Great War truck Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Tim ! I love you can you make me some water pumps for the Cart Water Tank ????? i cant do them they dont have grain or growth rings !!! and they would mess up my saw blades ! You are asking the wrong person! With your skill in carpentry i would think that you could make a wooden pattern and get them cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthecorner Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well, I am no professionally trained machinist and what I do is fiddle around and learn as I go! However, from what I know, no coolant is used when machining Cast Iron. With mild steel, then I use a cutting oil fed in from an old Fairy Liquid bottle - and take small cuts so that I can clearly see what is going on. I expect the professionals will throw their hands up into the air - but it seems to work for me! Tony Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Tim ! I love you can you make me some water pumps for the Cart Water Tank ????? i cant do them they dont have grain or growth rings !!! and they would mess up my saw blades ! Hold on! Valentines Day isn't until tomorrow! Tim is right though. Your mock-ups don't look too complicated. You could easily produce a pattern to have the bodies cast in gunmetal. Machining shouldn't be too tricky. Do you have drawings of the pumps? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse Transport Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) I have only pictures and the drawings which show them please see attached ,the pumps can be seen standing upright at the rear of the cart i believe they are called differential pumps ? sadly a blurred image of them here too amongst the other parts, kindest regards Nige Edited February 19, 2012 by Horse Transport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hi Nige. Let's continue this chat on your water tanker thread. In the mean time, please could you let me have the diameter of the wheel so that the pump drawing can be scaled? Also, which way does the water flow through it? It looks as if it should be top to bottom but can you confirm? I know it is a silly question but why do you need a pump at all? What is the pump doing? If you poured water in the top, it would simply drain out of the bottom! Cheers! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 The machining of the four Locking Sleeves for the Inlet Valve Caps and the Dogs has now been mainly completed - all there is left to do here is to cut the flanges back on the Dogs to leave the "Tags" which will lock into the top of the cylinders. This could be done now, but we plan to leave that just for the moment and get on with the Dogs for the Exhaust Valve Caps - as although those Valve Caps are of quite a different pattern from the Inlet side, they have identical "Tags" and the machining and cutting back of all eight can be done at the same time. To lock the Exhaust Valve Caps in place, there is simply a 5/8" Whit Set Screw which goes through the Exhaust Valve Cap to hold the cap in place - a much more simple arrangement from the Inlet side which has to accommodate the Spark Plugs The set screw has a small head and screws as purchased have been machined back to conform with the originals. A drawing of the Exhaust Valve Cap Dog is included for you to see. Steve is joining Tony in Devon for a few days, today and they plan to get on with stripping the whole engine - and also the "half-engine" down as time permits. Quantities of "Plus Gas" have been injected into the engine during the past few weeks in the hope that this will free things up. Further reports to follow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Steve and Dad have spent the day stripping the Thorny engine. They tried to lift a block off but the big end jammed between the crankshaft and the crank case so they decided to drop the crank instead. The did this by taking the weight behind the flywheel with the chain block and then removing the bearing caps before lowering the crank to the ground. This was successful although there was a moment of puzzlement when the end hung up in the camshaft gears and would not drop. Fortunately, one camshaft could be encouraged to rotate enough to release it. After that, the blocks lifted off very easily and these too were laid on the ground. Unfortunately, the bores have proven rustier than we hoped so getting the pistons out is not going to be easy. Once the blocks were off, they could remove the cam followers and tappets. These are quite heavily corroded and will need some work to bring them back. Next move was to withdraw the camshafts. After removing the bearing locking bolts, these knocked through quite easily although they did manage to break the governor operating yoke. This was unfortunate but it was so corroded that it would have had to have been replaced anyway. The main cam gears don't look too bad but several of the cams are very pitted which is not good news. Work on the full engine stopped at this point and they started on the half-engine. The cam followers and what can be seen of the cams look much better on this engine so we will probably use these instead. They plan to carry on stripping it down tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Looking good! Amazing how the flywheel is attached to the crank by a rectangular flange. Just out of curiousitiy, what are the diameters of crankshaft, flywheel and bore? I guess the cams can be built up and reground, or you can make new ones and lock them in place. Regards Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 A very interesting part of the restoration The truth is revealed Cam gears look good, Crank looks good Proportions of flywheel and crank are amazing, Good luck with the pistons Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Looking good! Amazing how the flywheel is attached to the crank by a rectangular flange. Just out of curiousitiy, what are the diameters of crankshaft, flywheel and bore? I guess the cams can be built up and reground, or you can make new ones and lock them in place. Regards Marcel The bore is 4 1/2" with a stroke of 6". I will measure the journals and flywheel later. We plan to work on the half-engine today as although that one has had the blocks missing for very many years, the cams and gears appear to be much better. Although the gears on the full engine look good, they have suffered where they have been touching and the crank pinion has two very bad teeth which is a great pity. Nothing we can't sort out, one way or another! