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Mobile Project Vehicles

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Not MOT interest but this may well be worth looking at for owners who transport their vehicles to shows, bren carriers etc. Have a look on the DVLA website, under exempted large goods vehicles. This seems to sat that you may drive a vehicle well over 7.5 tons on a car licence if you meet the criteria. The place you are looking for is Mobile Project Vehicles

Edited by Marmite!!
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Not MOT interest but this may well be worth looking at for owners who transport their vehicles to shows, bren carriers etc. Have a look on the DVLA website, under exempted large goods vehicles. This seems to sat that you may drive a vehicle well over 7.5 tons on a car licence if you meet the criteria. The place you are looking for is Mobile Project Vehicles

 

There's loads of exemption & Mobile Project Vehicles is not one that would apply to many. if any on here...

Edited by Marmite!!
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There's loads of exemption & Mobile Project Vehicles is not one that would apply to many. if any on here...

The criteria stated in the DVLA information sheet states, Quote, mobile project vehicles i play/ educational equipment and articles required in connection with the use of such equiptment, ii articles required for the purpose of display or of an exebition, and the primary purpose of which is used as a recreational, educational or instructional facility when stationary, etc.As I understand this section, if using a "lorry" to take its load, MV to a show or to a school to show the children as part of their curriculum, or to a village fete. Then these journey"s meet the criteria set out in the exemptions.

car licence.jpg

Edited by Marmite!!
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It has to be registered as a mobile project vehicle...

Edited by Marmite!!

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But as its restricted to

 

“on roads only in passing between different areas of land occupied by the same person” and “in passing between two such areas does not travel a distance exceeding 1.5 kilometres on roads”

 

You are not going to travel far.

Edited by Marmite!!

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Think you may have mis-read this slightly - the info on Mobile Project Vehicles is only the section attached below - the rest applies to other exemptions - section you quote is, I think, for Agricultural Vehicles:

car licence.jpg

Edited by Marmite!!

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There's loads of exemption & Mobile Project Vehicles is not one that would apply to many. if any on here...

 

There is at least one heavy vehicle using this exemption on the show circuit, it is booked in every year to some sort of school event in order to comply.

Edited by Marmite!!

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I know someone who has an AEC Militant recovery registered as a mobile project vehicle. He tows a brockhouse type trailer behind it and he doesn't have an HGV. He attends GDSF from his home, that is , I believe ,in Sussex. He has a letter from DVLA, that I have seen that says the vehicle is an educational vehicle, and he can drive it on a B licence.

 

Personally, I believe DVLA are wrong, and whatever their letter to him says he can do, he could end up getiing prosecuted for driving "other than according to the terms of his licence". (for no other reason, than he is towing a living van with a project vehicle, and he doesn't hold a large trailer licence)

 

This is my own personal view and doesn't necessarilly reflect the views of the forum, or those who run it.

Edited by Marmite!!

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Thats stating the B++++ obvious.

 

No it's not... there's some out there (& on here) that think that they can just call it a MPV & they have an exemption, using it as an excuse for not having a HGV licence..

Edited by Marmite!!

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No it's not... there's some out there (& on here) that think that they can just call it a MPV & they have an exemption, using it as an excuse for not having a HGV licence..

If you read the DVLA sheet I reproduced for every one to look at you will see that nowhere does it mention agri. vehicles. What is this comment about people using the legislation to have an excuse for not having an HGV licence. If the rules say that if you can prove that the vehicle is being only used as aMPV then what is your problem in people execising their right under the law.The question is not "that they call it an MPV and drive on regardless, they must satisfy the legal criteria, if so, perfectly legal.

Now to act as a devils witness, how about the lorry drivers driving a lorry on a car licence because it is over a certain age and does not require a ministry test. O.K. is used unladen. How many of you know of such vehicles carring kit in the rear, used as a mobile home, etc. In which case totally illegal unless the vehicle has a ministry test certificate, the driver has a driving licence to cover them for that class of vehicle. not having these docs. the insurance is invalid and the vehicle could be seized by Police.

Edited by Marmite!!

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But as its restricted to

 

“on roads only in passing between different areas of land occupied by the same person” and “in passing between two such areas does not travel a distance exceeding 1.5 kilometres on roads”

 

You are not going to travel far.

You are talking about agri. tractors and are in the wrong section. Please take a look at the page I took the trouble to print out and look at the fourth paragraph up you will see that a new section has started relating to MPV

Edited by Marmite!!

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What about my comments on using old lorries as camper wagons, carring loads in the back as being totally illegal. Where is the thread that I should make my comments on MPV. I would have thought by the replys so far very few people were aware of the legislation, there for in the spirit of widening everyones knowledge I posted the subject. If you do not want to know anything from me then say so and I will keep the benefit of my research to myself. As for my comments or language there are plenty of worse on other threads.

