Fox Owners, chime in

[robin craig]

This is Chris's Fox rebuild

 

 

 

Robin

[sirhc]

Thanks Robin, I was going to post that link myself.

 

Chris

[datadawg]

This is Chris's Fox rebuild

 

 

 

Robin

Robin, thanks for the link. Chris, one of the youtube comments mentions a Fox CVRW facebook group. I never found anything, do you know if that group still exists? I expect my Fox to arrive to USA in early 2016, so I'm keen to find who might have them on this side of the pond. I know of only two or three so far.

[robin craig]

Once again, I am going to beat Chris to reply, nut that is only because of the time difference.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CRVFOX/

 

Robin

[Newcoregon]

Hi all; There is a restored Fox in Oregon USA, engine went bad [sleeved model] someday a later 4.2 will get installed. It did go 60 mph on an Idaho freeway... slight down hill grade. Newc in Oregon

[sirhc]

This is an old list of surviving Foxes:

 

00 SP 87 Tank Museum Dorset, UK Prototype

00 SP 89 Tank Museum Dorset, UK Prototype

03 SP 83 Vixen 1

03 SP 85 Tank Museum Dorset, UK Vixen 3

08 FD 58 Kent, UK Restored

08 FD 67 Southampton, UK Restored

08 FD 73 Sweden

08 FD 92 Kent, UK Under Restoration

08 FD 98 Ohio, USA Imported 1996

09 FD 17 Rugby, UK Under Restoraion

09 FD 27 Aldershot Museum UK Restored

09 FD 31 Kent, UK Restored

09 FD 37 Ex NL Barmy Army UK

09 FD 47 USA

09 FD 58 Scotland Under Restoration

09 FD 64, UK Restored

09 FD 65 BE Boys Lancs, UK Restored

09 FD 82 Essex, UK Restored

09 FD 83 Broken up

09 FD 91 Staffs, UK Under Restoration

09 FD 96 UK Under Restoration

09 FD 99 Withams 2004-1

10 FD 04 Kent, UK Under Restoration

10 FD 20 Frankfurt, Germany BRX354T

10 FD 22 Helston Cornwall, UK For Sale

10 FD 34 Unknown Unknown Marcus Glenn

10 FD 51 Fulford Barracks York, UK Gate Guard

10 FD 62 USA Restored

10 FD 67 Croydon, UK Restored

10 FD 68 California, USA Under Restoration

10 FD 72 Jersey Restored

10 FD 76 Scotland Restored

11 FD 04 UK Restored

11 FD 02 British Military Vehicles UK Under Restoration

11 FD 05 Ohio, USA Imported 1997

11 FD 17 Secret Bunker Scotland Restored

11 FD 19 Kent, UK Under Restoration

11 FD 24 UK Restored

00 GM 88 Kent, UK Under Restoration

00 GM 99 UK Under Restoration

00 GM 86 Belgium Restored

01 GM 00 Texas, USA Restored

01 GM 09 BE Boys Lancs, UK Restored

01 GM 10 Scotland Polecat

01 GM 26 UK Restored

01 GM 32 RMCS Shrivenham UK Restored

01 GM 39 RAF Tain UK Hard Target

01 GM 40 UK Restored

01 GM 44 Withams 2004-1

01 GM 46 Aldershot, UK Gate Guard

01 GM 48 Seen on web

Unknown Richard Rombauer Washington, USA

11 EC 27 BE Boys Lancs, UK Wrong Reg

RUF939M UK

Unknown USA Restored

705 ILZ Unknown UK Beltring 1999

 

 

Several of these have changed hands since, and a few more have surfaced.

[oats and barley]

awhile ago i am sure i saw jolley of electric ignition fame selling one. and not so long ago there was the wreck in the field under corrugated iron ebay i think :cry:

[Bob Grundy]

Just for the update to records, British Military Vehicles have not had 11 FD 02 for many a year

[Corbs]

awhile ago i am sure i saw jolley of electric ignition fame selling one. and not so long ago there was the wreck in the field under corrugated iron ebay i think :cry:

 

That'll be the one in the Shopland Collection

http://shoplandcollection.com/armour/84-armour/88-fox-cvr

 

Haven't been able to decipher the number yet but Richard reckons it might be a prototype due to the towing eyes on the front being in different positions, wading screen still fitted and 00 number.

 

It's engine-less and for sale (open to offers, looking for about £1.5k for it).

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Corbs

[datadawg]

My Fox finally arrived a couple weeks ago after a complete overhaul in UK. The experience of getting extracted from the container was more painful than a root canal. They only used 2 straps to secure it, and it shifted during transit, with the left side pressed solid into the container. It was impossible to winch out straight without damaging the side, but we managed to coax it out after an hour of grunt work.

