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WW1 Thornycroft restoration


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One of our great finds at the Banfield auction last year was an inlet manifold complete with governor section. The tube and spindle were there but the butterfly was missing and the spindle was well-corroded in.

 

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We decided that we would like to fit it and connect up all of the linkage but would not put the actual butterfly back so it would only be for show. First job was to get the spindle out. This was done with some heat and persistent knocking with a mallet. Hit it one way and then another and then back once again, Eventually, it began to move and after a liberal application of Plus-Gas, it eventually came out.

 

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A stiff wire brushing revealed that it was a much more complex component than expected with a flat, oil grooves a split pin hole and a line across the end to indicate the butterfly position.

 

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It was a nice turning exercise in mild steel.

 

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A new 3/16" BSW nut was turned up to complete the components.

 

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Another part ready to fit.

 

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We had the full team assemble at Barrys place for a tyre pressing day. Really pleased that Barry put a block and tackle on the press.

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A little disappointingly the first tyres just dropped on to the wheel so we had to take it off and rip up some of Barrys prized canvas to fill the gap. It was all wet so it will help rust everything together.

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Then it was all hands to the pumps:

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Once that was on we put the second tyre on top and broke for tea

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Then back to pumping again:

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With great success and merriment all round:

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We then unloaded it and did the second one:

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With the benefit of hindsight we should have dropped it straight into the trailer. Instead we parked the trailer below an earth bank and rolled the wheels across a plank and dropped them down.

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Now Dad just has to unload them. Another pending big task is to select the best back axle, clean it up, paint and attach to the springs. Soon be on all four wheels again...........

 

Edward Box & Co Ltd used to buy the old hoses from the Liverpool Fire Brigade to cut them up and fit them between wheel and tyre to stop the wheels spinning in the tyres on the Scammell 100-tonner.

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Steve and Dad have been fitting stub axles today. Steve turned up some sleeves for the king pins to set them at the right height. These were driven on up to the shoulder.

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The stub axle was held up and the pin inserted from underneath , right up to the shoulder.

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The pin was then held in place by the securing nut with some spacers beneath whilst Steve cut the securing notches in the side of the pin.

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He tried to do this by simply drilling through the hole and feeding it in gingerly but it snagged and snapped off. He then resorted to an end mill in the drill, again fed very gingerly and this was successful although it did wander to one side slightly. He finished the job by using an expanding reamer to true up the hole. Finally, Father turned up a stud to match the hole with a slight interference and this was driven through and nutted on both ends. Hopefully, it won’t work loose!

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Then he repeated the exercise on the opposite size, again using the expanding reamer to clean the hole. Steve then managed to snap the reamer off, much to his disgust. Fortunately, this was on the last cut so Father made another pin and this was driven in as well.

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Steve then tried the brass cover on for size and both pins were secure.

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Finally, the nut was secured by inserting a split pin. This is a very unusual arrangement where the pin lies in a slot on the side of the king pin. It doesn’t inspire confidence but it must have been done for a reason and seems to have worked.

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The other side was then treated in the same fashion and the stub axles are now secure.

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Unfortunately, we have only one brass bearing cover so Steve will have to make up another. This one will be a challenge as it is 1/16” brass and nearly 4” deep. We will report on that in due course!

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It appears to be a deep drawing like a cartridge case. I will have to spin it, however. It is about 4" tall and parallel so getting it off the hardwood chuck will be tricky. Any suggestions would be welcome!

 

Steve

I know you like to keep things original but for the sake of time and your sanity, couldn't you make a two part one, brass tube and machine a cap end then because. Once dressed and machined you wouldn't see the join.

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Finally, the nut was secured by inserting a split pin. This is a very unusual arrangement where the pin lies in a slot on the side of the king pin. It doesn’t inspire confidence but it must have been done for a reason and seems to have worked.

 

Could the reason for that arrangement be that grease pressure would be lost if the pin went through the middle of the hollow kingpin?

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I know you like to keep things original but for the sake of time and your sanity, couldn't you make a two part one, brass tube and machine a cap end then because. Once dressed and machined you wouldn't see the join.

 

Yes, that is an option. A second string to my bow I think. I like a bit of a challenge as you might have guessed, and would like it in one piece if I can. I have never had the opportunity to talk to a spinner but I am sure there is one on this forum somewhere who can tell me how to do it!

 

Steve

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Yes, that is an option. A second string to my bow I think. I like a bit of a challenge as you might have guessed, and would like it in one piece if I can. I have never had the opportunity to talk to a spinner but I am sure there is one on this forum somewhere who can tell me how to do it!

