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Identifying Shermans


Adrian Barrell

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I left M4A6 out as the lack of survivors and combat use made identifying one unlikely.

Agree, but the question came up.

 

Contrary to a recent Sherman book, the British army did not receive any, the pictures all show M4A4s.

Maybe this page is of interest for those interested in the Shermans used by the British:

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/gbdesig.htm

 

H.

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In the book images of war ,Sherman tank , there seems to be one M4A6 on page 122 in a British workshop , it has a different rear engine deck plate (2 pieces) , but not a casted front end . Later in the same book there is a quote that between October 1943 and february 44 75 have been constructed , and some were sent to the UK , US Army declined them .

Were would they have this information from ?

I know they had that special exhaust thing on the back , but never seen any action Shots of the real thing.

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They're not M4A6s, they are all M4A4s. The special exhaust thing is the standard M4A4 air deflector in the stowed position to allow access to the engine doors. All but the very early M4A4s had it.

 

The book you mention is full of errors and while an excellent collection of images, the captions cannot be relied upon. The tank on pg 122 is an M4A4, the radiator cover is nothing like the domed cover on an M4A6 and the decks appear to have a piece of board laid across them.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 5 months later...

Many years ago on the front of an edition of 'After the Battle' was an apparantly quite tidy Sherman pictured still on the side of the road .....(NB: not issue 4 ...thats the one with a Sherman pushed off a road at a skew angle in The Ardenne)......this was a lot later edition and the Sherman appeared to be almost 'parked' neatly alongside a road..

....The mag didn't give much information on the tank in the text unfortunately so whether it had been parked up by local authorities or perhaps the US Army as a exhibit or whether it was still 'in situ' following the war I don't know..

..so...the thing is... it had very obviously much thicker armour on the front/glacis plate....she looked like there was an extra 2" plate on the front of the 'normal' armour.....it had a welded hull and as I recall a bigger main gun than usual... (def not the 75mm short barrel and not a 105mm either..may have been a long barrel 76mm but think it was smoething else ..possibly a 17 pounder ???).......

....the magazine made oblique ref to the idea that it was a 'beefed up' Sherman...was it possibly called a Jumbo?..and the mods may possibly have been done 'in the field'?....(it didn't look as though it had been done in a field workshop though...more of a 'factory' appearance to it I thought).........any ideas what this model was?......

...I think the photo was taken somewhere near to the border of France/Germany?..Saar region maybe?........anyways...I could probably find the magazine in question but it will take a search and a half of mothers loft and gawd knows what lurks in there.......!...and...long shot ....

...but does anyone know if this tank and is she still on the side of the road there or rescued or ??????

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thats grand ...thanks!....are there any like it in captivity in the UK?....got the idea it was relatively rare?.........

and myabe you may know...are the ones on the beach at Biville(?) near Cherbourg being 'rescued' or are they stuck there for the forseeable?........had a look at the youtube of them and I would have thought they were worth a go at?

thanks again!

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I don't think there is a Jumbo in the uk...patton museum has one as does the littlefield collection, although that goes by another name now does it not? Adrian and Steve are the ones to ask.

 

The littlefield Jumbo: http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm

 

Although it is by no means 100% these PDFs are a good guide as to what is preserved where in the world....

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html

Edited by ajmac
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as far as i know the wrecks are still on biville beach you can see pics of them on google earth, just go to that part of france type in biville, zoom in a bit and you'll see the wrecks with the picture boxes, then when you've found them mark them for future reference/recovery:cool2:

i have a lot of waypoints on my google earth.

 

rick

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There are only 6 known surviving Jumbo's around (there are reports about another one but that hasn't been seen for many years), all exempt one in the US. The Jumbo from the Brussels museum is now located at the Heinz barracks in Bastogne.

Almost all the armor has been removed from the museum in Brussels and that part will stay closed until 2013.

At the location where the Jumbo once stood, there is now a strange combination of a M4A4 Firefly hull with a 75mm turret :blush:.

 

Michel

Edited by tichenor
typo
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:cool2:

i have a lot of waypoints on my google earth.

 

rick

hahaha I know what you mean.........the day after my lottery comes in there's a helluva lot of things gonna start appearing in my garden too....gonna be needing a lot bigger 'garden' I'm thinking! :cool2:

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a man can never have too much red wine, too many tanks or too much ammunition

I'll second that!

I see you have a Churchill?....many years ago a company called Jeremy Walker Machinery just off the A40 on the Gloucester side of Oxford had a very rough but complete Churchill sitting on its own equally tatty Mighty Antar & tank transporter....it was their intention to restore both abck about 1992 ish?.....would you know if they did?....

....thought maybe Churchill owners get to know of each other?:)

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  • 2 years later...

I am fortunate to have one of the surviving Jumbo Shermans, it is need of total restoration but has been identified as #77 of the 254 built and carries serial # 50402 and according to Don Moriarty would have had USA registration # 3082999. It is featured on page 139 of Pat Ware's M4 Sherman workshop manual. She is in tough shape but after seeing what Roger Condron has been able to do with #254, I have hope that one day she will roll again. I have simply been aquiring parts for her for about 3 years including a low mile and running GAA,texas stuff 365.jpg all NOS suspension as well as lots of internal and external parts. If anyone has info on the whereabouts of any "Jumbo" specific parts I would really appreciate the assistance.

100_1449.jpg

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
a man can never have too much red wine, too many tanks or too much ammunition

 

I have never seen you drink red wine, it has been Fosters!

 

Ohh and Rick has more than one Churchill up his sleeve....I think he will have a bloody platoon someday!

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How about this one. Well, the undercut says M4 and the large hatches confirm a composite hull, in this case a Firefly or Sherman IC. It is just possible to see the curve to the cast front hull.

 

sherman3.jpg

 

Two frigging turrets, Adrian why do you tease me........These are for a AEC MK III though aren't they? I could use the parts off of them and maybe modify them to make them work or am I just dreaming again........I know they had the same 75mm and Besa, so maybe the mounts and other crap are still in them.. Maybe we need to get a hold of the Belgium museum to see about them, or are these in France? haha

Edited by lssah2025
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]91345[/ATTACH]

 

Two frigging turrets, Adrian why do you tease me........These are for a AEC MK III though aren't they? I could use the parts off of them and maybe modify them to make them work or am I just dreaming again........I know they had the same 75mm and Besa, so maybe the mounts and other crap are still in them.. Maybe we need to get a hold of the Belgium museum to see about them, or are these in France? haha

The tank is removed more then 5 years ago , and gone to a different country , pm me for more details

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