 

Even worse, I had been told that after the container got loaded in England and the truck (lorry) left, one of the straps snapped. The driver came back and the strap was replaced, but when the Fox emerged from the container on this side of the Atlantic, the damage was evident -- both fenders were smashed in.

But my bad luck doesn't end here. A few days after delivery, I finally got the courage to try to start it (I needed the time to familiarize myself with the manuals). It cranked and cranked and never even coughed to life. So I now have to figure out why it's comatose.

 

The final nail in my coffin? After a week of sitting, there was a loud pppffff noise, and when I ran out, I saw the rear tire was completely flat. Tried to pump it up, but air is escaping around the valve stem, from somewhere inside the rim.

 

This hobby is supposed to be fun, but I feel like I just got my nuts stuck in a meat grinder.

[robin craig]

Welcome to the world of trans-atlantic armour movement, been there done that gone many T shirts.

 

It will buff out, eventually

[11rjkg]

I still have a few vehicle transfers from my time on CVR (W) whilst with 'Y' Sqn, QOY and 'A' Sqn, RY. Attached photo shows what I have.

 

The RAC sign and NE Dist badge were both from 'Y' Sqn, but I can't ever recall then being applied to the vehicles. What we did apply were regimental transfers of the yellow QOY fox badge on a black rectangle. These were applied to either side of the hull just below the turret ring, and to the front of the II sight cowl. Alternatively, they were applied to either side of the turret (as per the photo below).

I seem to recall that when I first joined in 1979 squadron symbols were normally stencilled to either side of the turret in red paint, and a squadron pennant attached to the antennae. The regimental transfers were then applied to the sides of the hull. This would have been late '70's / early '80's, but I think by then the practice of applying insignia was already on the way out.

 

The 'A' (Royal Wilts Yeomanry) Sqn transfers were periodically applied to the front of the II sight cowl, but by the late '80's I seem to recall that no unit insignia were applied except the black NZ fern leaf stencilled onto the reverse of the R/O/S wing.

 

Have attached a couple of pics; one showing the QOY parading in front of the Queen in CVR(w)'s during the inauguration of 2 Div in Imphal Bks , York about 1982. Note the transfers on the turret sides.

 

The other pic is just a random Fox on exercise with no insignia shown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[datadawg]

Welcome to the world of trans-atlantic armour movement, been there done that gone many T shirts.

 

It will buff out, eventually

Robin, you are right, trans Atlantic armor movement is not for the faint hearted! I know you have your own Fox albatross sitting in a container, waiting for its mechanical issues to be sorted, but unfortunately, there are too few Fox owners on this side of the pond. There are probably less than 10 Foxes in North America, that's a thin herd. It's not like I can spring for steak and burgers and have 3 Fox owners drop in on Saturday to work on our machines. So the knowledge base is hard to access. I did buy the parts manual, user handbook, servicing schedule and 3 books on repairs, but even dealing with a flat tire has been a challenge, since I'm mechanically inexperienced. I couldn't even get an estimate from a body shop for fixing the fenders, they couldn't even price it, never seen a Fox, much less worked on one!!

[sirhc]

It's a shame your Fox got damaged during shipping, but it does seem to happen a lot. It doesn't look like anything too serious, but your first mistake is thinking like a car owner and not a military vehicle owner! A bodyshop is not really going to want to help you, but most things on the Fox are fairly flat and simple.

 

You should take the damaged wings off and take them down to a few sheet metal/fabrication places. I have found the smaller backstreet companies (one man in a shed) are more willing to help more than anywhere big.

 

Your flat tyre issue is probably only going to be solved by replacing the inner tube, as you have had new tyres fitted the wheels should come apart easily. This is something you can attempt, but you will need strong arms, big hammers and a lot of levers. I'd suggest getting some friends round to help, they do not need to be Fox owners to help you pry the tyre off the rim.

 

Regarding starting the engine, with the power and ignition on, can you hear the electric fuel pump ticking? If yes, did you pull out the choke?

 

Finally a lot of Foxes were modified by fitting a bumper across the front of the wings, it might be worth getting someone to make one up for you?

 

 

I agree this hobby is supposed to be fun, but the fun comes from overcoming the issues and feeling proud about the problems you have solved, either trying to locate hard to find parts or making it to or from a show despite the setbacks. We always go out with thought that we might break down, and a plan for recovery, that way when everything goes well it is a win. You've bought an old vehicle, not a new BMW, when in service it would have had much more care an attention every day to keep it in working order than any civilian owners will give it, and even then it would have broken down and had issues.

 

Chris

Edited May 2, 2016 by sirhc

[robin craig]

Datadawg,

 

come up to the Aquino Event in Oshawa at the end of this month and we can have a chat about getting you repaired.

 

I hate to burst you bubble or make you feel down about the hobby, but I am afraid I agree with Chris as to how to solve your problems.

