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Jack

D-Day snub to Queen

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Just as well something cheered them up.i love the way they called it the town square,its a ruddy car park.i felt sorry for them standing in the rain allmost no seats.its about time a proper area was prepared with basic facilities.The polos talked the talk about how gratefull they all were etc,etc but they were still standing in the rain.Best bit was when Gordon got booed before his speach.hope he knows where his p45 is.gonna need it.These brave lads deserved better ,i felt uncomfortable watching that particular service,i didnt feel in my heart it was sincere.Just my opinion.CW.

 

It was p*ss poor, most of the veterans were soaked through although credit to them, they just stood there and took it, after General Dannetts well considered speech, crash gordon just seemed massively out of place.

A shame to our government that for the last official turnout of the Normandy Veterans Association, something a bit more special wasnt put on for them.

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Monday's C4 documentary about Churchill's dilema on whether to destroy the French fleet after France had been overyun by Germany was fascinating, if not the best timing! Not something I was aware of till now. It must have been a big shock to the French population.

 

The decision seemed to hinge around on how reliable was the French Government's 'undertaking not to permit Germany to take over their fleet and use the ships to help them invade Britain'. Hmmm.

 

Whatever, the day belongs to the VETERANS :tup:: , not the politicians.

 

I have been too sidetracked to enter this debate until now. So I'll jump in here with some points.

 

First the attack on the French fleet at Mers-el-Kabir (Oran). A tragedy. I recommend The Deadly Stroke by Warren Tute published in 1973. A very good read. The author tells us in his final chapter...

 

"For me it is certainly true that all civilised men have two countries and one of them is France". I don't really want to take him out of context, but this is true for me. I love France and like the French. I admire so much about the country and understand some of the national pain suffered down the years from the two world wars and their bloody retreat from empire. I think the French have dealt a little better with the end of empire than us. They know who they are. They do things to suit themselves. BUT... I also love France because so much of my country and our Commonwealth remains in it. Whatever the personal circumstances of the men, our army that remains are there because of a huge act of faith they gave in two world wars. France can never be allowed to forget this and I don't believe she ever will because it is blindingly obvious that whatever feelings our two countries bandy about at odd times, the bond created by this sacrifice is unbreakable.

 

The failure to invite the head of state, regardless of any personal feelings you have towards the monarchy; was a slur. But we have to learn how much of this was a cock up between Whitehall and the Quai D'Orsay. I suspect it was incompetence rather than a deliberate slight. But it was totally unsatisfactory. A sign of the times...

 

Any commemoration, first and foremost, should be for the dead and the veterans; not the politicians or the princes. I think that the rainy bash at Arromanches showed our peculiar British way of doing things. Unfussy - it could have been Priory Park in Southend...but it was Arromanches. The location was totally apt, a heritage site for all of us. But the veterans... they were essential. They always will be.

 

MB

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More tomorrow but you do realise that Gordon Brown said - "Obama beach" instead of "Omaha beach" during his speech.....................

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Thought both Gen Dannetts and French Guy's (prime minister ??) speeches were spot on,.....as for 'our Gordon's........well, :argh:

 

 

 

It was p*ss poor, most of the veterans were soaked through although credit to them, they just stood there and took it, after General Dannetts well considered speech, crash gordon just seemed massively out of place.

A shame to our government that for the last official turnout of the Normandy Veterans Association, something a bit more special wasnt put on for them.

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Yes - it got reported over here. The visit was not a resounding success for Broon - more like another nail in the coffin...

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well i have just got back from the tour and being with the vetrans made my weekend

the vetrans at aramache were getting fed up with waiting and after singing why are we waiting they then decided on their own back to march througth the gendarm straight onto the parade square and then got soaked waitng for the dignitries

in the morning at bayoux it was completly diffrent

the police had sort of worked out coach parking and when charles turned up a great chear went up and he went round and shook most of the vetrans hands

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I was there , and was amazed about the Gendarmerie , they were brought in from all over France and didn`t have a clue what they were doing , only thing the could say was :you are not allowed any further . Vets and visitors were stuck behind the fences , and they wouldn`allow anybody through. same on the roads they were sending people into all directions because they never in their life had been in Normandy.

 

Sounds just like 2004, we had French MOD passes and official invitations to the Canadian event at Courseulles but the Gendarmes would not even let us out of the campsite.

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I don't post much anymore, but this whole sorry saga really extracts it.

Brown is just a socialist and a derrier licker nuff said.

What always gets me with these bun fights is the Vets are stood rain or shine for the 'dignateries' to arrive who then plonk their fat overfed asses on some plush bit of velvet while men twice their age stand in rank, as they always have done taking the crap from these muppets.

About time these grey little politicio's waited, bowed and perhaps handed the drinks to the real Dignateries who gave life, limb, sanity, and freedom for these grey men to play politics and power.

