6x4 Militant Why?

[radiomike7]

Radiomike7, you beat me to it with your post 333. What about the Mogal connection ? Does that sound right to you ?

 

No, sounds wrong, it was Mogul:rofl:

 

The Maudsley Mogul was a forward control, the AEC Mogul was a normal control.

[6 X 6]

Guesswork:-D, prototype photo and technical spec. I remember the Mogul but haven't got any photos or spec for it but it could be as Richard suggests that there was input from both companies.

 

Fair enough. I just wondered if you had any further info that would be of interest.

 

Radiomike7, no wonder I failed the 11 plus ! :red:

 

I once bought a reconditioned Militant MK 1 gearbox from a bloke who had expected it to fit his 1950's Mammoth Major. It didn't, it was miles out, which surprised me as well as until then I'd always thought of the Militant as a Mammoth Major with boots on.

[Simon Daymond]

Firstly thanks for posting this list 6x6.

 

I think, in my own mind, I might be getting nearer to answering the question, using the list and considering the opinions expressed by other members;

 

According to the list; 100 HAA 6x4 militants built in first batch, Dec 52 - March 53, but never any subsequent ones? 6x6 not available at this time as first 6x6 vehicles built late 53 (Nov/Dec)

 

After the first 100 HAA, on 6x4 chassis, no more were made until the HAA 6x6 versions from late 53.

 

So is it likely then that the 6x4 were found to be lacking for HAA use, which is why no more were made for that role?

 

 

 

 

Here are the first two pages of a list of chassis numbers I was given by John Harrington of the AEC Society some years ago. I'll try to get in touch with John to ask if there is an updated list and whether he would mind if the entire list was posted on this forum.

 

Looking at this list it would appear that the first 6 X 4 (0859) Militants were produced between Dec 1952 and March 1953.

 

The earliest 6 X 6 (0860) Militants are listed as being built between Dec 1953 and Feb 1954.

 

That both 6 X 4 and 6 X 6 chassis were manufactured concurrently for a number of years suggests that some were intended for certain roles while others were not. Probably, for the reasons outlined by Antarmike in post 13 on this thread.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2009 by Simon Daymond

[6 X 6]

So is it likely then that the 6x4 were found to be lacking for HAA use, which is why no more were made for that role?

 

Simon, I think you're probably right. If you think how your own 6 X 4 might perform on very soft ground as it is, and then throw in the added disadvantage that towing a HAA would add. It makes you wonder why all of this wasn't sorted out at the prototype stage. Unless, of course, the designers envisaged the AA gun being deployed in locations such as dockyards etc where

off road conditions would not likely to have been expected. Even so !

 

I've written a letter to Mr.Harrington asking about both an updated list and also what he thinks about the 6 X 4 vs 6 X 6 gun tractor conundrum. I'll report back when I have a reply.

[antarmike]

I do recollect from my years of working on them whilst in service, that a lot of their parts were marked with Maudsley inspectors stamp. The fact that Maudsley built a lorry named Militant, for the army during WW2 and were part of AEC, think the group was called ACV......could it be that they were a combined effort between AEC and Maudsley?

 

Correct, ACV was the holding company resulting from the 1948 takeover of Maudsley and Crossley by AEC.

 

My 1953 AEC type O853 Matador was recieved into storage at 35MU from Crossley. IT appears that Crossley, not AEC supplied the order.

 

I'll copy and post the record card in a minute.

 

Edited January 16, 2009 by antarmike

[ekawrecker]

My 1953 AEC type O853 Matador was recieved into storage at 35MU from Crossley. IT appears that Crossley, not AEC supplied the order.

 

I'll copy and post the record card in a minute.

 

Do you think that it might have just been bodied by Crossley?

When Crossley was part of ACV, they ended up building just bodies as the chassis for their buses were just 'badge engineered' AEC's.

[antarmike]

I don't think so Make is recorded as Chassis AEC meaning I suspect it was delivered in that form.

 

I suspect that Norman Reeves Ltd fitted the body. They were a specialised vehicle bodier, based at Petersfield Ave, Slough. They were in business until about 1980.

Edited January 16, 2009 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Only some of the Militants were Gun tractors, Were mobile cranes intended for the battle front? Or the 6x4 tanker just posted on the gallery?

 

All the Militant based Coles cranes I worked on were 6x6 and yes they would have to get up the front at times as their main role was bridging and it would be impossible to avoid soft ground if that was where the bridge was to be built.

 

 

 

 

 

Am I reading this list right and there were quite a large number of 6x4 cranes, and all of them built after the 6x6 chassis had been in service for some time (approx two years after)? Chassis numbers 0859 1076 to O859 1127. And O859 1391 to O859 1489.

 

Were these cranes really intended for use in harsh off road conditions?

 

The second batch were ordered over a year after the first, so they had time to assess the first batch in service before placing the order for another relatively large batch, and a 6x6 chassis was available by now.

Edited January 17, 2009 by antarmike

[Richard Farrant]

Am I reading this list right and there were quite a large number of 6x4 cranes, and all of them built after the 6x6 chassis had been in service for some time (approx two years after)? Chassis numbers 0859 1076 to O859 1127.

 

 

 

Mike,

O859 1076 to 1127, which were Army reg no's 53BR76 to 54BR26. These were fitted with KL66 cranes, with a low mounted jib, the cab roof being lower in the centre to accomodate jib stowage. Crane built by K&L Steel Founders and Engineers Ltd. of Letchworth.They are described a general purpose cranes, so may not have been envisaged that they should go cross country.

 

The 6x6 AEC Coles cranes were described as a "Bridging" crane, and they were intended for rougher going.

[antarmike]

As has already been said, "Horses for Courses"

[radiomike7]

My 1953 AEC type O853 Matador was recieved into storage at 35MU from Crossley. IT appears that Crossley, not AEC supplied the order.

 

I'll copy and post the record card in a minute.

 

 

 

Mike, just had a long chat with an old (86) pal of mine who worked at Crossley between 1948 and 1957. He was a bodybuilder and mainly employed on double decker bodies, but also worked on a number of Matadors that came in as running chassis cowls (as opposed to chassis cabs) for the cab and rear bodies to be constructed. He doesn't remember the numbers involved but referred to them as 'a fair old number'

[antarmike]

I personally feel Crossley put the Cab on the AEC built Matador, and Reeves put on the back body, but it may be Crossley had put on the Back body also, and Reeves were either involved in rectification, or were fitting out a bare shell. But that is just supposition.

Edited January 24, 2009 by antarmike