 

The joy of the MV hobby is figuring it out for yourself and making new friends and learning new skills. While I am in my 50s and can weld and fabricate like a demon, mechanical work and the like is a learning curve for me also.

 

You need to find a retired mechanic who can become your play buddy who either gets paid in giggles as driver / commander with you or gets paid liquid cash. I have seen folks post pictures of their vehicle in local parts wholesaler counters with wordage like "want to help me with my tank". Sure you get a few nut jobs and wannabees but you might make a good friend through that.

 

Look at the Texas Dragoons mob.

 

We (people like Chris and I) see people come into the hobby and try to help as best we can with advice or inspiration where we can but only help so much.

 

A place to store and work on your vehicle, good manuals and some basic shop tools and work outwards from there. Plunging in with two vehicles is very gutsy.

 

Here to help when I can, and yes I know Chris personally and trust him implicitly, he is telling you the straight goods.

[datadawg]

You should take the damaged wings off and take them down to a few sheet metal/fabrication places.

 

Your flat tyre issue is probably only going to be solved by replacing the inner tube, as you have had new tyres fitted the wheels should come apart easily.

 

Regarding starting the engine, with the power and ignition on, can you hear the electric fuel pump ticking? If yes, did you pull out the choke?

 

Finally a lot of Foxes were modified by fitting a bumper across the front of the wings, it might be worth getting someone to make one up for you?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]114720[/ATTACH]

 

I agree this hobby is supposed to be fun, but the fun comes from overcoming the issues and feeling proud about the problems you have solved, either trying to locate hard to find parts or making it to or from a show despite the setbacks. We always go out with thought that we might break down, and a plan for recovery, that way when everything goes well it is a win. You've bought an old vehicle, not a new BMW, when in service it would have had much more care an attention every day to keep it in working order than any civilian owners will give it, and even then it would have broken down and had issues.

 

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the advice. I had managed to remove the wheel a week ago, though I was hampered by several problems: (a) wife factor, as in "WTF are you going to work on that damn thing, when you haven't fixed the bathroom mirror in a year??" (b) it was parked on grass and I only have a 3 ton floor jack and two 3 ton jack stands and © I was mighty scared to do something stupid due to inexperience, like have Fox collapse on my foot. The 3 ton jack barely did the job, though I need to amass some lumber to make the job easier next time. My wife is traveling on business all week, so yesterday, I felt emboldened to take the next step and break down the tire. It's much easier to do the job when I'm not competing with her honey-do list, lol. I don't have a lot of tools, but surprisingly, the red lug nuts came apart even with my electric (cheapo) impact gun and the rim came out with minimal persuasion. To my relief, the culprit was the inner tube, so I am going to buy a replacement. To your point, I feel very emboldened and a little proud of myself I managed to get this resolved -- at least I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

On the starting issue, I do hear rapid clicking of the fuel pump, but the engine never catches. I had tried choke before, but I was terrified of fouling the plugs and only tried it in 1st position. Which position should I try it in, if the temperature outside is, say 15 Celsius? I called the guy who overhauled it in UK and he was trying to give me instructions, but it's hard to hold the phone and listed while trying to start the Fox, and I managed to run down the batteries in any event. He also was telling me to pump the gas pedal, but I think the book had said not to do that, so I was very conflicted of whether to follow his starting instructions. By the time I charged my low batteries, I discovered the flat tire issue, so starting it seemed moot.

 

Maybe it's something silly like no fuel... he told me he had the fuel selector on Reserve, because fuel was low, but when I look at the fuel selector, I can't tell which side is pointing to reserve and which is pointing to main -- the selector has a longer side with a hole in it and the other side is shorter. However, I don't know which of them is the operative pointer and which is the grip for your fingers to move the selector. The book has no pictures...

 

Once I get the tire fixed, I will try to start it again.

[datadawg]

Datadawg,

 

come up to the Aquino Event in Oshawa at the end of this month and we can have a chat about getting you repaired.

 

I have seen folks post pictures of their vehicle in local parts wholesaler counters with wordage like "want to help me with my tank". Sure you get a few nut jobs and wannabees but you might make a good friend through that.

 

Robin, thanks for the heads up. I would love to go to Aquino, but not sure if I can make it given work and family obligations. Will investigate further. My one big concern is, if I go there, I might buy another vehicle:nut:. Your idea of posting on parts counters is interesting, haven't thought of that, but it's a brilliant plan!

[Enigma]

Tyre;

Don't forget to check the inside of the tyre for debris a nail or similar.

Its no fun installing a new inner tube, inflating and finding out someting was in the tyre.

And not only check the inside but also from the outside.

 

On my bicycle....(hey,no laughing in the back) I patched the innertube several times and it leaked in the same place but I could feel nothing on the inside of the outer tyre.