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Steve and Dad have been stripping the half-engine down today. This has gone quite well with the removal of the extra pulley fitted at some time followed by the timing cover. This revealed the gears which are much better than those on the full engine except for the magneto drive gear which has a tooth broken off. The sump was then dropped and the big ends released to allow the pistons to be lifted out. The main bearing caps were removed and the crank dropped using the chain block. The crank looks good but the flywheel is heavily pitted on the clutch face so we plan to use the other one instead. Finally, an attempt was made to remove the camshafts but although the locking bolts were unscrewed they refused to move. The only result of hitting the end of the shafts with a hammer and block of aluminium was that the governor weights fractured with the shock. Closer inspection revealed that the bearing locking bolts had both sheared near their lower ends leaving the stubs behind to lock the shafts. Steve plans to try drilling them out tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Wow, what a project!! :wow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane.c Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Your right what a restoration, cant wait to see the end result, :-D Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Presumably you'll be using the crankcase from the half engine as well - it looks like a lug has fractured off the main engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Presumably you'll be using the crankcase from the half engine as well - it looks like a lug has fractured off the main engine? Yes - spot on, Alan! Covered in posting No. 138 of the 28th December, Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 A truly fascinating project. Love the engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes - spot on, Alan! Covered in posting No. 138 of the 28th December, Tony. I'd missed that! :thumbsup: I was looking at the pics at #207. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 A little more progress on the Thorny today. Steve and Dad removed the splash guards which prevent the oil from going up the bores. They are a bit ragged but should live to fight another day. Yesterday, the camshafts could not be removed and this was a bit of a puzzle. They laid the securing bolts side by side and it was instantly obvious that the bolts removed from this crank case were shorter than those taken from the complete engine. The remains of the bolts were left in the bottom of the hole preventing the shaft from moving so Steve proceeded to drill them out. This was successful and the shafts were safely removed. These cams and gears are first rate so they will be returned to the engine in due course. The last few bits were removed from the case and that is now ready for cleaning and stud repair. Finally, Steve had a go at one of the valves. He squeezed up the spring using a pin-punch. The collet was rusted to the valve stem so it stayed down whilst the pin was removed. Then more hammer and blowlamp treatment freed it up and the valve was knocked out. Unfortunately but perhaps not surprisingly, the valve stem is very worn and will require replacement. More valves tomorrow and then it will be time to extract the pistons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just out of curiousitiy, what are the diameters of crankshaft, flywheel and bore? Regards Marcel Hi Marcel. I remembered to measure it up today. The flywheel is 21 1/2" diameter and 4 1/2" thick. The journals are all 1 7/8" diameter. The combination is heavy! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 These arrived today. Thanks Glen, they will be put to good use. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 While you are stripping these engines down and cleaning the major parts, should you come across any stamped ID numbers that could relate to engine numbers I'll be interested to know. On the M4 engines here I have yet to locate any additional stamping of numbers aside from the ID plate. Doug:cheesy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Steve and Dad spent the morning removing the valves. Not too hard but they were well stuck and only moved after persistent gentle use of the hammer and a drift. Once freed up, a large valve spring compressor took the pressure off the cross pin in the end of each valve allowing them to be knocked through. None are good enough to re-use. One of the valve guides could be seen to have moved at some time in the past so Dad made up a drift and Steve knocked it out. It proved to be shorter than the others and exhibits a very strange repair. This will have to be replaced. The others remain to be closely inspected but we expect to have to replace the lot. Next job was to remove the water connection between the blocks. The bolt heads had almost rusted away so Steve took them off with the angle grinder and the casting followed. The shanks of the bolts remain and will have to be drilled out. The afternoon was spent making a puller to fit the big ends. Tomorrow will be the moment of truth when they try to extract the pistons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Is the water connection flexible in some way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The water connection consists of two castings and a rubber seal between (according to the manual). We have yet to part them but I anticipate complete destruction of the rubber when we do! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.