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Great War truck

WW1 Thornycroft restoration

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2 hours ago, Old Bill said:

We have had a nice day again and have fitted all of the rope hooks. Definitely a two-man job to avoid climbing in and out of the back all the time.DSCN6431.JPG.47d7f13a5fa9bc5d37f12b54be06e52e.JPG

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Another job ticked off! I also took the opportunity to crawl underneath and have a look at the sump.

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Once I had wiped the oil away, it became obvious that some sort of filler had been used to fill some porosity in the casting. It looks like soft solder.

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The oil is leaking and steadily dripping from the joint line between the two metals. The question now is what to do about it.

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I am wondering if I could cut some of it out with the Dremel and fill the resulting groove with Plastic Padding or even a silicone gasket material. Any suggestions please chaps?

Steve   :)

Drill it out and have someone with an argon set come round and run a fillet of weld in there... 

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I'd treat this like a leaky fuel tank.

Remove the sump, clean the inside and use Por15 to seal the entire sump.

I had a leak in the diff housing on a modern and painted the outside of the housing with Por15 black paint, not chassis paint.

Hasn't leaked in 5 years of being beaten on.

Whilst it would have been great if you made your intended deadlines at least now the truck may well be finished to look at, rather than not quite there.

I congratulate all of you on an impressive effort and I've certainly enjoyed your journey.

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My MUTT had POR15 added in the fuel tank when restored some 12-13 years ago, and it's still lovely and clean and leak free. A good product (I have no link to the manufacturer nor am I affiliated with any distributors of said product). I've since used it in a Ferret fuel tank and would not hesitate to use it again. 

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I don't like the look of the existing sump repair at all.

It would have to come off to allow the inside to be inspected, not least because the strength of the material round the drain plug may be compromised.  

Best solution would be to grind out the lump and re-weld, followed by a coat or two of tank sealer internally.

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Re the sump leak - best not to pick at scabs.  I would be thinking old school caulking technique, that is close the soft metal into the crack with a ball pein hammer or even a blunt chisel. At a later date when the sump is off put some sealant on the inside.

And on the fuel tank I would be thinking about having another go at the POR 15 treatment.

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18 hours ago, Old Bill said:

We have had a nice day again and have fitted all of the rope hooks. Definitely a two-man job to avoid climbing in and out of the back all the time.

 

 

 

Another job ticked off! I also took the opportunity to crawl underneath and have a look at the sump.

 

Once I had wiped the oil away, it became obvious that some sort of filler had been used to fill some porosity in the casting. It looks like soft solder.

 

The oil is leaking and steadily dripping from the joint line between the two metals. The question now is what to do about it.

DSCN6429.thumb.JPG.69cbfe66cf36234e0138ec119d415c78.JPG

I am wondering if I could cut some of it out with the Dremel and fill the resulting groove with Plastic Padding or even a silicone gasket material. Any suggestions please chaps?

Steve   :)

I'd use alumnium filled epoxy putty. Devcon "F" 10611 is perfect but expensive

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/materials-and-maintenance/engineering-coating-and-repair-products/500gm-inchfinch-aluminium-putty/p/DEV7112030X

There are cheaper ones out there.

 

Robert G8RPI

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20 hours ago, flandersflyer said:

I'd weld that bracket Steve as if it drops off that vintage horn will be under the wheels... 

Ah, but you know how much I love my silver solder! Seriously though,  a good silver-soldered joint is as strong as a modest grade of steel so I am quite confident that this will survive.

No doubt time will tell!

Cheers!

Steve   :)

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Many thanks for all of your comments chaps. My experience of welding old aluminium has been of 100% failure. There is something in it which just won't weld no matter what kit you have so I feel more inclined towards the filler route at the moment. However, we had a brainstorm this afternoon and had a look in the spares collection and came up with this.

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It is an earlier pattern sump which doesn't have the holes drilled for the oil pump but the boss for it is there. Dad is going to clean it up and see if it looks promising. Fitting a good one might be the easiest way out of all! To use it, we will have to remove the old sump anyway so that will be an opportunity to have a good look at it.

Steve  :)

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16 hours ago, Old Bill said:

Many thanks for all of your comments chaps. My experience of welding old aluminium has been of 100% failure.