 

Steve

 

Steve

 

What sort of diameter is it?

 

The boiler on a Bowman Jenkins E101 or M101 is supposedley 'drawn'

 

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Could the reason for that arrangement be that grease pressure would be lost if the pin went through the middle of the hollow kingpin?

 

I think that is the most likely reason. The grease would come out the sides as the stauffer was screwed down.

 

On that front, I shall screw in a Tecalemit grease point and prime it with a gun before fitting the stauffer. Much less messy!

 

Steve

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2 points of interest

best practise when putting bearings together is to pack the balls with grease as well as the race.

 

don't like the split pin holding the king pin nut from turning, I see there is a small groove in the thread for it to sit against, was the original pin solid? maybe even spring steel? even with a solid pin I would use 222 loctite on the thread for peace of mind that it will not come of while on public roads.

 

 

keep up the good work, I am enjoying this.

Thanks from Jake

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One of our great finds at the Banfield auction last year was an inlet manifold complete with governor section. The tube and spindle were there but the butterfly was missing and the spindle was well-corroded in.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100728[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100729[/ATTACH]

 

We decided that we would like to fit it and connect up all of the linkage but would not put the actual butterfly back so it would only be for show. First job was to get the spindle out. This was done with some heat and persistent knocking with a mallet. Hit it one way and then another and then back once again, Eventually, it began to move and after a liberal application of Plus-Gas, it eventually came out.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100730[/ATTACH]

 

A stiff wire brushing revealed that it was a much more complex component than expected with a flat, oil grooves a split pin hole and a line across the end to indicate the butterfly position.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100731[/ATTACH]

 

It was a nice turning exercise in mild steel.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100732[/ATTACH]

 

A new 3/16" BSW nut was turned up to complete the components.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100733[/ATTACH]

 

Another part ready to fit.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100734[/ATTACH]

 

Hi Steve I was surprised that you will not be fitting the butterfly back when you have gone to such lengths with everything else, what was the purpose of the butterfly & will it run ok without it ?

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You did all that work on the inlet and didn't put a butterfly in there ?

 

 

 

I don't think that you will even notice whether the butterfly is in there or not, assuming you leave it in the wide open position, as the actual rod will form more of a barrier. Performance-wise it would be like leaving out the choke butterfly from a normal carburettor - no noticeable change in performance but a certain loss of functionality.

 

You could consider it your cruise control ;)

 

trevor

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Hi Steve I was surprised that you will not be fitting the butterfly back when you have gone to such lengths with everything else, what was the purpose of the butterfly & will it run ok without it ?

 

Hi Ian.

 

This lorry, like so many others of the period, had a speed-limiting governor. With experienced drivers so rare at this time, there was a tendency to see how fast the vehicle would go by holding the foot down until something broke! Governors were fitted to prevent this and should limit the vehicle to about 14mph. Our engine was missing the governor so we made up a replacement (page 61 onwards). It works by bob-weights swinging out against springs and actuating a butterfly in the inlet manifold to throttle the mixture and limit the speed. From a driving point of view, I don't want that function. It's bad enough driving in modern traffic without sudden unexpected reductions in power output so we have put everything back just to make it look right. If some future owner, many years hence, wishes to have it, the butterfly can simply be fitted once again.

 

Cheers!

 

Steve

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Steve,

You could soak the wood former before using and coat it with grease, then once formed, allow wood to dry, and thus shrink slightly, this could be accelerated with a heat gun, which will also allow the brass to expand as well.

 

That is a good thought and should work well on a wooden former. I'll try it!

 

Steve

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don't like the split pin holding the king pin nut from turning, I see there is a small groove in the thread for it to sit against, was the original pin solid? maybe even spring steel? even with a solid pin I would use 222 loctite on the thread for peace of mind that it will not come of while on public roads.

 

Thanks Jake. I must admit that it desn't look a good solution. It is how they were made though so I must try it first. The worst that could happen is that the nut backs off and takes the load off the ball race making the steering very stiff so I should soon notice it! No doubt time will tell.

 

Very pleased to hear that you are enjoying this. It is the only reason for doing it after all!

 

Steve

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That is a good thought and should work well on a wooden former. I'll try it!

 

Steve

 

I think that you should soak the wood before you turn it, soaking the former will make it larger than required unless you know how much to allow for expansion of the former, although turning wet wood might be a problem.

 

If you use a "dry" former you could drill most of it out and then burn out what is left.

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