What's the oldest bit of kit still in British Military service?

[john fox]

Ok not still in service but the last Mills grenade was produced 1970, introduced in WW1 of course so 55+ years service, albeit that is the design rather than an individual item

 

individual 55 year old grenade :shake::shake:

[antarmike]

The air in the tyres and the water in the radiator of just about anything??

[AlienFTM]

The Emsdorf Helmet perhaps? Emsdorf was the first ever battle honour to be awarded, to 15th Light Dragoons (though the idea was so well-received that further battle honours were backdated).

 

A 15th Light Dragoons helmet, worn by the regiment in commemoration of the battle, exists to this day. It lived for many years in the Officers' Mess of 15th/19th The Kings Royal Hussars and the Light Dragoons after amalgamation, until one December night it was found in a bush outside the Mess after the officers had been celebrating the anniversary of the battle of Sahagun (q.v.). The Commanding Officer and RSM agreed that the officers were not fit to retain the helmet and it now lives in the Warrant Officers' and Sergeants' Mess, were it gets the reverence due to it.

[trevor pitman]

I think a couple of years ago this was asked by a MP in the House of Commons when refering to a vehicle and the answer was a mobile crane used by the navy

[Phil P]

My Hippo was built in March 1944 and sold from Ruddington in December 1981. In 1957 it had a major overhaul and aquired the cab and chassis from the 2nd Hippo built.

 

WD railway wagons had a long service life. Some warflats built in 1917 were still in use in the early 1970's and fitted with improved brakes. and NOT carrying main battle tanks probably nothing bigger than a 432. There could still be one around on some supply depot. A mate of mine works at a company that has a small three wheeled motorised sit on flat truck, about 1 ton capacity, that came from an MOD surplus sale in 1995 (ish) It appears it was built in 1943 or the US Navy. I'm not sure of the make. It is still used in the maintenance dept., and is commonly known as the 'Loxley Lozenge' from the 'Last of the Summer Wine' and is painted in a home made cammo scheme!

Phil.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

picture:-D

[Bystander]

My Hippo was built in March 1944 and sold from WD railway wagons had a long service life. Some warflats built in 1917 were still in use in the early 1970's and fitted with improved brakes.

Phil.

 

Good point - I thought that the WW1s ones were Rectanks and the WW2 ones were Warflats (c1942 design?), but I may be wrong... Certainly there are still some WW2 Warflats around. Is the ex-LSWR Dining Car of c1907-12 still at Bicester? I had a tour round the military railway there about six years ago in it, one of the saloons still had a few original features. I think that there is/was another at Marchwood.

 

Having thought about it I think that the answer might be the famous wind direction indicator in the Admiralty Boardroom, which one presumes is still useful to their Lordships in ascertaining the direction that the wind is blowing in the vicinty of Whitehall.

[REME 245]

Back in the 1990's I remember seeing WW1 dated railway goods wagons in the scrap yard out-side Andover. I believe these had come out of one of the old ammunition depots being closed down.

 

As someone else has already said, the current pattern of aluminum mess tin was introduced during 1944-45 and war-time dated examples can still be found in the stores. I used to have 1945 dated examples.

[Snapper]

The answer to the question is Prince Charles.

[Phil P]

I think you are right Bystander the WWI versions were probably called something else not Warflats but they did have a long service life. Is there one in preservation I wonder? I keep intending to buy a kit (or kits) of the WW2 Warflats for my WD based model railway. At £16 a kit there won't be that many! To see them in action see the video 'Tanks by Train'

Phil.

[mcspool]

My Hippo was built in March 1944 and sold from Ruddington in December 1981. In 1957 it had a major overhaul and aquired the cab and chassis from the 2nd Hippo built.

Sounds like my original granddad´s hammer: the handle was only chnaged twice and the head three times. . .

 

Seriously: did your truck receive the chassis from the 2nd Hippo built, or did the 2nd Hippo built receive the body from the March 1944 example?

