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Stalwart braking system & other bits

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Lee & I made a start on the dodgy braking system on the Stalwart today. Suprise, suprise - the offending circuit that was locking on - didn't!!

 

We disconnected each wheels flexi-hose in turn and connected a 0 to 3000 psi pressure gauge up, According to the manual (EMER) with the foot pressed hard to the floor we should have seen readings around the 2160 psi mark. We didn't!!!

From memory Lee recorded the following

 

Rears - 1200 psi n/s pressure releases slowly

 

Centres - 1500 psi

 

Front 1100 psi o/s side, 1000 psi the n/s side.

 

All but one of the flexi-hose unions had never been removed in years and the front two had to have the leading pair of shock absorbers released from the top mount. Both front flexi-hoses were rotten and tore apart during removal and the rigid pipe on the front O/S calliper burst during testing - a lucky escape there!!!

 

Frontshockabsorbersoff.jpgGetingtheunionoff.jpg

 

Leeundoingbrakeflexi-hose.jpgOnewayofshiftingpaintedsolidC-rings.png

 

 

Right now the plan is to replace all six flexi-hoses, both rigid lines on the front wheels, all the calliper seals and the master cylinders (got to do the whole cylinder as seals kits aren't available. May need to get the brake discs skimmed as well - will know better once the road wheels are off.

 

Also to remove and check both air-packs and the sensing tank as it's venting compressed air a LOT faster than he book says - could be a crudded up auto-drain down valve on the sensing tank??

 

Then to flush the entire system through with fresh fluid - what came out today was discoloured, stank, and varied in viscosity at all 6 wheel stations!!!

 

Say tuned for further updates when we have the parts in from Banisters

 

Oh - and to add the icing to the cake - the oil pressure has started doing weird things. Starting from cold it's constant at around 25 - 28 psi but as she warms up the idle pressure drops down to 10 psi -ish that slowly raises to about 15 psi as engine revs increase. Oil filter wash or change and change of engine oil seem to be the next jobs after the brakes......

Edited by ArtistsRifles
info added

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and the rigid pipe on the front O/S calliper burst during testing - a lucky escape there!!!

 

 

 

A lucky escape for you, you didn't cop a face full of hydraulic fluid:sweat:

 

Whose idea was it to put the front brake unions behind the shock absorders:argh:

 

I think the uneven readings were down to the amount of air in the system...

Edited by Marmite!!

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A lucky escape for you, you didn't cop a face full of hydraulic fluid:sweat:

 

True - on the other hand you missed out on the jet of water & oil from the main wiper motor that shot out when I tried it out whilst waiting for the air to reach max!! :rofl: :rofl:

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Went for a run with Lee down to see Richard Banister today to pick up the flexi-hoses, brake pads, calliper and boot seals. Now a lot lighter in the pocket!! :)

 

For those interested Richard has found a good source for remanufacturing things like seals, gaiters, bump stops etc. I saw some of the new parts and it really is quality work.

 

Took the Bentley out for the run to give it a work-out as it sits on the drive all week doing nothing and had a great time!!

 

So all in all an excellent day. :):) We start work again on Monday (I need the weekend free to do the weeks work for the on-line MSc I'm undertaking) and will be removing wheels and callipers and checking the condition of the disks.

Edited by ArtistsRifles

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Neil, looks like you got the right man for the job at last.

 

Yep... someone that can hang upside down in tight spaces:sweat::-D

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Neil, looks like you got the right man for the job at last.

 

Absolutely - and I know what is going on at every step......

 

Yep... someone that can hang upside down in tight spaces:sweat::-D

 

Heh!! - you haven't seen where the brake master cylinders are yet have you??? :rofl: :rofl:

 

 

twizzle!!!!

 

Yep - and if you ask nicely you can borrow him when he's finished the brakes next week to do your fan belts or the Saracen!! :rofl: :rofl:

Edited by Marmite!!

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At least you now know that it is all being done properly, and you are informed the whole way through the job.

 

Yep - not only 'cos it's Lee doing it -but also 'cos I'm there with him!!! For once being out of work has been an asset!! :):)

Edited by ArtistsRifles
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Yep - not only 'cos it's Lee doing it -but also 'cos I'm there with him!!! For once being out of work has been an asset!! :):)

 

Got to have someone to take the wheels off :-D

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don't drop them on your feet mate!!!!lol

 

Last time I agreed to pick some RL wheels/tyres up for Ian2b I slipped getting them out of the van, squashing me between the bulkhead & wheel... 2 broken ribs...:argh::sweat:then there was the time I picked up your Saracen petrol tank from Bannisters... 2 broken ribs again.. same two:argh::argh: maybe I should stay at home:-D

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Set about getting the front & middle calipers off today... we had a bit of a result in that we didn't have to remove the wheels completely to remove the calipers, just slid them up the hubs & there was just enough room. Compared to the calipers on my Fox (basically the same) they came off fairly easily:sweat:

 

DSC_0009.jpg

 

DSC_0012.jpg

 

DSC_0014.jpg

 

What sort of mechanic would of allowed a vehicle on the road with pipework corroded as bad as these, wasn't as if they were hard to see...

Infact one of them failed when we were testing them last week:argh: the rubber hose are in just as bad condition too...

 

DSC_0008.jpg

 

Back in the workshop to start overhauling them...

 

DSC_0015.jpg

 

DSC_0017.jpg

 

You can clearly see the burnt dust boots where the brakes locked on & overheated.