I think it is worth pointing out that this isn't just Steve's widely publicised lack of welding skills. A number of professional welders have had a go with WW1-era Dennis crank-cases and sumps and have never been successful. 

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Even welding new aluminium in workshop conditions is not for the faint hearted.

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Posted (edited)

A friend did a glass pearl blast of his aluminium sump. It seems to "hammer"' all pores close?? Didn't look nice, looked like rough sandblasted surface but it'was smooth to the toutch??

Edited by Citroman

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17 hours ago, Old Bill said:

However, we had a brainstorm this afternoon and had a look in the spares collection and came up with this.

It is an earlier pattern sump which doesn't have the holes drilled for the oil pump but the boss for it is there. Dad is going to clean it up and see if it looks promising. Fitting a good one might be the easiest way out of all! To use it, we will have to remove the old sump anyway so that will be an opportunity to have a good look at it.

Steve  :)

You are probably the only people in the world who can 'nip into the back' and pull just about the right 100+ year old part off the store shelves - outstanding!

I've had trouble in several motor factors getting parts for our hatchback 🤣

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I had to drive 15 kilometers to find a battery for a recent fiat panda.....🤨

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Posted (edited)

You might not have been there with the Thornycroft, but you were there.  This is a Facebook grab photographed by Catrina Moore and Sharon Dobson.

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Edited by lynx42 Rick Cove
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On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:10 AM, Chris Hall said:

👍

It was a great day and a lot of fun. We had planned and hoped to take the Thorny but that did not work out because of the further teething problems. Second choice would have been the Dennis but that is now living at Steve's place in Leicestershire - so the dear old faithful Autocar saved the day! It has not been out for a couple of years but started very easily and we were away! I guess the only disadvantage with it was that there is no proper weather protection so we had to cope with the few showers that came along.

Reception from the public along the way was tremendous and the crowds in Blandford were amazing. Two onlookers said to me that it brought tears to their eyes - the whole scene was truly wonderfully set with the foot soldiers marching ahead of the convoy in the towns and villages - and on occasion singing the First World War songs that are so well known.

I am afraid that other traffic on occasions came to a halt - but that really was only because the traffic coming towards us stopped to watch us pass by and thus held up the following traffic. Hundreds of photos taken.

Probably never to be repeated but an occasion for us to remember for a long time.

Tony

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shamelessly stolen from another thread...

 

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It was a fantastic day out. Quite amazing. Hundreds of photos are turning up on the internet. I quite liked this one which I have borrowed from elsewhere. 

You may notice I have been promoted to Lance Corporal, Steve to a WO1 but Dad remains a private!

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On 9 August 2018 at 9:38 AM, Old Bill said:

. We will have to pull the tank off and unsolder the end plate outer skin to have a look. More excitement with a propane torch on a petrol tank!

 

Please, please tell me you are going to fill it with water first!

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Not ever having done this, how long do you leave the water in for before you think it is safe to attack the tank? A day, two days? No matter how hard you try to clean parts in the fuel supply chain they always seem to smell of petrol. How does smell equate to petrol vapour? Can you purge a tank with Argon and then go for it straight away? How about using a 'wet and dry' vacuum cleaner to suck the vapour out (with the petrol tap open) or will the cleaner go bang instead?

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Posted (edited)

a vacuum cleaner would most certainly explode if it relies on a brushed electric motor. 

We vented aircraft fuel tanks with compressed air powered venturi . The tank was opened at either end and at one a pipe a couple of foot long with venturi at the bottom was placed over the opening. This ensured a good airflow through the tank.

it was at least 24 hours after all puddles of fuel were gone from the tank before work  could be carried out. Later an explosi meter was used to show safe atmosphere.

 

Edited by lowfat

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1 hour ago, Asciidv said:

Not ever having done this, how long do you leave the water in for before you think it is safe to attack the tank?

I think that the idea is that a tank full of water is verifiably not full of petrol vapour. 

You can then arrange the tank to allow you to work in a bubble. 

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I watched an episode of car SOS and they got a pro to repair the tank (may have been the Volvo). I think he used a steam cleaner to purge the tank.

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That convoy is amazing. I'd love to see something like that over here.

Well done on attending with the Autocar and good luck on the Thorny.

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What a convoy Steam power and Fire Engines. Was your promotion because your welding is improving?

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