Richard Farrant Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Just out of interest and completely unrelated to matters military vehicle. this is a happy snap of the Sentinel in the sun for the first time just after Christmas. Just under 8 years' work. Very nice work there, what condition was it in before you started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Good work there Jim,i spy a boat any interesting ones there?I agree about the blaster,so many people have used them on L/rovers and the panels end up looking like the wavy line grocers.CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Very nice work there, what condition was it in before you started? Cheers. Not very complete to say the least. New boiler, new cab, new tipping body and tipping gear and rebuilt pretty much everything else. The engine alone has had several thousand man hours sunk into it. There was months of work just to get the cab doors fitted correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Seems to be a bit of space behind the seating portion of the cab ? Interesting shape never seen one of those before , can you list some of its spec's as in year , speed , gears , carry capacity etc. Looks quite sharp well done . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Looks a beauty Jim. Never seen one with the flat front cab before. A friend had an earlier flat bed sentinel and extended the cab to create more room for the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Seems to be a bit of space behind the seating portion of the cab ? Interesting shape never seen one of those before , can you list some of its spec's as in year , speed , gears , carry capacity etc. Looks quite sharp well done . The seats are right at the front - when your hands are on the steering wheel your knuckles almost touch the windscreen. The reason is that the boiler, water tanks and bunkers are all behind you. It was a futile effort to get the front axle loading somewhere near the legal limits. It's a 1937 Sentinel S4T. It is a little more unusual in that it is an end tipper as opposed to the more common three way tipper. 5 ton capacity and was used by the Gas Light and Coke Co to lug coke - hence the very high sides to the tipper body. Being a steamer you don't bother with gears. There is a bottom gear but that is a stump pulling sort of thing and never really used on the road. Speed? Some say they will exceed 50mph but that is (i) rather optimist and (ii) not good for them. It is interesting to compare the Sentinel unit (almost all aluminium) with the Gardner unit in the Pioneer. The Sentinel engine is complete and utter rubbish. Frail, badly made and with a lubrication system which relies more on hope than engineering. The upshot is that a usuable maximum is 35 mph. It is not longer coal fired as they are very sensitive to the quality of the coal the supply of which is becoming more and more problematic. This one now has a 350KW pressure atomising burner with a rather flash PLC control system. Not that you could tell from looking at it. We like to think we've done not a bad job of hiding it all. The best thing about it is that the brake and the throttle pedal are transposed. Not nice at all. Particular when you consider the rather vivid acceleration these things have from a standstill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm surprised it's that early a model. I had assumed it was a later model than my friends old one. His had the boiler in the cab near your left knee. Certainly kept you warm. Is your one still a large chain drive to the back axle? Sentinel continued to sell steam powered wagons into the 1950's I believe, so even though you say the engine was poor, compared with a Gardener diesel, there must have been something about them. Once you've got the pioneer restored you'll be able to do a back to back 1930's road test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thank You for all the details , I had not thought it was any thing but engine powered ie petrol or diesel ! forgot it might be something else and that explains the cab arrangement . How long would it have taken to have been fired up before it was ready to move ? would they have kept them hot all the time back in their day ? How long does it take now with the flash PLC system ? Did they mostly use hydraulic brakes or mechanical or pneumatic originally ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 When they were worked they never really got cold so 30 mins was often enough to get under way. From cold you can usually around 90 mins. With the oil firing it takes about the same time because you want to warm things up gently so it has a two mins on five mins off cycle to start with then keeping the heat on longer as the pressure rises. The difference with the PLC control is that you turn the selector switch to "warm up" and then go to have breakfast. The brakes are steam. You have a conventional brake pedal which acts on a valve under the cab floor. This sends superheated steam to a pair of cylinders mounted on the chassis rails just behind the cab. The push rod acts through a bell crank and long tie rod to a pair of expanding shoes in each rear wheel. A second pair of shoes in each drum operate as a handbrake. There is a system which bleeds exhaust