 

The carriage of personal kit, camping gear etc is perfectly legal, however fitting fridge,cooker etc is probably excessive and could lead to problems.

Edited by Marmite!!

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The problem with MPV is you have to show its primary purpose is recreational, ie it has play equipment on board, (known as a play bus) if it doesn't have toys and the like for kids to play with it isn't recreational.

 

It primary purpose may also be for exhibition or instructional use. Ie it carries display boards to convey certain facts about a subject, or it is being used as a mobile classroom..

 

If it is at a MV show, the chances are that most of the people seeing it are ex servicemen and their families, and then there is nothing new to add to the Ex Soldiers knowledge so you cannot claim to be educating him. ( a lot of them can tell us more about the vehicles than we ourselves know. )

 

A similar, but opposite situation applies if the bulk of those attending the show are bored families out for a jaunt on a Saturday afternoon, cos they can't think of anything better, they have had a couple of pints in the beer tent, and have been round the trade stands to find the kids some sandals, and a pair of sunglasses, and are walking past a line of vehicles, out of duty cos they paid their entrance fee and want value for money, not knowing or particularly caring about what they see, and they ceratinly have no interest or intention of reading any information, we the exhibitors, put on the vehicles. They are not being educated, nor do they want to be.

 

We cannot use the MPV for fundraising for Poppy Appeal, (primary use is getting people to give their cash!), and we ceratinly couldn't have a road run, or a trip to the local pub!

 

I suggest the primary use of an alleged MPV is actually a day out for the owner, who wants to go to a show to be with his mates and the like., but isn't prepared to take an HGV test. I doubt whther with any truthfulness we can say we take our vehicles to shows to educate the public, and go out of our way to inform and instruct them. no we want to park up and get in the beer tent.

 

 

When you take an MPV somewhere it is to park it up, the road journey is just to get you there. I don't think if you are driving around an arena, you can satify the "primary use ....when stationary "clause. I do not think an MPV can be used for educational purposes other than when it is parked. If you want to go the MPV route, do not go around the arena!

 

The main thing about an MPV is it is a vehicle used to transport equipment, and it provides an area where that equipment may be used. The MPV is just a means to an end, getting the equipment to the playgroup, or the class. The MPV wasn't I suggest the Equipment or the educational material, it merely carries it, then provides an area for its use. Unless people enter an MPV to spend time at play play, or to be educated, then it isn't an MPV.

 

I took my HGV and I feel I am a safer, better driver for the experience. I suggest the sensible way for for anyone, is to take his or hr HGV, because this is the best way of ensuring we are fit (ie capable) to drive our vehicles, and that we are truly legal, and our insurance is therefore valid. If the vehicle in question would require an HGV to drive it, if it were not seen as an MPV, then going the HGV route has another advantage....

 

Part of HGV licencing is regular medicals. it is concidered that seeing as a large vehicle, out of control, is much more lethal than a car or light van out of control, and to minimise the risk of this happening, the drivers of large vehicles have to satisfy the ministry that they are healthy, their eyesight is good, they are not going to suffer a heat attack , stroke, fit, siezure or drop into a coma. Also that hey do not have any physical disabilities that limit their ability to control a vehicle safely

 

Do we think it wise to be driving large, potentially dangerous vehicles without submitting ourselvers to a rigourous medical on a regular basis? I suspect that some people are looking for an exemtion from HGV licencing because they know that they cannot pass a medical, and if that is the case aren't they being highly irresponsible?

Edited by antarmike

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what about a mobile crane built befor 1960 what licence do you need:confused:

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All mobile cranes need HGV, as I understand it. But then you have your reduced speed limit for Engineering Plant applying. And of course a Mobile Crane isn't allowed to tow a trailer.

 

There is an HGV exception for all "engineering plant" with the exeption of Mobile Cranes.

 

What make is the mobile crane.

 

I can delve deeper regarding regs relating to this vehicle, but there are different classes/categories of Mobile Crane, so more info is needed before an answer can be given.

 

Primarily does it meet the requirements for registered use as a mobile crane under the vehicle and Excise registration act 1994?

 

And when it is on the road, is it only proceeding to or from the site of lifting operations or carrying out such operations?

 

And apart from going to a place of repair, it is never used on the road, other than for this purpose?

