Export licences for MVs

[Snapper]

Hello all,

 

Have any of you seen anything about the requirement to apply for an export licence to take your MV on the continent? This is even for just a holiday with you bringing it back? I had an email today concerning Normandy trips - but I am off to France in my MUTT on Wednesday for a few days on the Somme as a birthday present. I've made the application which concerns ground vehicles of any age if they were designed or modified for military purposes. I'm calling the government dept for guidance tomorrow. Anyone got anything else to add??

 

MB

[Marmite!!]

May be some info here http://www.mvt.org.uk/normandy/normandy_2009.html

[sirhc]

We filled in all that information, sent the money to the MVT and never heard back. I don't know what's supposed to happen?

[Snapper]

Much of their activity has essentially been with taking appropriate vehicles to Normandy. I am only going for a few days in France around the Somme with a different period vehicle altogether. But, according to the relevant government website, mvs of any period are covered. It looks like new(ish) legislation. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree altogether. I need to speak fast with anyone who has taken an MV to the continent since Feb to see if they have needed a licence. I don't want to arrive in Folkestone only to be turned back.

 

MB

[philb]

I also applied to the MVT as an individual. They were very helpful and I now have an authorisation code '007'. I'm just waiting for the supply of electronic gadgets (24V floating earth, of course) and a 'Miss Frost' like assistant!

[Snapper]

Good man,

 

I've been in touch with TootallMike about this and he would appear to be unaware of this UK legislation and had run MVs to Bethune in March. I spoke to ECO this morning. Applications for a licence take.....twenty days.

 

I hope the sender does not mind me repeating part of their email. It is for a good cause:

 

To start you will need to register as a user of the system and apply for a Licence. Go to https://www.spire.berr.gov.uk/ . Click on New Account Registration and create your account. SPIRE will send you a password (which you can subsequently change) by email.

Once into your newly created account on the far left hand side in the blue margin click ‘New Application’ (third one down). This will take you to the ‘Type of Application’ page. What you want is a ‘Standard Individual Export Licence’ (SIEL) (second one down) and you want the Temporary Export option, then click on Start Application to the right of the SIEL option.

There follows about ten pages of options and details to complete. Under ‘Other Details’ on the proposed licensee and contact pages we put ‘Commemoration tour to Normandy leaving ... returning to the UK on ... On the ‘Export Goods List’ page – this is where you’ll need to list one or more of the vehicles you are proposing to take to Normandy. We believe you can add as many as you wish but we were only registering two. Under description we gave a basic description of the vehicle, i.e. Dodge Command Car, followed by “No weapons or armourments included”. Part Number – you can put either the vehicle registration number or the chassis number. Under Relevant Control Entry you need to enter “ML6” – (this is the relevant category that refers to military vehicles in the 226 page list). Under Goods Quantity Measure give the ‘each’ option followed by Goods Quantity 1. Keep values low. Don’t include £ signs or commas (we did and it kept throwing this up as an error). Under Nature of Goods against 1) we checked ‘All’ and against 2) to 7) we checked ‘None’. The rest of the form is pretty self-explanatory but be careful when you get to the page that refers to ‘End User’ and ‘Consignee’ (which is you) – make sure you check BOTH options and re-enter your own details if you need to.

 

 

Ok, the horse has pretty much bolted from the stable....as said I called them this morning and the man from ECO insisted my MUTT is built for military purpose and requires a temporary export licence..It looks like this is stop the kind of armageddon being arranged by Kim Jong-il as we speak. Oh the irony.

 

So now you have this, it is all up to you. This is nothing to do with local Normandy laws. This is entirely home grown in the sunny UK.

 

M

Edited May 26, 2009 by Snapper

[sirhc]

It seems crazy that you need an export licence to take a 66 year old truck to France for a week. Would I still need one if it were painted red? I've filled in all this stuff, but we're going in a week so I guess it was a bit pointless.

[Snapper]

Agreed. We've applied. But the help guy I spoke to, who claimed to be a exMil Landy owner said it was the rules. He said I would not be able to take my vehicle and actually laughed. But this seems to fly in the face of experience of others. This is all out of the blue. It can't be that a whole throng of MV people would not have heard of this regulation if it were publicised and enforced properly. One friend I spoke to suspected it would only apply to armour. Who knows? This could all be a storm in a silly tea-cup. But I don't think the well respected group of people who sent the warning would be so shallow for one minute, nor that with their considerable experience that they would not have heard of this if it were in place. It's just too odd for words. Done up like a kipper.

 

MB

[Tony B]

I've e mailed the French consulate in London, see what they have to say.

[Degsy]

I've e mailed the French consulate in London, see what they have to say.

 

 

Why???:confused: Mark has made it clear that this is purely a homegrown UK issue.