steam through the cylinders when the brakes are not in use so the cylinders stay nice and hot. As long as they are in good condition steam brakes are lovely things and are very controllable. Certainly a lot more controllable than many more modern air brake systems. Of course being a steamer you also have the option of reverse thrust if you run out of brakes. Drive is by shaft to a conventional double reduction axle by Kirkstall. The only difference over a diesel wagon being the enourmous drive shafts they are fitted with. One of the big advantage that steam had was the phenomenal amounts of torque they had from a standstill. No gears, no clutch, just open the throttle and off you go. Very, very quietly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 No pictures (there are only so many pictures you can take of a slightly cleaner Pioneer chassis) but a quick update to show that work is still going on. Hand winch cleaned and pretty much stripped Fuel tank stripped and steamed out ready for repair to the damage around the upper footstep Both those took up most of Saturday and got me soaked. Other things: New st.st float made for the water level indicator in the radiator. The old one had started leaking on the seam and was full of water. We felt it was easier to make a new one rather try mending the old one. The radiator can go together once I've got it together to make the gaskets for it and cleaned all the bolts up. There is a million and one BSF nuts, bolts and shakeproof washers coming soon so we should be able to start bolting a few things together rather than taking things to bits. Speedograph has been told to refurb the speedo. This is costing rather a lot because they don't have the artwork for the mask on file so we are having to pay for that to be done. :shocked: And that is about it. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 It gets smaller. Not much more than an engine, chassis rails, rear axle and the winch drum now. Stripped the winch down and removed the paying on gear and the main gearbox. Much easier to clean it properly. Can't paint the chassis properly with all that stuff in place. Removed the three rope pressure arms so the rollers can be replaced. One of them has a bearing which has failed, the next had siezed some time ago so the roller has a big flat worn on it and third has just been set up badly so it was dragging on the underside of the drum. Needlegunning. More needlegunning. The more you take off the more you see you've missed around fillets and brackets. Less and less green all the time though. Fuel filters have been refurbed. The spindle had picked up in the alloy body so it took a fair amount of careful polishing and lapping the get it right again. All fine now. Put transmission brake drum in lathe to reface it and find three large cracks in it. Rats. It's hardly difficult to make a new one but it's all manhours, isn't it? Brake and clutch pedal removed together with the bracket so we can make new bushes for them. Neate brake mechanism dismantled for repair. Need a new pawl spring and that's about it. Cut one new gasket for radiator bottom header and find that the washers haven't arrived yet so I can't do any more to put that together. Ho hum. Give the core another pressure washing to get as much of the paint off it. Clutch release brearing removed to get a new one. Transmission brake shoes, clutch stop shoe and clutch plate off for relining. Flywheel cleaned up, clutch pressure plate stripped, cleaned and reassembled ready for setting up properly. Feel like we've actually done something this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Well done Jim ! You are not helping my inferiority complex ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Smaller still. Rear towing hook and spring removed, guide roller bracket removed (not easy at all. It is a rather tight fit) and stripped down, air lines removed, unloader valve removed, brake cylinders and reaction valve removed. It should now be possible to clean and paint down the inside of the chassis legs without too much trouble. It really can't get much smaller than it is now. Brake cylinder, reaction valve and unloader valve overhauled - little more than a strip down, clean and paint - God bless Class One rebuilds. Brake and clutch pedals bushed. The only bit which seems to have suffered in the leading rear spring hanger tube. The carden shaft for the winch passes through this and it has been reinforced in a rather crude way. The inside of this tube is clearly bit of a crap trap and it has started to corrode quite badly. Hardly something to worry about and it is easy to deal with once the shaft is out and the end caps have been popped off the hangers. Transmission brake linkages and brackets stripped and painted and all the pins freed off, polished and fitted properly. The chassis is getting somewhere near clean now. Not too much more before it is clean enough to start on the engine overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Jim, Good to hear of progress, but some pictures would be even better! I know you said earlier you like to get stuck in and don't spare time for pictures. You must stop for a brew now and again? Then's the time to take a few snaps! It'd surely be good to look back in a few years time