mwarrior Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Ok so my radiator is back on the vehicle and ready to go. Filled it up, and fired the engine up.... Kept the covers up/off to make sure theres nothing leaking, and sure enough... no coolant... BUT... Oil started spraying out of the engine oil filler cap. Shut it down, checked the dipstick, its all of a sudden HIGHER than the shaded area (wasnt like that before). It also smells a little like varsol. Now that said, the last few starts before I pulled the radiator it was also blowing out some greyish smoke. I've just bought 16L of SAE 30 non-detergent oil (14 for the engine plus 2 just in case its needed later), but hesitent to put it in just yet in case the same thing is about to happen. Anybody have any suggestions on what a cause could be? It was fine until a couple of months ago. The only things that have changed are: 1) Radiator was removed and flushed 2) Engine was flushed with CLR and water 3) Fuel filter was cleaned/replaced 4) Switch before the fuel filter was moved from "Reserve" to "Main" (I think it was on Reserve, according to the manual anyways... so moved it to Main and added more fuel to the tank) The only other issue I'm having is that it is not idling either, even with the choke on OR with turning the knob beside the steering wheel (forget the name at the moment). Not sure if the two are related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I don't know what Varsol is, but if the oil level has gone up, and the oil is now thin and smells like Petrol, it sounds like your fuel pump has failed and is letting fuel into the oil system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I don't know what Varsol is, but if the oil level has gone up, and the oil is now thin and smells like Petrol, it sounds like your fuel pump has failed and is letting fuel into the oil system. I dunno what Varsol is either........do you put it on your hair?............er..... is it for treating hemmae.........hemer........ oh bu**er I can't spell it....you know ........piles or sumfink. Nuff of the stupidity, and just another idea......... are the brakes vacuum assisted, and if so does it draw its vacuum from the manifold, assuming it's a petrol engine; or does it have a vacuum pump? The reason I ask is because I had an Iveco van that blew oil out of the breather really badly, and that turned out to be a split in the vacuum pipe allowing an excessive amount of air to be discharged into the crankcase from the pump. Another idea if it has a vacuum pump............ could the brake servo be leaking brake fluid into the vacuum line and depositing it in the engine oil. You could easily tell if the brake fluid regularly needs topping up. That could also make yer oil smell wierd. Like Varsol????????? praps. :-D Jus tryin ta be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwarrior Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Well Varsol = paint thinner = stale fuel maybe? sirhc: If the fuel pump failed, wouldnt that also stop any fuel from going to the engine, therefore making it not start? Unless theres something I missed there? When I start it, it does smell like its running rich, in addition to the accumulation of gasoline inside the oil. Somebody suggested adjusting the carb as that may be flooded and/or allowing fuel into the engine. I'm not sure either way why its doing it, hence why I am here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Im going for the buggered diaphragm on the fuel pump, if the oil starts smelling like petrol, dont start it because the crankcase fumes will go bang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Well Varsol = paint thinner = stale fuel maybe? sirhc: If the fuel pump failed, wouldnt that also stop any fuel from going to the engine, therefore making it not start? Unless theres something I missed there? When I start it, it does smell like its running rich, in addition to the accumulation of gasoline inside the oil. Somebody suggested adjusting the carb as that may be flooded and/or allowing fuel into the engine. I'm not sure either way why its doing it, hence why I am here If it's a mechanical fuel pump; it can leak petrol into the sump, but still pump fuel ok. They usually leak only one way. Is the fuel tank Higher than the pump itself. If so it could be leaking all the time into the sump. Carburettor flooding could cause oil to get into the crankcase when the engine is turned off as it can drip into the manifold, leaking past valves and pistons. A leaking or poorly seated float valve could be the cause of the running rich problem. The amount coming from the carburettor wouldn't be enough to increase the oil level substantially though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwarrior Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Adam: Good point about not starting it. I changed the oil and started just to make sure that it was fuel and not the old oil deteriorating (it was at least a year old that I knew of). As for the fuel pump, this is probably a very stupid question but how exactly do I even get to it? I got to the hand primer by removing the plate beside the brake pedal (primed it up to pressurize after removing/replacing the fuel filter and also adding new fuel), but from what I can tell it is extremely difficult to get to. Also, as I said in my post above, if it is the fuel pump, wouldnt that stop it from starting? I thought it goes Tank > Fuel Tap > Fuel Filter > Fuel Pump > Carburetter > Engine. If thats the case, then how is it a diaphragm would cause fuel inside the oil? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwarrior Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Just a thought, another thing done between the fuel going into the oil and not going into the oil that I did... I put mid-high octane fuel in the tank rather than the regular unleaded+lead substitute. Could this possibly be causing unburnt fuel to enter the oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Cant see it being petrol type, and the carburettor flooding would have to be massive to be getting past the piston rings enough to raise the oil level. Probably a split in the diaphragm, still providing enough fuel to the carb to keep the engine running, but also pumping it into the engine crankcase. Just been playing with a rough running ferret today, would run fine for a short while then cut out, the pipe from the filter, through the pump and up to the carb had a reasonable quantity of grit/sand in it, which we blew out with a compressor,and that has similar access problems as the Saracen, and my Pig has the same pump, but at least i can get to that with after removing a few bits and pieces! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiketheBike Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I would agree with Chris, Fuel pump. Had similar problem on Ferret, and it was a split diaphram. Started, ran etc, but was pumping fuel into the oil...and as its the same engine family/fuel pump........ I can tell you how to change it in a ferret, but it will be very different for a Saracen Once you do get it out, Marcus Glenn or Banisters do repair kits, or NOS pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwarrior Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 ok time for another update. I decided to check the carb last night... And apparently the choke gets stuck on maximum. Manually opened it, let engine turn on, and closed choke, and it even idles fine now. When the choke is wide open, you can hear the fuel spraying in, could that possible have been the culprit maybe? I hope so... Will check today, anybody else think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Saracen Fuel Pump! yep they ARE a bit of a sod to get at, - offside air filter has to come off, ideally, as this will give you more light on the subject. As for removing it, you'll need a shorter spanner than normal, 1/2 " AF, if I recall, which after loosening, you'll get about a flat at a time turning, both nuts all the way off the studs before pump will come away, WORD OF WARNING!!!!!- the pump push rod may fall out into the depths of the engine compartment!, so be ready with your third hand to catch it!. Marcus Glenn, and Champ Spares sell new old stock pump reair kits at about £45, well worth the money, but a fairly head scratching-ly fiddly job! I had the same symptoms as you described, did my pump, and it improved things no end, my old beast has since been clocked at 55mph! If you have any problems, feel free to get in touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 replace the thing with an electric pump...those mechanical fuel pumps are the bane of my life...I have three in my zils, all have failed, i have one on my coles crane, failed twice, they drive me nuts...i am in the process of replacing them with electric fuel pumps and getting rid of the mechanical things...and if one fails its a 2 minute job to replace it...and they are not expensive either...just make sure you get one with the right flow rate...and that it is for a carburetor or for fuel injection...but fuel in your oil can be the carb leaking but is more commonly the fuel pump leaking...if the carb on the saracen is anyrthing like the one on my stalwart the biggest problem is the fuel jets...each time you press the throttle they give a little squirt of fuel...if you keep pressing the throttle you can flood the thing easily...especially if she wont start...two squirts on my throttle and my stolly fires immediately...even on those awful 13y plugs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't know much about Saracens but in 1975/6 I was maintaining B61 & 81 engines used in RAF ground Support equipment. Oil dilution was a major problem especially with the B61. On the GPU with the B61 the tank was in line with the rocker on the B81 most of the tank was in line with the block. sumps filling with fuel was an every week problem. The solution was to fit an "Oil dilution valve" a stupid name it should have been called an Anti- Oil Dilution valve. It was simply a soleniod operated fuel cut off spliced into the line just after the tank. It solved that problem. But the storey doesn't end there we then had spates of soleniod failure whilst the engine was running it failed in the closed position not something the boys servicing and starting the old Mk1 Victors were too happy about !! then came the multigrade oil which nearly grounded the Mk1 Victor tanker fleet as we saw engines self destructing within days of the new type oil being put in and within 2 weeks we had exhausted the supply system of engines. We reached the point we were modifying B81 engines configured for the MK6 fire truck and fitted them. In short without GPUs ( Ground power units ) then it was a major problem to carry out flight line maint on the aircraft. The strange smell reminds me of the time I had to do an major overhaul on a Pundit officially know as a Land mark beacon it ran from a mains supply but had its own coventry victor generator. It had been ignored for years and I decided to drain the fuel I nearly threw up we borrowed a glass fuel sampler from the POL boys after 10 minutes of standing it was like a tube of fruit pastilles . How old is your fuel I am finding unleaded starts to go down hill fairly quickly and is worth with valvemaster etc added . Good Luck TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 why were they self destructing...more detail please this is very interesting...was the thicker oil getting glogged up not getting to the parts needed etc etc...I was just thinking of chanign the oil to 20/50 in my stlwart...you have just made me re think that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It was when the MoD changed from a series of single grade oils (dependant on ambient operating temp) to a multi grade, roughly 1974-76 period. The oil was breaking down and consequently the big end bearings were failing, often putting a con rod through the block. There was also evidence of oil starvation due to the detergents in the multi-grade releasing all manner of accumilations in to the oil ways. On receipt of refurbed engines they were lasting a little longer but the problem never went away. I never heard if a final solution had been found as events overtook the problem; The Mk1 Victor was being phased out and replaced by the MK2 which used a different voltage; and hence a AEC powered ground power unit was supplied with it so our B series GPUs went out of service. Our fire trucks which used B 61 and 81 didn't suffer as badly. The factor being the electrical load and rpm our GPUs were running at was equivalent to running flat out at maximuin gross weight for up to 8 hours at a time. Its possible Richard F could offer more advice. TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 okay am convinced, will stick with sae 30 and sod the cost differential....my stolly runs really sweet most of the time, so dont want to screw it up... I have bought myself another b81 and am going to strip and overhaul it...for a bit of fun to see if I can tune it a tad, increase the compression a tad..improve the air flow and other such things...we will see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ingram Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Sarrecen won't start after not running for time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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