Great War truck Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I have been rather busy recently and not able to look at the forum as much as i would like. However, a recent item on the news got me thinking. It took 18 years, £3 Million of donations to complete the replica A1 Peppercorn loco "Tornado" which is currently being tested for main line excursions. Bearing in mind the whole idea was conceived in a pub and funded by £1.25 a week donations from a lot of people, could we do the same thing with an MV? Assuming that the HMVF club house is the pub, and the members will make £1.25 a week donations (along with everyone else that we can drag in to it), what vehicle should we build from scratch in the soon to be built HMVF workshop (Jack told me he will build it just behind the club house). Obviously a Jeep would be easiest as the parts are all available and we could build it in an afternoon, but i was thinking something a bit more unique. Something where there is either no surviving examples, or the only example is too fragile too move (big hint there as to what i have been thinking of). It would have to be a perfect running replica, exact to the drawings in every way, so we would probably have to make the engine as well. It can be done, so what should we build first? Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Good idea Tim, I reckon it could be done. I have posted a photo of this this fascinating early gun tractor before somewhere, it would be challenging to research but not too big a project and unique. Search for HORSELESS ARTILLERY to download a free video A replica of this needn't take up much room in the workshop (which is going to be HUGE anyway) and would be good fun for members to drive around the clubhouse arena. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I have posted a photo of this this fascinating early gun tractor before somewhere, it would be challenging to research but not too big a project and unique. I note the reins to control it............did it also respond to words like "Whoooaaa"........or "Gideup" :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 My 1:1 scale model is going to be a Lanchester Armoured Car!! Rolls, pah, tuppence a dozen. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 I note the reins to control it............did it also respond to words like "Whoooaaa"........or "Gideup" :-D Interesting that. I wonder how the brakes worked in an emergency stop? Would you feel the urge to pull back on the reigns as hard as you could, thereby breaking them off? Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 My 1:1 scale model is going to be a Lanchester Armoured Car!! Rolls, pah, tuppence a dozen. :-D Quite right. I quite fancy a big Hornsby like this one, only full size: Only one was made and it now (partially) resides on a golf course in Canada after having been tested and rejected by the WD. I understand that a group were talking of making a replica, but have heard nothing of it for a while. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 It's a fallacy that reins stop horses. Think about it for a minute. you are 1 sitting on top, so no contact with the ground. 2 you are pulling aginst the sensitive mouth of half a ton of horse 3 This is going to cause said horse discomfort,4 Horse's tend to run away from things that hurt. The answer, think 'stand still', your body will stop, so will the horse. I have seen some beautiful model traction engines on the circuit, so is possible to make a steamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 (edited) I note the reins to control it............did it also respond to words like "Whoooaaa"........or "Gideup" :-D It is shown in the film pulling up a rise and stopping close to the camera, it rolls back a bit then shudders a bit, tellingly, the shot is cut at this point :sweat: Later it is stationary and the driver is pulling on each reign in turn making the tractor neutral turn either way, the workings must have been a wonder to behold. Not much driver effort seems to have been needed to steer so our female members would enjoy it too. I have the video uploaded to photobucket but then realized that British Pathe don't like folk who post their stuff to the we., Edited November 22, 2008 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Here's the full size Hornsby, built in 1909. It was used to haul coal wagons at a Canadian mining project. What an impressive beast indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 i have seen the hornsby replica out and about at several rallys and wot a sight tracking across the rally feild a full seize one would be a real acheviment . i think the members of hmvf as a group could attempt enything given the skils they posses . everybody could get invold not only with funding but geting hands on aswell takeing parts home to there own garages workshops to compleat a big project could be split down into smaller pecies where every one can do ther bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'd had similar thoughts about a bigger project actually. Given so few examples of WW1 tanks survive, surely it would be possible to build an authentic running replica. Does anyone know if the plans survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 (edited) I like the Mark A Whippet! see it blasting past the other tanks in this clip!! (Bear with it for a couple of minutes till you get to the old footage) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e8CVm9iQGuE Or how about a Mark C Hornet, see it mercilessly attack some trees! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lCWmy_6zAsw&NR=1 Or a MK IX tank going for a swim! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hb4J7CmlhKY&NR=1 Some big sheets of steel, a big bucket of red hot rivets and a hammer.....how hard can it be!:cool2: Edited November 23, 2008 by Adam Elsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well if those can be put on the web so can this, can anyone read Flag semaphore? Click to play film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bystander Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I like the Mark A Whippet! see it blasting past the other tanks in this clip!!