Edited by antarmike

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Antar Mike, a wellthought out reply from you. Point one, doctors test for fitness to drive HGV. Do drivers of say a Leyland Hippo or anyother large MV driving them on a car licence take a medical to ascertain their fitness. I do not thinkso. Do they have their vehicles ministry tested. no. You use the phrase truly legal, if you comply with the criteria set out in law for a MPV then you are totally legal.I do not go to purley military shows but I do go to shows that have a variety of vehicles and I am often asked about the vehicle I havewith me, ie. what engine, where it was made...I would submit that unlike your finding of the general public I find they like to talk about your pride and joy, even policemen have come up and asked questions of the Bren carrier because both were in the army and drove the much later APC. So I would strongly suggest that on these grounds the criteria can be met.I am not advocating that enyone should break the law,but if the permissions are there, explore how they may apply to your use of a transporter to go to a distant show.Why recoil in horror from a right that is yours

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<snipped>

Part of HGV licencing is regular medicals. it is concidered that seeing as a large vehicle, out of control, is much more lethal than a car or light van out of control, and to minimise the risk of this happening, the drivers of large vehicles have to satisfy the ministry that they are healthy, their eyesight is good, they are not going to suffer a heat attack , stroke, fit, siezure or drop into a coma. Also that hey do not have any physical disabilities that limit their ability to control a vehicle safely

 

Do we think it wise to be driving large, potentially dangerous vehicles without submitting ourselvers to a rigourous medical on a regular basis? I suspect that some people are looking for an exemtion from HGV licencing because they know that they cannot pass a medical, and if that is the case aren't they being highly irresponsible?

 

Last time I spoke to the DVLA and a doctor over this very point they told me the HGV medical is there for the reason that anyone WORKING as a HGV driver (i.e. the HGV license is deemed a vocational license like the PSV) will be on the roads every working day in their schedule doing very high mileage figures. As such the problems you describe are a very real concern.

 

However - for the very limited mileage any one is with a large, slow, heavy & above all, thirsty MV is likely to do in a YEAR it's no more of a problem than if you have a driving license for a car. I certainly could not afford to run more than 40 miles for a day out in the Stalwart even when I had a job... More than that and its low-loader time. I may not do more than 100 to 150 miles a year in the Stalwart compared to around 14,000 in the car. A working HGV driver could do my yearly MV mileage in less than a day!

 

And I'll admit to being biased here as I have temporal lobe epilepsy care of HM Forces and have a full car license till the age of 70. In the Forces I held all three HGV licenses. However I cannot re-take a HGV because there is no such thing as a non-vocational HGV license and there are no plans whatsoever in Gov't circles to introduce such a thing. But I can quite happily wander up and down the motorways, highways and byways at 60 mph in a 3.5 tonne pick up with a 2 tonne caravan hooked on the back..... That would do a hell of a lot more damage than a Stalwart plodding along at 30 -ish flat out.... Comes to that - take a look at how many larger (8 tonne plus) motor homes are being driven on the car license - also high mileage road users.

 

I would sugest that the vast majority, if not every one, here are highly sensible and take more than the usual care and attention when driving a large MV the few miles they do every year and as such is likely to be a better and more considerate road user than a lot of the license holding working drivers.

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Antar Mike, a wellthought out reply from you. Point one, doctors test for fitness to drive HGV. Do drivers of say a Leyland Hippo or anyother large MV driving them on a car licence take a medical to ascertain their fitness. I do not thinkso. Do they have their vehicles ministry tested. no. You use the phrase truly legal, if you comply with the criteria set out in law for a MPV then you are totally legal.I do not go to purley military shows but I do go to shows that have a variety of vehicles and I am often asked about the vehicle I havewith me, ie. what engine, where it was made...I would submit that unlike your finding of the general public I find they like to talk about your pride and joy, even policemen have come up and asked questions of the Bren carrier because both were in the army and drove the much later APC. So I would strongly suggest that on these grounds the criteria can be met.I am not advocating that enyone should break the law,but if the permissions are there, explore how they may apply to your use of a transporter to go to a distant show.Why recoil in horror from a right that is yours

 

It is my understanding that a MPV carries the play equipment, or educational/instructional material. The MPV itself isn't the educational material. I am not so sure that a vehicle that is itself an exhibit, can actually be a MPV. If you had a low-loader to take a MV to a show. The Low-loader would be the MPV and the MV would be the educational/instructional equipment that is carried by it. For this reason I believe that it is highly unlikely that a MV can be viewed as an MPV. The low loader would have to be dedicated to this one task, never carry any general cargo, never carry a MV to any destination other than from show to show, and to a place of storage, never be used for hire and reward etc. It would make ownership of the Low loader very un-economic.

 

The MPV class is typically a bus, that carries play equipment, is kitted out with projectors, whiteboard, computers etc to give training or instrustion, or carries a mobile exhibition.

 

The bus itself is totally unremarkable, and in the case of carrying exhibition material, may actually be a lorry.