 

DSC_0018.jpg

 

Pistons removed.... the blob in the middle of the left hand bore is a bit of paper... can't work out how that got in there:confused: doesn't show clearly but a section of all the seals are feathering...

 

DSC_0022.jpg

 

All sorts of nasty stuff in the mineral oil... not suprising there are problems with the brakes..

 

DSC_0024.jpg

DSC_0025.jpg

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DSC_0027.jpg

DSC_0028.jpg

 

All stripped down ready for a splash in the degreaser & then to fit the new rubbers....

 

DSC_0031.jpg

 

One down, 5 to go:sweat:

Edited by Marmite!!

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I'm surprised the bores of the calipers are in such good condition given the state of the fluid. Looks like they were caught just in time.

 

Looks like you'll have to go through all the oother brake components to properly clean and inspect them.

 

As for the state of the brake pipes, well just because you CAN claim MOT exemption doesn't necessarliy mean it's a good idea not to get one done!

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I'm surprised the bores of the calipers are in such good condition given the state of the fluid. Looks like they were caught just in time.

 

Looks like you'll have to go through all the oother brake components to properly clean and inspect them.

 

As for the state of the brake pipes, well just because you CAN claim MOT exemption doesn't necessarliy mean it's a good idea not to get one done!

 

Everything that can be stripped down is going to be... master cylinders are being replaced as new rubbers are not available... all new hose are being fitted too... we've got plenty of mineral oil to flush the system through properly before fitting the rebuilt calipers...

 

As for the brake pipes, Neil paid a great deal of money to have his Stalwart sorted by a dealer/restorer, the brakes were supposed to of been sorted, infact they were never touched... Neil took it in good faith that the work he contracted them to do was carried out...

Edited by Marmite!!

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As for the brake pipes, Neil paid a great deal of money to have his Stalwart sorted by a dealer/restorer, the brakes were supposed to of been sorted, infact they were never touched...

 

Lee,

 

I don't doubt you're doing a very thorough job, but the brake issues didn't occur overnight. It was only the locking up which led Neil to wasting his money with previous `mechanics'. If that fault hadn't occured another more serious one may have done with even worse consequences. Some of the brake issues particularly pipe corrosion could have been picked up a long time ago with an MOT inspection, even if a roller test was out of the question.

 

I'm very aware and I'm sure many others are that Neil's vehicle was in a much publicised accident not too long back. I'm not fully aware of the circumstances, but having seen the state of the brake pipes he's lucky he wasn't prosecuted for running an unroad worthy vehicle whether the accident was his fault or not.

 

It may not be in Neils' best interests to publish any more details of faults with his vehicle.

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Lee,

 

I don't doubt you're doing a very thorough job, but the brake issues didn't occur overnight. It was only the locking up which led Neil to wasting his money with previous `mechanics'. If that fault hadn't occured another more serious one may have done with even worse consequences. Some of the brake issues particularly pipe corrosion could have been picked up a long time ago with an MOT inspection, even if a roller test was out of the question.

 

I'm very aware and I'm sure many others are that Neil's vehicle was in a much publicised accident not too long back. I'm not fully aware of the circumstances, but having seen the state of the brake pipes he's lucky he wasn't prosecuted for running an unroad worthy vehicle whether the accident was his fault or not.

 

It may not be in Neils' best interests to publish any more details of faults with his vehicle.

 

That's the point this is not the original running gear & it is supposed to be in perfect condition now... the brakes were not in this condition before the accident I can vouch for that as can others on the forum who had worked on the vehicle before the accident... PM Neil & I'm sure he will explain fully...

 

As said (IMO) the repairers had a duty of care, at the very least if they didn't want to carry out the contracted work they should of issued a warning about the condition of the brakes in writing....

 

If you want further info on this then PM Neil... the rest of the Blog is about overhauling a Stalwart Braking System.

Edited by Marmite!!

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PM Sent.

 

Back on topic. We were lucky today in that things came apart a LOT easier than they did for Lee when he did his Fox (a lot of the components are common). We also had a go at getting the old masters out - unfortunately I'd left the EMERs at home by mistake so we had to abort that one as neither of us could see how they came out. To be honest the EMERS aren't that clear either but.....

 

I'm off to Abbey Hoses in Grays tomorrow to get a pair of new rigid hoses made up for the front callipers. We are rebuilding the 4 front and centre callipers now, got to leave the rears until Richard Banister gets the other 6 seals in - but a good flush through should remove any issues with them.

 

Looks like the callipers are coming apart a lot easier than yours did Lee!!!

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Looks like the callipers are coming apart a lot easier than yours did Lee!!!

 

Sort of:sweat:

 

If you get time can you drop the new seals off to me in the morning.. forgot to take them off you today...

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Depends what time the gas fitter gets here for the safety examination. May not be till after lunch time as I'm the only one here right now during the day. Will give you a ring when I'm leaving. :)

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A big learning curve , you will be an expert on the Stalwart brake system by the time your finished .

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Yeah - but a learning curve I could have done without after forking out £9,500 for the old girl to be rebuilt!!!!! :cry: :cry:

 

Still - they say no experience that you can walk away from is ever wasted!! :)

 

Maybe Lee & I can hire out to the so-called "professionals" as braking experts after this is done :rofl: :rofl:

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Agreed on all your points . The final one was what I was aiming for in my earlier post about a learning curve.

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