(Bear with it for a couple of minutes till you get to the old footage) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e8CVm9iQGuE Of course one could always try to repatriate the APG Whippet (and MkIV) - a disgrace to "preservation", which would need so much work to stabalise them after the damage caused by sitting outside rusting away for so many years, that restoration as a runner must be a possibility. After all a lot of other nations have got thier tanks back from Aberdeen - notably the French WW1 tanks, and of course the Czechs got a tank back only about a month ago. But to go back to the original question, it is funny that the recreation of WW1 tanks should be mentioned. The thought had occurred to me as well that recreating a usable MkV might be a good idea. Out of curiousity I had a good a good look at the open MkIV in Bovington to see what it would involve. As someone who worked in railway preservation for 17 years, it certainly looks well do-able to me, although as one always finds, when one looks at what is involved in detail there is more to it than one first expects. It is certainly much less involved than recreating even a small steam loco from scratch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Of course one could always try to repatriate the APG Whippet (and MkIV) - a disgrace to "preservation", which would need so much work to stabalise them after the damage caused by sitting outside rusting away for so many years... Come on tell us more! i take it APG is Aberdeen Proving Ground in the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Come on tell us more! i take it APG is Aberdeen Proving Ground in the United States. Yes, thats right, it is in the USA. Their website is at: http://www.ordmusfound.org/ They have (had) the most incredible collection of tanks, guns and armour. However, until very recently it was all just left outside. They are now building sheds to put it all into, but funding is a major concern (not just in the UK then). What was scandalous is that a lot of interesting stuff was all scrapped. What also caused a lot of concern is that some rare items (such as the Tiger 1) went overseas on long term loan (100 years for the Tiger) on the promise that it would be restored when it was returned. That Tiger is now being restored by Wheatcroft (so i understand). Anyway, there is lots more unique stuff rotting away. An International disgrace. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I Some big sheets of steel, a big bucket of red hot rivets and a hammer.....how hard can it be!:cool2: You are right. There is nothing really that technically advanced in WW1 tank construction. It is all just big and very heavy. They were built over 90 years ago (in many instances by firms that also made traction engines) so a lot of the complicated problems that you have with new MV's today just wont exist. Firms build replica boilers for traction engines and steam loco's, so the technology for that cant be too far removed from tank construction. Anyway, the Germans built that replica A7V tank in the 1980's, so it has already been done. Admittedly that cost many £Millions, but then again so did Peppercorn. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well if those can be put on the web so can this, can anyone read Flag semaphore?] Not easily from the side, but i think he was saying "Aaarghh, we are all going to die". Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Not easily from the side, but i think he was saying "Aaarghh, we are all going to die". Tim (too) :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 It's a fallacy that reins stop horses. . That explains a lot, especially why you wont get me back on a horse again. When Hannibal took his elephants over the Alps into Italy to fight Rome, the Elephant driver was provided with an emergency stop. It was a wooden spike and a mallet. As the driver sat behind the elephants head you can see how it would work. As Elephants were in short supply, the driver was only allowed to use it if the elephant became spooked and started charging towards Carthiginian troops. A useful piece of trivia for you. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'd had similar thoughts about a bigger project actually. Given so few examples of WW1 tanks survive, surely it would be possible to build an authentic running replica. Does anyone know if the plans survive? Gets my vote too!! And I'm actually a qualified toolmaker - bench and machine tool and the apprenticeship included foundry, forge and patternmaking work - so when do we start???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well, that seems to be the feasability study out of the way. I dont think we should let small things like a lack of funding, equipment, team and a plan get in the way of a good idea, so we should make a start. The question is what should we so first. I quite like the Hornsby, but as it was not actually used by the military, only tested, maybe that one falls outside the scope of our scheme. Any more suggestions anybody? I note that there are no Foster Daimler gun tractors surviving, how do you feel about doing one of those first? Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Don't forget that the locomotive chaps started with a fairly recent loco simply because it was an unrepresented class, not because it was the oldest. Might it not be a mistake to be too ambitious ? I don't believe that there are any of those nice 'nose-high' early Carriers left. How about a Scout Carrier with a Boys rifle and a Bren on an AA pintle ? I bet that Ford's engine plants would fight amongst themselves for the chance to build a flat head V-8 again ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 The question is what should we so first. I quite like the Hornsby, but as it was not actually used by the military, only tested, maybe that one falls outside the scope of our scheme. Any more suggestions anybody? I note that there are no Foster Daimler gun tractors surviving, how do you feel about doing one of those first? Tim (too) I reckon we should go in feet first and start with the MkV - Male for preference if the Mk V was still split between Male & Female variants. I bet that Ford's engine plants would fight amongst themselves for the chance to build a flat head V-8 again ! Don't bet - you'd lose. All Ford's engine plants were fully automated years ago - for them to build a flat-head V8 would run you an easy 6 figure sum for one engine as it would have to be hand built in a tool-room..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Don't bet - you'd lose. All Ford's engine plants were fully automated years ago - for them to build a flat-head V8 would run you an easy 6 figure sum for one engine as it would have to be hand built in a tool-room..... If you were to build a replica Carrier, it would make sense to use any original parts which are available, and a flathead V8 would not be a major problem. With the cost of steel nowadays, I think any project like this is a non starter in material costs alone. Far better to restore existing vehicles, there are still a few crying out to be saved. Nice to dream of something like this though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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