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WW1 Thornycroft restoration

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The Cap was then reversed in the chuck and held by the newly machined “hex”. Final outside diameters were machined and the inside bored out, ready for the final screw cutting.

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Screw cutting completed – and it fits!

 

Two more jobs to be done on it – the neck has to be silver soldered to the bolting flange and the flange then has to be reduced to 3/16” in thickness.

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We shall make the core ourselves – but this will be an expensive job. We shall need about 20,000 Gills to be thread on the tubes – these are available commercially and cost about £30 per thousand – you work out the cost of those!

 

I can imagine that it would be possible to make a press-punch to make these yourself with a hand press. I also imagine that after the first few thousand £30/1000 would start to look very cheap indeed.

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Yes Andy, just what I was thinking !

 

Actually 20,000 does sound an awfull lot, is that really the right number ?

 

David

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Actually 20,000 does sound an awfull lot, is that really the right number ?

 

I suspect that is is one of those things you get when you keep multiplying numbers together

 

8 per inch

x 30 inches of tube

x 4 tubes deep

x 15 tubes wide

x 3 radiators = 43,000...

 

So, I must have over-estimated some numbers, but it's easy to get there.

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So possibly only 14,400 for the one radiator, that is much better ! Mind you, they still have to be individualy threaded onto the tubes, presumably all the same way up. That would keep you out of trouble for a while. I think I will just watch from here :D.

 

David

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Earlier more specific calculations actually came up with the definitive answer of 22,000 Gills - I said 20,000 earlier as an illustrative approximation! No doubt Steve will pick this up later when he gets back from work and will be able tell you more!

 

Threading them on the tubes will not be a lot of fun - especially as they are square and must be placed on "square"! I visualise several people with sore fingers when we start on that game!

 

Tony

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I have just checked my notes regarding radiator cores for Thorny J types. I came up with a figure of 22000 when looking at the Portsmouth bus many years ago. However, we have had a much closer look at the Carlton Colville lorry and have found that there are 125 tubes which are 23" long between tube plates. The lorry has gills at 5 per inch giving a total of 14375 altogether which will save a few quid. The bus gills are at 8 per inch giving 23000 or thereabouts!

 

I must talk to a radiator manufacturer shortly and see what they can do for us. Threading the gills ourselves may be a trifle tedious but could save some money. We would then take the tubes back for dipping and soldering into the tube plates. Must get on the drawing board so we can get the brass ordered.

 

Steve

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Many thanks for that. They made the wings for both the Dennis and the Thornycroft. (The Thorny wings have been in the loft for twenty years!). They were nice to deal with.

 

The other contact I have is http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/ and they come recommended as well. I must have a chat and see what each can offer us.

 

I would like us to make as many bits ourselves as we can both for personal satisfaction and to keep the costs under control. This radiator is going to be one of the last three big lumps of expenditure on the project. It must be right though. It is the face of the lorry!

 

Steve

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The chaps at the vintage car radiator company are very, very knowledgable on all types of radiators. They make all their stuff in house so standby the workmanship. Although vintage car specialists they have made radiators for Hawker Hurricanes which will give you some idea as to the quality of their work.

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TonyWhere are you getting your gills from, is it Vintage Wings and Radiators. Did the pattern maker have existing letters for the Thornycroft on the radiator casting

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TonyWhere are you getting your gills from, is it Vintage Wings and Radiators. Did the pattern maker have existing letters for the Thornycroft on the radiator casting

 

No decision so far made about the Gills - Steve will explore the options! I don't think that any of us actually saw the patterns for the Thorny Radiator. It was all coordinated from Basingstoke and from the best of my memory, an old shot Thorny Radiator was supplied to the Pattern Maker and he worked from that -or it was made from that. Steve may be able to add to this when he comes along!

 

Tony

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Yes, the radiator pattern was made by building up a very poorly original and then making a core box to suit. the letters are not as crisp as I would like but will do the job. It was too good an opportunity to miss at the time.

 

I must get on the board shortly and draw up the whole lot so we can see what we want and decide which way to go. I want to get the brass ordered too.

 

Steve

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I bought 18,000 gills from Vintage Wings & Rad. for my Leyland Mkll Hippo. Thought I would be smart and save on freight (to Australia) by doing the threading and getting them dipped locally. What I have discovered is that all the old timers have passed away and I will have to re-invent the wheel. So, I would like to see the set up for soldering the gills on their tubes when it happens.