 

I know one person who carries police memorabilia around in a coach, and people enter it to view the material. I know another coach that carries model dioramas of battle scenes. These ARE MPV in sense the class was intended to be used.

Edited by antarmike

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Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2864

 

ROAD TRAFFIC

 

The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999

 

 

5) A person who -

 

 

 

  • (a) holds a relevant full licence authorising the driving of vehicles of a class included in category B, other than vehicles in sub-categories B1 or B1 (invalid carriages),

     

    (b) has held that licence for an aggregate period of not less than 2 years, and

     

    © is aged 21 or over,

     

may drive a mobile project vehicle on behalf of a non-commercial body -

 

 

    • (i) to or from the place where the equipment it carries is to be, or has been, used, or the display or exhibition is to be, or has been, mounted, or

       

      (ii) to or from the place where a mechanical defect in the vehicle is to be, or has been, remedied, or

       

      (iii) in such circumstances that by virtue of paragaph 22 of Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 the vehicle is not chargeable with duty in respect of its use on public roads,

       

    unless by that licence he is authorised to drive only vehicles having automatic transmission, in which case he shall be deemed competent to drive only mobile project vehicles having automatic transmission.

     

     

 

 

I would think that if the Vehicle was a MPV it would have to be in a Tax Class as such (in Bold above) as it seems that MPV's are exempt from road duty.. so it should be easy to see if you are complying with the law...

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Last time I spoke to the DVLA and a doctor over this very point they told me the HGV medical is there for the reason that anyone WORKING as a HGV driver (i.e. the HGV license is deemed a vocational license like the PSV) will be on the roads every working day in their schedule doing very high mileage figures. As such the problems you describe are a very real concern.

 

However - for the very limited mileage any one is with a large, slow, heavy & above all, thirsty MV is likely to do in a YEAR it's no more of a problem than if you have a driving license for a car. I certainly could not afford to run more than 40 miles for a day out in the Stalwart even when I had a job... More than that and its low-loader time. I may not do more than 100 to 150 miles a year in the Stalwart compared to around 14,000 in the car. A working HGV driver could do my yearly MV mileage in less than a day!

 

And I'll admit to being biased here as I have temporal lobe epilepsy care of HM Forces and have a full car license till the age of 70. In the Forces I held all three HGV licenses. However I cannot re-take a HGV because there is no such thing as a non-vocational HGV license and there are no plans whatsoever in Gov't circles to introduce such a thing. But I can quite happily wander up and down the motorways, highways and byways at 60 mph in a 3.5 tonne pick up with a 2 tonne caravan hooked on the back..... That would do a hell of a lot more damage than a Stalwart plodding along at 30 -ish flat out.... Comes to that - take a look at how many larger (8 tonne plus) motor homes are being driven on the car license - also high mileage road users.

 

I would sugest that the vast majority, if not every one, here are highly sensible and take more than the usual care and attention when driving a large MV the few miles they do every year and as such is likely to be a better and more considerate road user than a lot of the license holding working drivers.

 

My point is that some people may be trying to find an alternative to passing the HGV medical, and going for MPV vehicle may be for that reason. Are you suggesting that if someone can't pass an HGV medical, that trying to find a way round it by stretching the definition of MPV to more than was intended, and thus gaining permission to drive a MV most of us recognise needs an HGV to drive is a good idea?

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My point is that some people may be trying to find an alternative to passing the HGV medical, and going for MPV vehicle may be for that reason. Are you suggesting that if someone can't pass an HGV medical, that trying to find a way round it by stretching the definition of MPV to more than was intended, and thus gaining permission to drive a MV most of us recognise needs an HGV to drive is a good idea?

I am sorry to keep on, but I think you are missing the point of my original message. The law on MPV is on the statute books, therefor to say that someone who uses it is somehow trying to avoid taking an HGV licence is, sorry to say, and at the expence of annoying you yet again, rubbish. You hav not made mention of the owners of largr MV driving on a car licence and no MOT. How can you rubbish someone maybe appling for an MVP permission on the grounds that they most probly fail and on the other hand be quite happy for others to swan down the road in Hippo size vehicles, loaded up with Beds, sinks and cookers making their insurance nul and void,if an accident occurs to these drivers who pays out any compensation. I know this is a taboo subject but lets face the facts, there are a lot of these type of illegal uses going on.

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The law on MPV is on the statute books

 

 

But unless I've read your posts wrong, are you saying anyone can just call their vehicle a MPV if they think it meets the criteria without registering it as such:confused:

 

From reading this:

 

(iii) in such circumstances that by virtue of paragaph 22 of Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 the vehicle is not chargeable with duty in respect of its use on public roads,

 

it suggests that a MPV is a Tax Class & if so must be registered as such to claim the exemption...

Edited by Marmite!!

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