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WW1 Thornycroft restoration

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We plan to continue the Thorny story in exactly the same way - unless Forum members say that they have had enough!

 

!!!! Enough !!!! I think that most of us on the forum cant " GET ENOUGH" of what you do and achive

 

Dave C :wow::wow:

 

I couldnt agree more.

 

Mark

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Hi,

 

I was wondering whether you'd looked at Electrolytic Rust Removal. With all the parts you have to de-rust, clean and un-seize I think, it could be really useful to you.

http://schoepp.hylands.net/electrolyticrust.html

 

It is possible to de-rust machines bit at a time, lathe beds for example. Hear is a link to electrolytic de-rusting using a cotton pad soaked in the electrolyte instead of a bath, a very useful idea for freeing seized studs etc.

 

 

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_1999_retired_files/E-CLEAN.TXT

 

I enjoy the detail you go into, sometimes I have easier methods, but the most important thing for me is to participate in the pleasure of seeing these machines coming back to life!

 

Regards, Matt

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There can be one risk regarding Electrolytic Rust Removal, you might induce hydrogen embrittlement in high strengt steel. Which can lead to sudden failure. so it schould be avoided with the types of steel. I schould be safe to use on normal body parts etc.

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that article describes it well. with out going to too much detail, but its correct that you can drive the hydrogen out by heating it to around 200 C and it schould be done within two hours of inducing it.

Sorry for high jacking the thread. :blush:

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4x4Founder said:
The level of simple patience exhibited here, and in the Dennis thread, is awe inspiring. Not to mention the skills. You need the skills of a machinist, a foundryman and metal fabricator, as well as a mechanic... and I suppose acquiring those skills is the true joy in it. Seeing this in such detail is both encouraging and discouraging to a person who has long held a desire to do something like this. If I started now, I might just reach apprentice level at some of those skills before I died or old age made the work impossible. No matter what, these are truly remarkable journeys and I am grateful you make a place for us to ride along.

 

Thanks for that Jim. Steve, Tony and i are concious that we are getting older and with the last restoration takeing 10 years we dont know how many more are left in us. Bearing that in mind we are trying to get the youngsters trained up as much as we can:

 

 

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Hi,

 

I was wondering whether you'd looked at Electrolytic Rust Removal. With all the parts you have to de-rust, clean and un-seize I think, it could be really useful to you.

 

Regards, Matt

 

Hi Matt and Niels.

 

Many thanks for that one. No, we haven't tried it but it certainly looks worth pursuing. I wonder whether it might be used on the cylinder blocks as we can't get inside them at all? Very good for fragile parts I should think.

 

Incidentally, does anyone have experience of using molasses in water as a de-rusting agent? It has been suggested to us by one of our Aussie friends and he swears by it!

 

Finally, don't worry about hijacking the thread. The common factor is the lorry but any related side issues are always welcome. Anything to make the job easier is good!

 

Steve

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Tony has mainly been painting the final lot of Dennis bits, but in between, mainly whilst the Dennis paint was drying, he has machined up the new Impeller casting for the Thornycroft Water Pump. You may recall from a previous posting that we mentioned that the casting was given to us by Steve Pettifer some years ago. Quite by chance we ran into Steve at the Great Dorset, recently - we had not seen him for many years and were able to remind him about his gift, and able to tell him that it was going to be used!

 

The old cracked Impeller was eventually freed from its shaft - it was an extremely tight push fit and pinned - and it suffered more damage during its removal.

 

The casting was first of all chucked by the main diameter so that the inner "boss" and the flat surface could be machined. The casting could then be held squarely and safely by that boss when it was reversed in the chuck for the other side to be machined.

 

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The centre of the casting had to be bored out to be a push fit on a 3.4" diameter of the spindle - it was first of all drilled out to 5/8" and then finished with the boring tool to a couple of thous less than 3/4"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then it was the case of tidying up the casting whilst it was on the same setting and bringing it to final size.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The old and the new!

 

 

 

 

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Hi Matt and Niels.

 

Many thanks for that one. No, we haven't tried it but it certainly looks worth pursuing. I wonder whether it might be used on the cylinder blocks as we can't get inside them at all? Very good for fragile parts I should think.

 

You can use electrolytic de-rusting inside water jackets, I would imagine that you can fill the water jackets with electrolyte, the de rusting takes place in "line of sight", in other words, anything between the electrode and the surface to be de-rusted will prevent de-rusting. Multiple electrodes can be used, if you put the cylinder blocks in a tank, you could de-rust both the outside and the inside depending upon where you place the said electrodes.

 

Looking forward to hearing more about your progress, regards, Matt

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The Thorny J Charabanc converted from a Lorry some years ago and which normally lives at Sandy Bay, Exmouth - the World of Country Life - is making occasional appearances on the Downton Abbey TV programme on Sunday nights!