Or is it like many rebuilt military vehicles, a random selection of overhauled parts assembled into a like new, proper functioning vehicle?

 

Hanno

[mcspool]

A guy I know was a contractor of for the UK MoD, where he onze witnessed a yearly contest held within the DLO. The commander of the DLO would ask his people to come up with the oldest part they could find in the MoD´s supply stocks. Reportedly, someone came up with a 1916 Sopwith Camel carburettor! No, this was not in 1928, but somewhere around the turn of the century.

 

Hanno

[Jessie The Jeep]

The RAF's Battle of Britain Memorial Flight are operating a MkII Spitfire which I think was delivered in 1940. It is the oldest flying Spitfire in the World. Probably not the oldest military item still in service, but not bad for 68 years old.

 

As for 'Military Equipment', would a harbour count? How long have Portsmouth etc been used by the Royal Navy?

 

Steve

[ruxy]

I served my apprenticeship at Shildon Railway Works and left in 1970 - there were plenty of Warflat coming in for repair at that time and after.

About mid-1980's the MOD had a new tank unloading facility at a Redmire sidings (Wensleydale). Uncertain about this but they could possibly have run them on their tracks from this sidings across some quarry property to get onto the ranges @ Bellerby Moor and then onto Catterick Garrison.

No great interest at the time but ISTR that they were using some new rail vehicles built at Shildon for these movements but the original Warflat could still have been in operation then.

[Bystander]

I think you are right Bystander the WWI versions were probably called something else not Warflats but they did have a long service life. Is there one in preservation I wonder? I keep intending to buy a kit (or kits) of the WW2 Warflats for my WD based model railway. At £16 a kit there won't be that many! To see them in action see the video 'Tanks by Train'

Phil.

 

Thanks Phil, there was certainly a Rectank at Beverly, a quick search of the web has found spome photos of it: http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1278041.html, where is it now I wonder. As well as the Warflats there were also the Warwells of course, which I believe also dated from WW2.

 

I served my apprenticeship at Shildon Railway Works and left in 1970 - there were plenty of Warflat coming in for repair at that time and after.

About mid-1980's the MOD had a new tank unloading facility at a Redmire sidings (Wensleydale). Uncertain about this but they could possibly have run them on their tracks from this sidings across some quarry property to get onto the ranges @ Bellerby Moor and then onto Catterick Garrison.

No great interest at the time but ISTR that they were using some new rail vehicles built at Shildon for these movements but the original Warflat could still have been in operation then.

 

Thanks very interesting, I believe that there are Warflats (and Warwells) in depot service, certainly I saw several during the trip to Bicester that I mentioned.

[Bystander]

As for 'Military Equipment', would a harbour count? How long have Portsmouth etc been used by the Royal Navy?

 

Steve

 

Thaks Steve the oldest building or structure still in military use is an interesting question. My vote would go to Carlisle Castle.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Bystander
Formatting

[ruxy]

Just Googled on National Rail Museum @ Shildon (just a few miles away but never been).

 

There is a Warflat on exhibit :-

 

 

Seems there is a Warwell in addition.

 

Must get cranked up and go !

[Richard Farrant]

Just Googled on National Rail Museum @ Shildon (just a few miles away but never been).

 

There is a Warflat on exhibit :-

 

 

 

 

 

I am sure that is the wagon with tank that was at Beverley museum.

[ruxy]

My old man was a painter @ Shildon Shops - the glam job looks a bit of over-resto. must get cranked up for a full inspection.

[ruxy]

British Rail wagon photographs by Paul Bartlett

gallery6801.fotopic.net/ - 378k

-----------------------

 

You may have to Google to locate as these library photographs don't like to run.

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p15068839.html

 

MODA95247 PFB WARFLAT diag PF004A

 

Modern Warflat with Saxon loaded .

[chevpol]

I am sure that is the wagon with tank that was at Beverley museum.

