Marmite!! Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I have heard about them being top heavy.But was that enough of a reason to withdraw them from service???. Surely from a maintaince point of view,,the drive train must be less complex than a CVRT???.I thought that would have been enough to keep them in service,or were there other issues?. I think It was the amount of fatal accidents they had that made them withdraw them. When I took part in the TA100 on Horse Guards last year I met a large number on Ex-Fox crew & nearly everyone I talked to mentioned a fatal accident.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 A CVRT is very simple compared to a Fox, there's almost nothing to a CVRT. You can change an engine or gearbox on a CVRT in an hour or 2. To get the gearbox out of the Fox you need to remove the turret and the entire interior. It is only just possible to get it out the back, been there done that, but you have to remove pretty much EVERYTHING from the inside of the vehicle. Any job on a Fox becomes long and involved. I think Fox was withdrawn from service because it was a nightmare to look after compared with the simple CVRT. The Scorpion was withdrawn from service because the extraction system was ineffective and crews were becoming ill after firing the gun. This was around the time of the army reductions in the mid 90's and they had to reduce the number of vehicles. This is where the Sabre came in, Sabre is almost a Scimitar and it made sense to swap the turrets over. They got rid of all the Foxes and Scorpions and replaced them with 136 hybrids. I have never heard anyone say Fox was withdrawn because they had too many accidents. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I have heard about them being top heavy.But was that enough of a reason to withdraw them from service???. Surely from a maintaince point of view,,the drive train must be less complex than a CVRT???.I thought that would have been enough to keep them in service,or were there other issues?. Mark, I was involved in the repair and maintenance of Foxes from when they entered service around 1976, till the last ones were withdrawn in early 1990's. From the very outset, they were troublesome, I recollect the high number of modification instructions in the early days. Regarding top heavy, I think more is made about fatal accidents than actually happened, the number of vehicles that came in for repairs after a rollover was very small, and we had a large number of dependants in our area. The maintenance of a CVR(T) is far easier than a Fox. The engine and gearbox is outside the turret area on a CVR(T), transmission gave less trouble than fluid flywheel and Wilson box and wheel stations. Also they did suffer cracks in certain areas, most worrying was the steering mounting. This could happen after a hefty thump to a front wheel station, like hitting a tree stump, etc. This may not be the picture that private owners see of them, but when you had to keep them in active service, parts in short supply with long delays, you will understand. Other than that, they were a treat to drive........especially when the turret was removed :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 If there are only 50 left worldwide.Then what happened to the other 250 or so that made up production?. Just memorys now.But iremember seeing these along with CVRT,s every weekend trundling along Clapham road s.e.london.They were operated by the royal yeomanary T.A unit out the duke of yorks on the kings rd.You wouldnt get any T.A unit now with armour. When was this Mark?? Up till 1980 at least the inhabitants of the Duke of Yorks were: 21 SAS - A, HQ Sqns, OPS-INT, Signals, Training Wing, MT & REME HQ of D(SAS) A RAMC unit A Para-Artillery unit 63 Signals No armour of any sort was based there in my days. I think - but can't be sure that the Royal Yeomanry were over at Regents Park barracks??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Another vehicle to cross off the wants list then.great thread though.I did think they were quite stable.I was rather impressed with them after going for a blast around the arena in Lee,s one at beltring last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 When was this Mark?? Up till 1980 at least the inhabitants of the Duke of Yorks were: 21 SAS - A, HQ Sqns, OPS-INT, Signals, Training Wing, MT & REME HQ of D(SAS) A RAMC unit A Para-Artillery unit 63 Signals No armour of any sort was based there in my days. I think - but can't be sure that the Royal Yeomanry were over at Regents Park barracks??? This was mid 80,s through to the very early 90,s..I am assuming it was from there.As i followed a convoy of Foxes and CVRT,s once from the gate.It followed the exact route up Clapham road,where i used to see them go past every saturday and sunday mornings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hmm - they might have been moved in during the reshuffle to close the DoY down. I know 21 went to Regents Park (rather unhappily) - they might have rotated with the Yeomanry??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Fox pictures from D Sqn QOY. Top: Myself and gnr outside Rothbury in Northumbria awaiting recovery Bottom on Ex in germany Edited March 7, 2009 by Bazz more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 More in Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 It still used to make a great sight every weekend.You could hear the whine from the engines,and the noise of the tracks from 500 yds away.You would then look and see a convoy of lights and orange beacons.It always would stop people in there tracks(pardon the pun) Funny thing was there was always a fitters 109 or 110 following behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Great pics.Keep them coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Thats all I've got on this computer, I'll look on my other and see if I can find some more. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Engine removal prior to disposal. What happened to the Foxes I don't know, but the engine packs were stripped down. The engines themselves went back in to stores, the rest went to a scrap yard. Luckily Helston Gunsmiths managed to buy the bits and sat on them for a long time. When they were offered for sale I went down there and spent a day rooting through all the stillages of spares. I managed to find everything except for an oil filter bracket, the aux drive flange and one pipe! Second photo shows our rebuilt pack, the engine was a recon unit I found on its own amongst several hundred CVRT take outs - most had holes in the side. The fan pack came out of a crate, the radiators were fitted with new cores. Stupid photos in wrong order, but you get the idea! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Engine removal prior to disposal. What happened to the Foxes I don't know, but the engine packs were stripped down. The engines themselves went back in to stores, the rest went to a scrap yard. Luckily Helston Gunsmiths managed to buy the bits and sat on them for a long time. When they were offered for sale I went down there and spent a day rooting through all the stillages of spares. I managed to find everything except for an oil filter bracket, the aux drive flange and one pipe! Second photo shows our rebuilt pack, the engine was a recon unit I found on its own amongst several hundred CVRT take outs - most had holes in the side. The fan pack came out of a crate, the radiators were fitted with new cores. Stupid photos in wrong order, but you get the idea! Chris If most of these were scrapped,then how did some make it in to private hands?.And what parts are hard/or near on impossible to get?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I guess a similar thing happened to the Foxes that has happened to the CVRTs which came out in 2004. Some were bought by enthusiasts, others by dealers, but the majority of them went for scrap. Those which remain now command a high price. When it comes to Fox bits, it's easier to say what's easy to find. Basically anything common with CVRT you can locate, so thats the engine block, starter, carb etc, periscopes and the odd fixtures and fittings. The fans, flywheel, exhaust, radiators etc are unique. While they were around in 2003/4, they aren't anymore. All the Fox projects are gone, so are the engine spares, and there will be no more. When it comes to wheel stations or gearbox you can forget it. The gearbox has some common parts to Ferret, but the vehicle weighs twice as much, which is why I think they are prone to failure. The brake calipers are common to Stalwart, so you can get the pads though! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 From what you said it looks very depressing for wanting to own one.More time looking for parts than actually enjoying it.Shame,as they really look the part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Not at all! They are great fun to drive, and if you have one that's been well restored you won't need to look for all the bits. You just need to make sure you look after it! The sad thing is, the vehicles which you see for sale are usually the poorly restored ones. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 A mate of mine up here has three foxes, well actually two and a version that was a demonstrator for ALVIS overseas sales, i cant remember what it was called, not a Fox though, looks like a very big ferret, different shaped turret, i think they were trying to punt it out to a South American country but was never taken on, i think it was called a Polecat, i will ask next time i see him, he will probably sell it/them, as he is looking at scaling down his collection to a few trucks and a ferret/pig/champ! Another mate has a Fox as well, common as muck up here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 The last one i saw for sale was a couple of years back,at a reasonable £11,000.But when i enquired about it the fella withdrew it from sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 A mate of mine up here has three foxes, well actually two and a version that was a demonstrator for ALVIS overseas sales, i cant remember what it was called, not a Fox though, looks like a very big ferret, different shaped turret, i think they were trying to punt it out to a South American country but was never taken on, i think it was called a Polecat, i will ask next time i see him, he will probably sell it/them, as he is looking at scaling down his collection to a few trucks and a ferret/pig/champ!Another mate has a Fox as well, common as muck up here!! Vixen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Boyes has foxes for 12000. What's wrong with boyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Boyes has foxes for 12000. What's wrong with boyes? Look further back in the thread to what people have said about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Boyes has foxes for 12000. What's wrong with boyes? Ok if you want a Gate Guard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Ok if you want a Gate Guard... :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 When they withdrew the Fox, did they then try it as a Vixen with a smaller turret and gun. :??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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