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Back on the OT-90 again..

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Oh well - another day another headache..

 

First off the paperwork arrived this morning forom Footman James to change the insurance over - and alarm bells went off. The only vehicle mentioned was the Stalwart!! So - rang them up - and it was a cock-up on the printing front. Quote was for all 3 vehicles and should have said so. So - while I had them on the phone I went through tall the payment stuff and now all 3 are insured with them.

 

Then I headed off to Chelmsford to try and get the OT registered and taxed.... My luck ran true to form.... I had to get the new trainee when my ticket number came up didn't I - who had to go and look it all up/ring DVLA head office at Swansea. He came back after about 30 minutes and told me that all DVLA offices now have a memo advising a change in the Law, retrospective to last year, saying that NOTHING over 2.55m can be registered for road use in the UK since last year. Unfortunately - or perhaps typically for the DVLA and it's political masters these days - they never bothered telling any one this change in the law was imminent or even happening.

 

I tried raised the issues about the Army's Challenger 2's or things like Antars, FV432's my own Stalwart - even the 2004 F-50 sitting at home on the drive. All he could say though was the law changed from a certain date, it applied retrospectively until sometime in 2007, and thats what they have to go by. I've been given the phone number for the DFT to appeal against this decision on the basis no one knew anything about it when I bought the vehicle and I've spent $13K inc VAT getting it to comply with UK road requirement which in turn has reduced any chance of hiring it out for film/TV work. Hell - even the police are unaware as I e-mailed both Essex and Kent Police specifically to ask if it could be used on the road and was told by both of them all I needed to do was notify them of the route a few days in advance....

 

Now I'm unsure what to do next - if I ring the DFT and appeal then that scotch's any attempt/trip to try another DVLA office!!

And the insurance certificate I have expires tonight so I can't do a thing until Footman James send out the new ones - it took the post office a week to deliver their last letter and we're away next week so thats another fortnight bites the dust.

 

I really, really do wonder at times whether it's worth trying to be law-abiding in this day & age!!!

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Neil, all I can find on maximum vehicle width on UK roads is about trailers and their towing, there is nothing about a single vehicle. ??

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Unfortunately - or perhaps typically for the DVLA and it's political masters these days - they never bothered telling any one this change in the law was imminent or even happening.

 

 

 

 

 

It's unfortunate, but part of me thinks that a certain MV dealer might have had an inkling about it.

 

 

Whats an F50 by the way?

 

Regards

Richard

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Call me cynical but might this explain the difficuties he had getting to the registration office to sort it all out for you ?

I'd have thought somebody who regularly puts imported vehicles on the roads on behalf of customers would have got the whole process sorted double quick and just presented his customer with the completed documentation as part of the sales service .

Or am I just naive ??

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Neil, all I can find on maximum vehicle width on UK roads is about trailers and their towing, there is nothing about a single vehicle. ??

Yes, can't remeber the exact widths (Opps) but you need either a banksman and or escort. It also brings into question a number of pices of agricultural kit. Ever seen the width of a pea viner, even with the tables off they are wide vehicles. Probably you would need warning marks etc on the back. By the way DVLA can't get half way out of thier own way. Have you have legal cover on your car insurance etc? Use it get a proper opinion.

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No, not cynical just a realist, I was very suspicious when all the different excuses were trotted out, it just didn't ring true. Neil, I feel for you mate, you've been stitched up in my opinion.

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)

Sorry mate me too,kept quite but kept hoping,still am.all the best.

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An unhappy story and maybe should not have happened, I found this just now, not a lot of comfort for you though, found it here,

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1995/Uksi_19953051_en_1.htm

 

A concentration of forum members may be able to dig out some more info, good luck.

EXPLANATORY NOTE

 

(This note is not part of the Regulations)

 

  • These Regulations further amend the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

 

 

 

  • With the exception of a locomotive (not being an agricultural motor vehicle) and a refrigerated vehicle, each of which is already subject to a maximum overall width of 2.75 and 2.6 metres respectively, the maximum overall width of any other motor vehicle is increased from 2.5 metres to 2.55 metres.

 

 

 

  • The same increase in maximum overall width also applies in the case of—
    • (i) a trailer drawn by a motor vehicle having a maximum gross weight exceeding 3500 kg;

     

     

     

    • (ii) an agricultural trailer;

     

     

     

    • (iii) an agricultural trailed appliance;

     

     

     

    • (iv) an off-set combination of an agricultural motor vehicle drawing a wheeled trailer; and

     

     

     

    • (v) an agricultural, horticultural or forestry implement mounted rigidly but not permanently on a wheeled agricultural motor vehicle, agricultural trailer or agricultural trailed appliance.