 

 

yes it was

 

Mark

[Phil P]

In answer to your question mcspool it appears that it's the bare chassis and cab from the 2nd hippo built every thing else is from March 1944. Mine had the National Service No 70 RE 85. Under all the paint I found it's REME sign with 88 on it and also part of the sign for 79th Armoured Division. I don't know when it received that wether it was in 1944 or later or if it was on the original cab. If it was fitted in 1957 during it's overhaul then it only had a paint over.

 

I believe that the MKII Spit is classed as still being in RAF service and available for combal duty. There was a simulation done about 25 years ago as to which would win in a dogfight between a Phantom and a Spitfire. It was decided that the Spit probably would if it got in the first volley as it was more manouverable as a Phantom on full power would need three counties to turn and come back. Heat seeking missiles ain't so smart picking up a Merlin exhaust!

 

A few of the Warflats were built by Metro Cammell where I was an apprentice. During stock taking in about 1961 we came across a crate with a set of Valentine tank tracks still greased up in it in the stores. The local scrap man had them.

 

Phil.

[Bystander]

I believe that the MKII Spit is classed as still being in RAF service and available for combal duty. There was a simulation done about 25 years ago as to which would win in a dogfight between a Phantom and a Spitfire. It was decided that the Spit probably would if it got in the first volley as it was more manouverable as a Phantom on full power would need three counties to turn and come back. Heat seeking missiles ain't so smart picking up a Merlin exhaust!

 

Phil.

 

There is a story in Price's Spitfire at War about combat tests that were carried out between an EE Lightning and Mk XIX Spit in 1963, in preparation for possibly fighting with the Indonesians, who had Mustangs. As you suggest dog fighting was found to be very dangerous for the Lightning, since the speed differential was so great that slowing down for a decent shot made it vulnerable. The answer found was to attack from underneath and behind in a climb, which made the Lightning almost invulnerable and gave it a chance of getting both a lock with infra red missiles and a good gun shot. If it missed it just went into a vertical climb that the Spit couldn't possibly follow, before zooming back for another go.

[AlienFTM]

There is a story in Price's Spitfire at War about combat tests that were carried out between an EE Lightning and Mk XIX Spit in 1963, in preparation for possibly fighting with the Indonesians, who had Mustangs. As you suggest dog fighting was found to be very dangerous for the Lightning, since the speed differential was so great that slowing down for a decent shot made it vulnerable. The answer found was to attack from underneath and behind in a climb, which made the Lightning almost invulnerable and gave it a chance of getting both a lock with infra red missiles and a good gun shot. If it missed it just went into a vertical climb that the Spit couldn't possibly follow, before zooming back for another go.

 

In contrast with the Falkland Islands air bridge prior to Stanley Airport being upgraded to support the post-war garrison.

 

Hercules was the biggest troop carrier that could land. To get there, it needed to be refuelled by a Hercules tanker both ways.

 

To get far enough to refuel the troop carrier between refuels, the tanker had to be refuelled both ways ... by a Victor.

 

Shame the Victor stall speed was higher than the top speed of the Hercules. So the refuel of the Herc tanker was carried out in a dive to increase both the top speed of the tanker and the stall speed of the tanker until there was an overlap.

 

Hats off.

[Phil P]

Ah the Lightning, Hmmmm. I wanted to join the RAF hoping I might fly one. No chance said the recruiting officer so I didn't join. In 1960 something there was a report of a Lightning being shot down by ground fire.In fact it was rumoured to be a Bedoin Tribesman with with basically a 'Blunderbus'!! Two lightnings flew over his camp and scared the sheep so he took a shot at the third as it approached and the Lightning flew into the cloud of scrap. It was officially recorded as 'Catastrophic engine failure'.

The lightnings were returning from an excercise. That piece came from a member of the ground crew.

 

I have a picture amongst my odds and sods from Luechars News of a Russian tail gunner on a 'Bear' holding up a copy of.... 'Luechars News' Anybody remember the picture. It cuased a bit of a flap as it was the previous months edition.

 

Phil