at what you did on all your projects. Heaven forbid you decide to part company with anything in years to come, a picture documented rebuild also helps add value as it proves what was done. Anyway don't let my requests slow you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 You are right. I'm in the process of sorting out some pictures of it. The posts above were more just notes to remind me what's been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 After it being pointed out that it doesn't take five minutes to take some photos here are some. Paying on gear. Cleaned, washed out, stripped and primered A radiator core: Cleaned, stripped as best I could without getting it dipped (got overruled on that one) and awaiting reassembly when the locking washers turn up. Radiator side plate primered and with new blanket clips on it. It goes against the grain slightly knowing this is all going to get a coat of bronze green blown over everything but there you go. Fuel tank cleaned and stripped and waiting for repair. Close up on the repair needed to the fuel tank. I think the soultion here will be a patch repair tigged in with a slightly larger foot step covering the repaired area. If the step is kept in proportion it should look intended. Crack to the transmission brake drum Another crack to the transmission brake drum. These would probably survive but it's off now so we may as well do the job properly and make a new one. This is one of the cast iron rollers on the winch which hold the rope on the drum. This one has got sticky at some point and the rope has worn the roller away. Need a piece of cast iron bar to turn a new one up. The hand winch. It took most of the day to get it this clean and it is still nowhere near. The rest of the hand winch. Still needs needlegunned and wirebrushed. What a faff. The winch frame with the gearbox and paying on gear removed. The tensioner springs on the arms have been removed too. You'll note that the cleaning of the chassis rails hasn't reached there yet. The offside. Not much left on it now. The nearside rear. I'll probably remove the rope guide rollers so the chassis rails can be painted properly and the rear capstands need to come off to strip them but there isn't much more left. Getting cleaner. It's quite easy once everything has been taken off. Rear rope guide bracket stripped, cleaned and ready for needle gunning It's a bit tricky getting a shot from the back. The forge is in the way. Still plenty of work left on the back axle. Incidentally, it would appear that it was treated to a REME class one rebuild so with the exception of the bush on the brake pedal we haven't found anything which has worn out. A selection of bits cleaned, primered and undercoated. The bronze green arrived today so we can start painting things the right colour now. Ignore the pile of soot covered copper pipes. They are for something else. Brake and clutch pedals rebushed Finally, the brake cylinder, reaction valve and unloader. Stripped, cleaned and primered. We are short of the gaiters for the brake cylinder and the reaction valve but we won't be stuck for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Hi Jim Your work is fantastic and its great inspiration. I only wish that I had more time and that my scammell wasnt that far away. Keep up the good work Niels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Great to see the pictures Jim. Looks like you've been very busy. At that rate of progress you will have it out sometime this season by the looks of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 It's only going quickly because the Sentinel is finished but we can't really take it out because the track is still too muddy. As soon as the sun comes out things will slow down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrat Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Great Progress Jim! My reactor valve and brake cylinder need some attention, can you get bits for these? Or are they parts that need made up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Quite a bit of work done already , must be getting close to the reassembly stage , when you start to think Hey this will be drivable again SOON ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Great Progress Jim! My reactor valve and brake cylinder need some attention, can you get bits for these? Or are they parts that need made up? The only things we are short of for both the cylinder and the reaction valve are the gaiters which had perished to nothing. Richard Farrant gave us the lead of Bernie Smith for these parts which we'll try this week. If we can't get anything we'll probably be able to make something which does the job. You can't see very much of them so there are a few things we could try that might not look spot on but will do the job. I wasn't sure whether one of these here was worth a chance on fitting a Pioneer. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLAYTON-DEWANDRE-BRAKE-ACTUATOR_W0QQitemZ310103370908QQihZ021QQcategoryZ36799QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 I said last week that there wasn't much more to take off. The problem is that when you start stripping things down you see more and more bits that you could just pop off to clean and paint them properly. So you start taking more bits off. Guide rollers, brackets, brake cranks, cables... The pile of bits gets bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I said last week that there wasn't much more to take off. The problem is that when you start stripping things down you see more and more bits that you could just pop off to clean and paint them properly. So you start taking more bits off. Guide rollers, brackets, brake cranks, cables... The pile of bits gets bigger. I know EXACTLY what you mean mate ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Oh dear. Turns out there was more to take off. Still a lot more. Can't clean and paint the winch properly while it is still on, can you? Best take that off then strip that right down so you can clean and paint that properly. At least now you'll be able to eat your dinner off the inside of the chassis rails. It also makes it easy removing all the brake linkages (yet more for the pile). I thought the Sentinel's brakes were an abortion but they are nothing compared with the dozens of pins between your foot and the shoes. Take them all apart, clean them, lubricate them and put them back together. Much nicer. The links which bolt to the walking beams are all gunked up with thick waxy grease. Horrid. We'll strip the overload linkage down too. Most of the pins have siezed up on it so we can get that working as it is meant to - yeah like it is going to see 8 tons again. The transmission brake lever and linkage is being removed as I type. The rear guide roller bracket got put back in temporarily last night. Notice the amrks where it has been heated? Something pretty traumatic must have happened to it at somepoint because it had wrenched the top guide roller in all directions. With the intelligent application of a large heating torch and some pipe it is now square again. The rollers were refaced and taped in the lathe so they look all new and shiny again. If everso slightly smaller. The sharp eyed will note that there is less and less green paint on it. On a slightly more positive note large quantities of dark bronze green and sky blue have arrived so all the bits which are sitting in primer can get sprayed the right colour. Proper progress. Anyone fancy betting that the engine will stay in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Apparently the engine is staying in it despite my best efforts. Ho hum. Turns out that a job isn't worth doing properly. Anyway. It seems a little odd that you spend all that time chipping green paint off only to put green paint back on. That opens up the other minor point of disagreement that I say it should be in desert colours but apparently that would look horrible for some reason. Perhaps we don't want it to be seen from the air in England's green and pleasant lands. Hide it from the Orwellian Astras. What's been done? The air compressor was taken to bits for no other reason than to make sure it was properly cleaned. It was a good job we did because it turns out that one of the big ends was now lying dust like in the sump. It would appear that it hadn't been tinned properly before being metalled. Looks like the crank will have to go off for grinding. At least we know what the knocking noise was. The radiator is almost back together. Just need to blow some green on the inside of the side plates and they can go on. The winch has been taken to bits. All the pressure arms are off it so they can be made to work properly. Just need to clean and paint the frame and drum now. Turns out that all the pins on the overload mechanism were siezed up so there needs to be a few new ones made for that. Something that is interesting looking at the winch is that the parts count is stratospheric. Take one pressure arm to pieces and just look how much stuff is covering the bench. Hard to imagine anyone made any profit building these things. There are no longer piles of red things lying around. Most red things are now in green undercoat - the spray booth (ahem) is full of stuff. Sheaves, levers, pedals, prop shafts, track rods, hubs, capstans, brake actuators and valves, bell housings, etc,etc. The pile of dirty bits is getting a lot smaller. The flywheel has its new bearing in now so that can go back on so we can use the timing marks before we take the injection pump off. All we need now is the clutch release bearing to turn up and all that lot can go back together. We also stripped down the fan assembly. It was a bit surprising to see in the manual that it was meant to be stripped down and rebuilt with monotonous regularity. Turns out that there is only a couple of felt seals keeping the grease in. There are a couple of shielded bearings coming so we can do away with the seals altogether. After spending most of the weekend needle gunning and the pressure washing the engine, gearbox, chassis and axles are now (i) clean and (ii) almost completely free of paint. A couple more days tidying and wire brushing should mean we can get some paint on and start reassembling the front axle. Stuff can get bolted back on as it gets finished. Once the chassis is cleaned and primered things should be clean enough to give the engine a little light overhaul. I'll sort some pictures out once there is something green to show you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.