     

     

     

 

 

 

  • The definition of "overall width" in the Table in regulation 3(2) of the 1986 Regulations is amended so that in calculating the overall width of a vehicle, any guide-wheels fitted to a bus can be disregarded provided that they do not project more than 75 mm beyond the side of the bus.

 

 

 

ISBN 0 11 053685 1

 

Notes:

 

[1] 1988 c. 52. There are amendments to section 41 which are not relevant to this instrument. back

[2] S.I.1986/1078. The relevant amending instruments are S.I.1988/1871 and 1991/2125. back

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that last bit is intresting. The 'Guide wheels' reffered to for so called captive bus lanes. High kerbs that 2 dolly wheels engage and supposedely sterr the bus. unfortunatley when going in to a conventional stop thses wheels can catch the kerb and catapult the bus back into the road!. If you have more than 16 seats including driver, you could try registering the thing as a bus? If nothing else it would confuse the bu***s.

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The 2.55m thing simply cannot be true for every vehicle type. There must be exemptions for 'special types' otherwise how would people like Ainscough register new heavy cranes? A quick peek at their website reveals that some of their 200+tonne wagons are 3m wide. Their fleet must change periodically and you're not telling me that they are going to be limited to 2.55m wide??? Also, what about new heavy haulage tractors? - I know most are based on commercial chassis but the really heavy ones are very wide.

 

Incidentally does this mean there may be problems with collectors who want to register newly-restored Antars, Pacifics etc.? Even the bloomin' WLF is 2.5m wide and that's not even a big truck! What about Mack NOs & NMs, White C666s etc. etc.?

 

I've been trying to find info. on 'special types' (as a vehicle type, NOT taxation status) but am struggling to find anything. Can anyone help?

 

- Mike

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If you have more than 16 seats including driver, you could try registering the thing as a bus? If nothing else it would confuse the bu***s.

Then it would have to be tested as Class 5 (no exemptions from testing, even for steam power), seatbelts required, PSV licence etc. etc. :nono:

 

Amusing idea though :-D

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Can't do anything for the next few days - or until the new insurance certificates arrive via the Post Office. And I'm off on hols to Yorkshire next week for the week.

However - when I get back and assuming I have the insurance certs by then - can any one recommend a DVLA office close enough to East London so that awkward questions like "why have you come here" won't be asked and that has experience of putting things like 432's etc through and(hopefully) doesn't have trainees on the desks???

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The 2.55m thing simply cannot be true for every vehicle type. There must be exemptions for 'special types' otherwise how would people like Ainscough register new heavy cranes? A quick peek at their website reveals that some of their 200+tonne wagons are 3m wide. Their fleet must change periodically and you're not telling me that they are going to be limited to 2.55m wide??? Also, what about new heavy haulage tractors? - I know most are based on commercial chassis but the really heavy ones are very wide.

 

Incidentally does this mean there may be problems with collectors who want to register newly-restored Antars, Pacifics etc.? Even the bloomin' WLF is 2.5m wide and that's not even a big truck! What about Mack NOs & NMs, White C666s etc. etc.?

 

I've been trying to find info. on 'special types' (as a vehicle type, NOT taxation status) but am struggling to find anything. Can anyone help?

 

- Mike

 

Try Special Type General Order.

 

When I bought my Scammell Explorer in 1993 I was told I was lucky to get one straight from disposal with a civillan reg no, as it was too wide to be registered then (2635 wide).Many have been put back on the road since so I can only assume that some slackness was in the system which has now been tightened up,

This may have been the reason 3 derelict Pioneers (2593 wide) were sold on ebay for £5.50 the other day!

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Back in 1994 I had the same problem with my Saladin.

 

Luckily I was able to successfully agrue that as there was no class specifically for armoured cars, it was unfair for them to place my Saladin in a class that they knew due to width restrictions it could not be registered. They were effectivly trying to manipulate the system to ban my vehicle from the road. They recommended that I register it as a locomotive and I attach a copy of the revelant form below.

 

If they have now strengthened the law you may be out of luck. If I had owned a Saracen rather than a Saladin they would have been quite within their rights to class it as a people carrier under which all the relevant classes do not allow wide vehicles. Good luck.

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Back in 1994 I had the same problem with my Saladin.

