everyone.

Edited by rippo
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I phoned them on Friday and got a snooty woman explaining they dealt with businesses, so I hung up and checked that I'd dialed the right number. Sure enough I dialed again at 12.08 to be greeted by an answerphone telling me their opening hours 9-12 2-5, nice job if you can get one?? Leave a message and they'll call back!

 

Called again later Friday, same message, left both work and mobile numbers?

 

Called again today, same message, left both numbers again!

 

Luckily the IMPS trip isn't until September, so I can carry on this daily until then in the hope someone can be bothered to do their job as a clearly overworked civil service employee?

 

Jules

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I phoned them on Friday and got a snooty woman explaining they dealt with businesses, so I hung up and checked that I'd dialed the right number. Sure enough I dialed again at 12.08 to be greeted by an answerphone telling me their opening hours 9-12 2-5, nice job if you can get one?? Leave a message and they'll call back!

 

Called again later Friday, same message, left both work and mobile numbers?

 

Called again today, same message, left both numbers again!

 

Luckily the IMPS trip isn't until September, so I can carry on this daily until then in the hope someone can be bothered to do their job as a clearly overworked civil service employee?

 

Jules

 

Why are you phoning? you register & apply for a licence online...

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