 

It turned ou to be a small piece of iron. It couldn't be felt on the inside but when driving it got pushed in, puncturing the inner tube.

 

Annoying on a bicycle but mega annoying on a tyre like yours.

[datadawg]

Tyre;

Don't forget to check the inside of the tyre for debris a nail or similar.

Its no fun installing a new inner tube, inflating and finding out someting was in the tyre.

 

Thanks for the tip. I did find a tiny stone, about 1/2 the size of a cherry pit, inside the tire. The reason I had a flat was the tube had split or rotted right near the rim.

 

I replaced the inner tube with a brand new 11.00 20 inner tube, but I have a couple questions to the experts:

 

1. The Fox wheel lacked an inner tube flap, it only had an inner tube and a piece of hardened foam that fit over the valve stem to block out road debris from getting into the tire through the hole in the rim around the valve stem. Do I need an inner tube flap? Here is a youtube video of showing the flap being inserted, it clearly is designed to protect the inner tube. Given that Fox has a hole in its rim around the valve stem, I'm wondering whether road debris will be kept out with just the hardened foam piece fitted. The foam piece was a square roughly 4 inches per side.

 

2. I did not inflate the inner tube slightly before fitting the rims. Watching the video above, I see they put some air in before fitting the rim, and I'm wondering if my failure to do this is problem -- will the tube get pinched or will this somehow restrict full inflation? I tried to be careful and not pinch the inner tube when inserting the rim sections into the tire, but I can't say I'd bet my life on it. I've assembled the wheel by now, so should I break down everything and redo it?

 

3. What is the correct PSI? The tire says 100 PSI, but I recall seeing a lower tire pressure in one of the manuals -- I just can't find now where I saw the info.

 

4. The nuts securing the rim together had a lot of crud on the threads and were very difficult to turn. I cleaned them a little bit, but decided to put a few drops of oil on the threads to make it easier to turn. Now, I'm concerned I was an idiot -- if the oil will make it easier for the nuts to get loose. I torqued them to at least 150 ft lbs (the limit of what my torque wrench shows), but is putting oil on wheel nuts a mistake?

Edited May 5, 2016 by datadawg

[sirhc]

You should have something between the rim and the tube. Originally it could have been a Hutchinson (I think) insert which is a pain to remove, but if I were you I'd get some standard flaps to put in there.

 

Tyre pressure, you don't have standard tyres so not much point checking the user handbook etc. What are the others inflated to?

 

I don't think the oil on the threads should be too big a problem.

 

Chris

[Richard Farrant]

I replaced the inner tube with a brand new 11.00 20 inner tube, but I have a couple questions to the experts:

 

1. The Fox wheel lacked an inner tube flap, it only had an inner tube and a piece of hardened foam that fit over the valve stem to block out road debris from getting into the tire through the hole in the rim around the valve stem. Do I need an inner tube flap? Here is a youtube video of showing the flap being inserted, it clearly is designed to protect the inner tube. Given that Fox has a hole in its rim around the valve stem, I'm wondering whether road debris will be kept out with just the hardened foam piece fitted. The foam piece was a square roughly 4 inches per side.

 

2. I did not inflate the inner tube slightly before fitting the rims. Watching the video above, I see they put some air in before fitting the rim, and I'm wondering if my failure to do this is problem -- will the tube get pinched or will this somehow restrict full inflation? I tried to be careful and not pinch the inner tube when inserting the rim sections into the tire, but I can't say I'd bet my life on it. I've assembled the wheel by now, so should I break down everything and redo it?

 

3. What is the correct PSI? The tire says 100 PSI, but I recall seeing a lower tire pressure in one of the manuals -- I just can't find now where I saw the info.

 

4. The nuts securing the rim together had a lot of crud on the threads and were very difficult to turn. I cleaned them a little bit, but decided to put a few drops of oil on the threads to make it easier to turn. Now, I'm concerned I was an idiot -- if the oil will make it easier for the nuts to get loose. I torqued them to at least 150 ft lbs (the limit of what my torque wrench shows), but is putting oil on wheel nuts a mistake?

 

The original tyres on a Fox were Dunlop Trackgrip Runflats, as Ferret, Saracen, etc. with the heavy bead spacer. Then the Michelin tyres were superseded in army service, they were basically a standard truck tyre with a Hutchinson runflat insert fitted. As you are using conventional tyres on a divided rim, it is standard practise to use a flap so that the tube is not pinched in the rim, it also protects the valve stem from chaffing.

 

You mention tyre pressures in the manual, be aware the military did not use conventional tyres, these pressures are for runflat tyres. You will have to check the details of the tyres fitted and also ensure they are of adequate load rating. This info may be on the sidewall.

 

regards, Richard

Edited May 5, 2016 by Richard Farrant
Chris has already mentioned about the tyre pressures, missed that.