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Molasses in water really works, but you need the patience of Job, and pegs for delicate noses; alternatively place your tank down the road and around the corner and not too near a neighbour you like. As mentioned previously, electrolysis is most effective adjacent to the anodes. By contrast the molasses technique seems to slowly clear up rust in all sorts of difficult to get at places. The process may need warmth. Unsure of this due to the fact that we get 'sun' down here. Robert

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The process may need warmth. Unsure of this due to the fact that we get 'sun' down here. Robert

 

I am getting excellent results from using one part mollasses to 6 parts water in the restoration of my 1942 LRDG Chev truck. I leave an object in the tank for 2 weeks and its amazing how well it works. Its also a safe, non-toxic, cheap and environmentally friendly substance! Surprisingly, objects don't start rusting again after removing them from the tank and water-blasting off the gunk. After leaving them out in the sun to dry, the rust still has not reappeared even a month later. Regarding warmth: my outside tank worked well during our 3-month NZ winter through several frosts and a snowfall, with daytime temps averaging about 10 degrees C. I am completely sold on the idea.

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Well, it looks like we are going to need a big tank then. Tony had a look under the tarpaulin to remind himself of what we have waiting for us:

 

 

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The wet weather has driven Tony back to the workshop and he has picked up the bits of the Thorny Water Pump that he was working on a couple of weeks ago. The original shaft was damaged when the pump was taken apart and as it was of mild steel, it had badly rusted. We decided to make the replacement out of stainless steel to avoid the problem of rusting in the future.

 

The machining operations are all quite straightforward and the pictures tell the tale. The first end was reduced to take the Fan Driver - and then further reduced and screwed 1/2" Whit for the retaining nut. The aluminium shroud sits behind the Fan Driver and the bearing in that is of the same diameter as the Fan Driver - so sufficient room has been left for that. Likely to be some time hence for that to be fitted as a pattern has yet to be made for a new one to be cast.

 

 

 

 

 

The shaft was then reversed in the Chuck for the other end to be machined down to take the Impeller. The Drive Pulley is of the 7/8" diam as the shaft and just slides on the shaft to be eventually fitted with a key and then pinned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The threaded section with the Driver Plate behind it.

 

 

 

 

 

These two pictures show the other end of the shaft with the Impeller in position/

 

 

 

 

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These three pictures show the assembly with the Fan in place. Mike Jones found the fan for us at an Autojumble some years ago - the Thornycroft project started about 22 years ago but has been very much on the back burner as we were missing so many important parts and where we decided to do other lorries first of all as we had all the major parts to complete each of those. But hopefully, we now have enough of the Thorny to make a big dent in the project!

 

The fan fitted on the Driver Plate like a glove - I did not clean up the fan other than the bolting surface and the fit really was perfect! One blade is slightly damaged but I hope that it will not put the fan significantly out of balance - we do have another one which is a replica and is complete so we can use that one if there is a problem.

The Fan after a bit of a clean up!

Steve has a slotting cutter on his lathe and these Water Pump bits can go back with him to Leicester when he next comes down to Devon to be finished off.

 

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All the team were in Devon for the weekend and although we were mainly engaged in other jobs, some time was found to remove the Inlet Manifold from the Thorny Engine. The retaining nuts were very tight - we followed the usual procedure of heat and then Plus Gas when they had cooled off but is some cases the more brutal approach of hammer and chisel was required to loosen them.

 

The manifold was successfully removed - the exhaust one next.

We have had a bit of a "lay-off" from Lorry work but now getting our thoughts and intentions together to really get cracking on the "Thorny". Some significant developments very shortly!

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I'm really looking forward to seeing this restoration come together, if it's even half as good as the Dennis blog I'll be glued to the screen! Best of luck to you chaps, it seems you aren't hanging about as it is!

Regards,

Lewis

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Great stuff as usual Tim but 'fess up........who slipped with the hammer and clouted the pulley?:shocked::-)

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Just before we all parted last Sunday, we decided to have a go at taking out the Valve Caps - the spark plugs also screw into these. They were very heavily corroded and the sparking plugs have almost gone. The short time that we had was not sufficient to get them out and they are still there! So they must wait until next time! The Valve Caps are far beyond redemption and new ones will have to be made.

 

One of the Spark Plugs had a "body" of Mica - obviously very old - and when heat was applied to it, the mica began to delaminate into its natural form so that we ended up with a load of "washers" as the layers of mica popped off!

One of the things that we had not noticed prior to this weekend is that the original Oil Level Gauge for the engine is still there. It is a simple glass tube within a brass protective cylinder with a slot cut in the cylinder so that the oil level indicator can be seen through it. It had been loosely covered by two bits of steel tube to protect it - and when we took these off, the indicator was seen! A nice bonus to see that it was still there!

 

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It's interesting to have such a wonderful backdrops to the images of the work you are undertaking:

 

'BETHLELEM STEEL CO' or some parts from another project etc.

 

Tom

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I think that is a symptom of not having enough space!

 

We can only get to one side of the engine. Fortunately, Father had the bright idea of putting it onto a wheeled trolley so that we can get it out and turn it around before putting it back inside. A lot of our work is carried out outside using a trailer as a bench!

 

Other people's sheds are always fascinating!

 

Steve :-)

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the more brutal approach of hammer and chisel was required to loosen them.

 

 

 

It may seem surprising, but splitting nuts with a hammer and chisel is in my view an elegant solution, the studs are undamaged and you get the job done! I learnt this method years ago and have never regretted it!

 

Looking forward to following this thread!

 

Regards, Matthew

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