 

 

Hardyferret

 

'come dear revolution, as your taste is so bitterly sweet'

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Could not agree more. The sellerbrasions where for those who fought , not the so cauld VIP's .

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What always gets me with these bun fights is the Vets are stood rain or shine for the 'dignateries' to arrive who then plonk their fat overfed asses on some plush bit of velvet while men twice their age stand in rank, as they always have done taking the crap from these muppets.

 

 

:rofl:I just inhaled my cup of tea and spat most of it onto my laptop!!:rofl:

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)

i think its time for us to admit that its probably for the best that its the last one.

I wouldnt like to see the vets suffer that absolute shambles again.

Also at the risk of being contraversial maybe its best all round as there are so many people left out of these events.The french resistance.The thousands of civilians we killed bombing the enemy.I wonder if we would welcome this in England every 5yrs and every year as far as vehicle groups are concerned.It simple terms its like here we are again just to remind you how lucky you are we liberated you again.The young people i am sure must wander what all the fuss is about.The first world war the one to end all wars is not remebered to the same degree because of the time thats past,

Maybe its time to let go a little and let time do the same to ww2,let the French get on with there lives without this constant reminder.We must not forget allthough its our interest thro the vehicles War is evil and attrocities are commited by all sides

We need to concentrate on the erradicating of the causes,such as Poverty,injustice,

Greed,ignorance.Thats where the fight lies.

I wish i could believe the young men that are being killed in our modern day conflicts

are fighting for the same reasons as the Vets,but i see only oil,oppertunism,and greed.And of course a great way for the new weaopns to be put to the test.

I am more terrified of the enemy within.Just my opinion,i dont think theres anything offensive in what i have said,i am sure you will let me know.CW

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i think its time for us to admit that its probably for the best that its the last one.

I wouldnt like to see the vets suffer that absolute shambles again.

Also at the risk of being contraversial maybe its best all round as there are so many people left out of these events.The french resistance.The thousands of civilians we killed bombing the enemy.I wonder if we would welcome this in England every 5yrs and every year as far as vehicle groups are concerned.It simple terms its like here we are again just to remind you how lucky you are we liberated you again.The young people i am sure must wander what all the fuss is about.The first world war the one to end all wars is not remebered to the same degree because of the time thats past,

Maybe its time to let go a little and let time do the same to ww2,let the French get on with there lives without this constant reminder.We must not forget allthough its our interest thro the vehicles War is evil and attrocities are commited by all sides

We need to concentrate on the erradicating of the causes,such as Poverty,injustice,

Greed,ignorance.Thats where the fight lies.

I wish i could believe the young men that are being killed in our modern day conflicts

are fighting for the same reasons as the Vets,but i see only oil,oppertunism,and greed.And of course a great way for the new weaopns to be put to the test.

I am more terrified of the enemy within.Just my opinion,i dont think theres anything offensive in what i have said,i am sure you will let me know.CW

 

CW, Exceedingly well put Sir! There is nothing more profund that could be added to your post. I salute you. :saluting: Mike.

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i think its time for us to admit that its probably for the best that its the last one.

I wouldnt like to see the vets suffer that absolute shambles again.

Also at the risk of being contraversial maybe its best all round as there are so many people left out of these events.The french resistance.The thousands of civilians we killed bombing the enemy.I wonder if we would welcome this in England every 5yrs and every year as far as vehicle groups are concerned.It simple terms its like here we are again just to remind you how lucky you are we liberated you again.The young people i am sure must wander what all the fuss is about.The first world war the one to end all wars is not remebered to the same degree because of the time thats past,

Maybe its time to let go a little and let time do the same to ww2,let the French get on with there lives without this constant reminder.We must not forget allthough its our interest thro the vehicles War is evil and attrocities are commited by all sides

We need to concentrate on the erradicating of the causes,such as Poverty,injustice,

Greed,ignorance.Thats where the fight lies.

I wish i could believe the young men that are being killed in our modern day conflicts

are fighting for the same reasons as the Vets,but i see only oil,oppertunism,and greed.And of course a great way for the new weaopns to be put to the test.

I am more terrified of the enemy within.Just my opinion,i dont think theres anything offensive in what i have said,i am sure you will let me know.CW

 

Great view point CW - anyone else agree?

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Interleaved mate - makes it a bit easier.....

 

i think its time for us to admit that its probably for the best that its the last one.

I wouldnt like to see the vets suffer that absolute shambles again.

 

If the events were used to say "Thank you" to the Veterans as well as to remind the world of the true cost of war then I'd disagree with you.

The type of event we've seen recently where the veterans become an afterthought and the event is just a stage for politico's to grandstand it in front of the camera's I think makes you right.