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I have just checked my notes regarding radiator cores for Thorny J types. I came up with a figure of 22000 when looking at the Portsmouth bus many years ago. However, we have had a much closer look at the Carlton Colville lorry and have found that there are 125 tubes which are 23" long between tube plates. The lorry has gills at 5 per inch giving a total of 14375 altogether which will save a few quid. The bus gills are at 8 per inch giving 23000 or thereabouts!

 

I must talk to a radiator manufacturer shortly and see what they can do for us. Threading the gills ourselves may be a trifle tedious but could save some money. We would then take the tubes back for dipping and soldering into the tube plates. Must get on the drawing board so we can get the brass ordered.

 

Steve

 

Father says the peerless is the same 5 per inch, and he also had child labour to help:-)

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Not a lot of activity on the Forum, these last few days – Steve has been busy fitting out and completing the final jobs in his “Motor House” and also drawing and scheming out the Thorny Radiator. We want to get that completed as soon as we can. A good friend has very kindly offered to shape and drill the top and bottom brass plates of the core on his CNC Mill and that has been a wonderfully kind offer which will save us a tremendous amount of time – and almost certainly do a far better and more precise job that we can do!

 

Tony decided as a bit of diversion to have a look at and fit the Headlamp brackets – but what should be one of the simplest of jobs, as always, never seems to work out that way! The brackets have a 1” Whit threaded male part to go into a 1” hole in the chassis rail.

 

We did not have any Headlamp brackets originally but very surprisingly and fortuitously found a genuine pair at the Banfield Auction last summer. From our collection of Thorny pictures, we knew exactly where they were fitted and when we got them home from the Sale, we expected to see a 1” diameter hole in the chassis rail in the correct place ready there to take them. They go in just behind the front support of the Radiator Defender – or “Bumper”’. The black and white picture will show you the fitting on an original lorry.

 

Just below that top 1” hole for the bracket is a 1/2” rivet which helps holds the cross member to the chassis rail. The 1” diam shank of the headlamp bracket should go through the rail and through the cross member.

 

But there was no 1” hole in our chassis rail and instead, there was a 1/2” hole which appears to have originally taken another 1/2” rivet – but that rivet and the equivalent one on the other side had already been removed.... We did not take them out and cannot really think why they could have been – unless it had been decided previously by somebody that Headlamp Brackets should be fitted there.

 

So we are now faced with opening up that 1/2” hole to 1” in diameter to take the bracket – but even that is not straight forward. That 1/2” hole has been placed too far back and close to the cross member where it is– so if that hole was just opened up, there would be no room for the 1” Whit Nut to secure the bracket. So all we can do there is to put the 1” hole in its correct position but the 1/2” hole is so far out of position, there is no way that the 1” hole can take that one completely out and part of it will remain and run in to the 1” hole. However, the flange on the bracket will cover that when it is finally fitted.

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Edited by Great War truck

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To get the 1” hole in the correct position, a bit of steel plate was drilled and bored out to 1” and clamped firmly in its correct position to act as guide. We have no facility to put the 1” hole there in one go and it has to be chain-drilled and then filed out – a miserable job in a restricted position with such a combined thickness of the rail and cross member to deal with!

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A trial fitting.

 

The 1” hole will have to be relieved at the face where the bracket goes through it so that the bracket can be pulled in tight – and a slot for a “feather” has to be filed in the top of the hole.

 

And now the other side to do!

 

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Hi Tim,

 

Good to meet up the other night. Is it possible that Thornycroft had more than one type of lamp bracket for the J type? I have seen a variation where the bracket is fixed to the chassis by two bolts arranged vertically. This version had the headlamps sitting in a yoke about level with the radiator brush bar. I would have posted a picture but had to give up due to incompetence.

 

Regards,

Tomo

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Does your other chassis have the 1 inch holes in it for the yokes? I couldn't find a picture (so many pictures... :D)

 

trevor

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[QUOTE=GeePig;460957]Does your other chassis have the 1 inch holes in it for the yokes? I couldn't find a picture (so many pictures... :D)

trevor

 

The only other bit of Thorny chassis that we have is the front half of one that came from North Wales many years ago - and yes, that does have the 1" holes in it - though they are still filled with 1" nuts and bolts. I can only guess that those must have been put in to help hold the thing together after the Lamp Brackets were removed and when that part-chassis was installed in a Pump House for further use.

 

Tony

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