 

Luckily I was able to successfully agrue that as there was no class specifically for armoured cars, it was unfair for them to place my Saladin in a class that they knew due to width restrictions it could not be registered. They were effectivly trying to manipulate the system to ban my vehicle from the road. They recommended that I register it as a locomotive and I attach a copy of the revelant form below.

 

If they have now strengthened the law you may be out of luck. If I had owned a Saracen rather than a Saladin they would have been quite within their rights to class it as a people carrier under which all the relevant classes do not allow wide vehicles. Good luck.

 

Thanks - that sounds interesting!! How did you go about getting them to certify it as a locomotive to get that certificate issued??

 

This could be a route worth pursueing!! :)

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They came back with that certificate after I wrote a letter of complaint.

 

I am surprised that not more people have commented on this thread because if they have now tighted the law it will effect a lot of future vehicle owners. If confirmed sellers of unregistered vehicles should also be making prospective buyers a where of this change in the law. If you are in one of the vehicle clubs I would recommend taking their advice.

 

If necessary any type of truck caple of towing could still presumably be classed as a locamotive in the 'Vehicle Type' allowing a greater width.

 

This is still hopefully just an over zellous officer in a local office.

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Class it as agriculture like my mates stolly

 

 

Then I think there's a restriction where you can drive them if registered as agricultural & can't see how a Stolly fits in this class anyway:confused:

 

Agricultural machines

 

 

The 'agricultural machine' tax class:

 

  • an agricultural tractor - a tractor used on the public roads solely for the purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture, forestry or activities falling within cutting verges bordering public roads and cutting hedges or trees bordering public roads or bordering verges which border public roads

  • an off road tractor - means a tractor which is not an agricultural tractor and which is designed and constructed primarily for use otherwise than on roads; and incapable by reason of its construction of exceeding a speed limit of 25 miles per hour on the level under its own power

  • agricultural engine - a machine specially designed and or converted to perform an agricultural operation on the land (eg a combine harvester)

  • light agricultural vehicle - means a vehicle which has a revenue weight not exceeding 1,000kg, is designed and constructed so as to seat only the driver, is designed and constructed primarily for use otherwise than on roads, and is used solely for the purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry

  • agricultural lift and loading vehicles – vehicles that are designed for off road use; designed to lift and load; and used solely in agriculture, horticulture or forestry

 

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After the war Willeys jeeps were used extensively on farms too so why could a Stolly not be used there?

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The bit about:

an off road tractor - means a tractor which is not an agricultural tractor and which is designed and constructed primarily for use otherwise than on roads; and incapable by reason of its construction of exceeding a speed limit of 25 miles per hour on the level under its own power

 

Sounds good!!:) Tracked vehicles are designed primarily for use off-road and 25mph top speed sounds reasonable. Not sure I'd want to go much faster in one of these with other road users around. It's only 10 mph slower than the average speed of a Stawart too.

 

Anyways - I had a thought last night :idea: - dangerous I know but.... - and wrote to the MVT to see what they have to say about this.......

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The bit about:

 

 

Sounds good!!:) Tracked vehicles are designed primarily for use off-road and 25mph top speed sounds reasonable. Not sure I'd want to go much faster in one of these with other road users around. It's only 10 mph slower than the average speed of a Stawart too.

 

Anyways - I had a thought last night :idea: - dangerous I know but.... - and wrote to the MVT to see what they have to say about this.......

 

Strictly speaking you're limited to 12mph on tracks anyway as there is no suspension between the solid rubber road wheels and the road surface. The same restriction applies to solid tyred lorries, buses, traction engines etc. (I believe by this logic a Hagglunds should be permitted to go faster as it has pneumatic tyres...?)

 

That said, the OT probably does fit this bill. I don't know about width limits but that big JCB tracked tractor at the Bunker Bash was registered as an agricultural tractor and is well over the 2.55m 'limit'. See this link for the (impressive) spec. of the MT800B: http://www.challenger-ag.com/agco/Challenger/ChallengerUK/TrackedTractors/700800.htm

 

We had a Zil 131 tractor unit with a Russian SAM-2 missile on an artic trailer which had been registered (by a previous owner) as an 'agricultural tractor'. How this or a Stolly ended up in this class is a matter for some conjecture, but we do all know how these things happen... I wouldn't expect to get away with it nowadays and there might be some very awkward questions if there was an accident and it was found that the person registering the vehicle had intentionally misled the inspectorate.

 

- Mike

Edited by TooTallMike

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Contacting MVT or other vehicle-verifying type body seems a good idea. They should know what they are talking about, probably more so than the DVLA!

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