 

Also at the risk of being contraversial maybe its best all round as there are so many people left out of these events.The french resistance.The thousands of civilians we killed bombing the enemy.I wonder if we would welcome this in England every 5yrs and every year as far as vehicle groups are concerned.It simple terms its like here we are again just to remind you how lucky you are we liberated you again.The young people i am sure must wander what all the fuss is about.

The event in question commemorates one decisive act on which - literally - the fate of the world hung. And which, in turn, hung on the courage, heroism and, ultimately, sacrifice of the (then) young men involved.

The bombing of civilians cuts both ways - but I doubt politicians would like/perit any events to memorialize those lost - think of the losses in Coventry, East London, Dresden, Hamburg etc. Also - off topic here - the bombing of civilian targets is a contentious issue. Perhaps the one thing to be remembered from this sad story is the Allied Forces didn't start it - they just finished it - remember the words of Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris - "They sowed the wind, now they shall reap the whirlwind". History shows it never really had the intended effect on either side. And it would be very hard to remind people every year with the "vehicles" from that era. There are only a handful of WW2 Allied bombers still flying - Halifax's, Wellingtons and Stirlings aren't amongst them - and to operate one of those would need a whole raft of the aviation equivalent of Jaques Littlefield. What would be appropriate - but is rarely if ever done - would be a memorial service for the aircrews and people lost in the campaigns.

Worth noting maybe that the politicians were only too keen to send young men off to die in the bomber fleets during the war but as soon as the war finished the whole campaign was swept under the carpet as an embarrassment. No chance of grandstanding it on memorials to those events.

 

 

The first world war the one to end all wars is not remebered to the same degree because of the time thats past,

Maybe its time to let go a little and let time do the same to ww2,let the French get on with there lives without this constant reminder.We must not forget although its our interest thro the vehicles War is evil and atrocities are committed by all sides

The First war was basically a connected series of monumental cock-ups by the General Staff who had trouble accepting times had changed since Waterloo. The troops at the time were described as "Lions led by donkeys". Not surprising there are no formal memorial occasions. Also - it was supposed to be the ware to end all wars so likely there was no need seen to remind people of the true cost of war as there would never be another. Pause for cynical laughter!!

That said - the ceremony at the Menin Gate is very memorable and absolutely regular.

 

We need to concentrate on the erradicating of the causes,such as Poverty,injustice,

Greed,ignorance.Thats where the fight lies.

Easy - get rid of politics and politicians.... Never gonna happen in our lifetimes.....

 

I wish i could believe the young men that are being killed in our modern day conflicts

are fighting for the same reasons as the Vets,but i see only oil,oppertunism,and greed.And of course a great way for the new weaopns to be put to the test.

I am more terrified of the enemy within.Just my opinion,i dont think theres anything offensive in what i have said,i am sure you will let me know.CW

You missed out stupidity! :) It seems to me the British Armed Forces have always suffered from being under equipped and overstretched at the start of any campaign. In the past those in power have had the sense to realize this and do something about it. The modern crop of politicos, coming as they do straight from Uni with no life experience, do not have the wit or intelligence to realize this and now leave the Forces to do more and more with less and less whilst money is hived off defense to give to Third World countries and of the money spent chunks are hived off by their mates in the contracting firms (Me?? Cynical?? perish the thought!!).

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i think its time for us to admit that its probably for the best that its the last one.

I wouldnt like to see the vets suffer that absolute shambles again.

Also at the risk of being contraversial maybe its best all round as there are so many people left out of these events.The french resistance.The thousands of civilians we killed bombing the enemy.I wonder if we would welcome this in England every 5yrs and every year as far as vehicle groups are concerned.It simple terms its like here we are again just to remind you how lucky you are we liberated you again.The young people i am sure must wander what all the fuss is about.The first world war the one to end all wars is not remebered to the same degree because of the time thats past,

Maybe its time to let go a little and let time do the same to ww2,let the French get on with there lives without this constant reminder.We must not forget allthough its our interest thro the vehicles War is evil and attrocities are commited by all sides

We need to concentrate on the erradicating of the causes,such as Poverty,injustice,

Greed,ignorance.Thats where the fight lies.

I wish i could believe the young men that are being killed in our modern day conflicts

are fighting for the same reasons as the Vets,but i see only oil,oppertunism,and greed.And of course a great way for the new weaopns to be put to the test.

I am more terrified of the enemy within.Just my opinion,i dont think theres anything offensive in what i have said,i am sure you will let me know.CW

 

You've said it all for me, John. Thank you very much.

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No comment, just an observation.

 

On the BBC news website are some photos from Normandy. There is a group photo of the VIPs attending the celebrations. The only one wearing Medals is Prince Charles.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8087107.stm

 

It struck me when the BBC showed him at Coleville with Obama, Sarkozy, Brown and whoever the Canadian PM is this week that Chas was something of an apendage. He was clearly embarrassed. I say leave these events to the veterans and the people who care.

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