[Tony B]

True Degsey, but, for the sake of an email asking if any special arrangements are needed to go into or through France could save a lot of cost and embarresment.

[Snapper]

Too late for me. The MUTT is on the trailer. I just find it all incredible. I'll let you know how we get on.

 

M

[Degsy]

True Degsey, but, for the sake of an email asking if any special arrangements are needed to go into or through France could save a lot of cost and embarresment.

 

 

I thought everybody knew well before now about having the permission of the local Mayor before going to Normandy:banghead:

[79x100]

Has anyone talked to the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs about this ? They are usually very quick to pick up on this sort of legislation.

 

Having read the government site, it seems to refer to those carrying out a business. I could see no reference to it applying to the private property of individuals.

 

Living abroad, I find it a bit worrying if I have to apply for an export licence every time I win an LV7 marked box of screws on eBay.

 

If these rules are as bad as feared and if every country in the EU were to impose these sort of export licensing requirements, much of our hobby will cease to exist.

[Richard Farrant]

I don't think these British export licences are new, and cannot really be applicable if you are travelling to and from an EU country, they are for permanent export situations. What those going to Normandy have had to apply for, through MVT, etc. is a French temporary import for ex-military equipment. This gives them details of when and where the vehicle is brought in and out of the country. Think that is where the confusion has arisen. This is all due to an old French law that was lying on the statute books and somebody has brought to life, hence why there is a problem for the French citizen to own armour now.

 

Just my thoughts........

[Kfz70]

It's cobblers. Well, sort of...

 

'Exporting' vintage military vehicles to the EU can be done on an Open General Export Licence if you meet the conditions. Details are here: http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/licences/ogels/military/page51544.html

 

If you don't believe me, contact the BERR yourself!!

 

Dave

[rippo]

Dont Take any notice, Im in the cafe on utar beach with my bedford a few hundred yards away, didnt have any trouble at the docks and had a miltary police escort to the site, someone has there fqcts WRONG ignore this rubbish, these foreign keyboads are all over the place

[Kfz70]

Dont Take any notice, Im in the cafe on utar beach with my bedford a few hundred yards away, didnt have any trouble at the docks and had a miltary police escort to the site, someone has there fqcts WRONG ignore this rubbish, these foreign keyboads are all over the place

 

Actually.... if you read the link, the licence requirements came into force yesterday.

 

This OGEL allows, subject to certain conditions, vintage military vehicles (falling within entry ML6) manufactured 50 years or more before the export date, to be exported to EU countries for not more than three months.

 

I've spent an hour on the phone to the BERR this morning who have verified that this is very much the case, likewise HMRC have also confirmed the requirements regarding licences. As I work for one of them, I know it to be very much the case...

[Snapper]

I apologise if I started a panic/ripple/guffaw here. I was preparing for my trip to the Somme - NOT Normandy - when I got a chance email from a photographer friend which had come to him via several IMPS and other highly experienced MV people who clearly had been taken aback by the regulation which they were attempting to deal with. So, when I contacted the Export Control Organisation - A British Government Agency no less - the chap I spoke to yesterday confirmed that to take any MV of any age out of the UK for even a visit to an EU country, requried a Temporary Export Licence which takes twenty days to issue. He laughed when I said I needed one in time for me to travel today. But I can tell you that I am now here in Longueval and the Customs/Whatever at Chunnel Folkestone did not bat an eyelid. In fact the biggest problem we had was a leaky transmission on the GMC van towing the MUTT.

 

So I have to take the impression that this regulation does exist but how and whether it is enforced is a moot point. We were sure it could only apply to current use equipment, not anything classic. But matey boy at the ECO, who claimed to be a military Landy owner, insisted there was no age limit and laughed like Alan bloody Partridge when I explained my case.

 

I hope this is is the last of this. Obviously the issue is wholly separate from what the French are doing nationally and locally in Normandy to manage the influx of MVs. We saw a big convoy of half-tracks and stuff in the services on the A1 just after you turn off the A26 at Arras.

 

Good luck to everyone going to Normandy. Maybe you can sneak our dear Queen Elizabeth in to one of your motors to defy Sarkozy - the ignorant tw4t.

 

Mark

Longueval on the Somme battlefield.

[Tony B]

From what I hear even the French don't like Sarkozy. I know a French lady who works at a national musuem over here, who was kept away fron him when he visited in case she started on him.:-D

[Marmite!!]

Talking about it on the WW2 Forum... http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=161&t=52793

 

This advice on applying has been borrowed from an MVT forum site;

 

 

 

 

Not sure what site they are talking about... thought the MVT didn't allow any forums?? seems to be the same stuff emailed to Snapper

[nz2]

Interesting problem over there.

What do those controlling the rules class as military?

Would a Landrover set up as a field ambulance be military because of its paint job, but what of an identical vehicle body with a different paint scheme, say a Red Cross Ambulance?

Doug