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VCR Act Mk2??????

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But the Government say the Kids should be given toy guns in nursery schools... :coffee2:

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7163741.stm

Toy weapons 'help boys to learn'

 

 

Boys in nursery schools should not be discouraged from playing with toy guns and other weapons, the government says.

In guidance for nurseries in England, the Department for Children, Schools and Families says staff should resist a "natural instinct" to stop such play.

 

It says role playing helps create the right conditions for boys' learning and could help them become more engaged in education in the future.

 

Teachers have condemned the advice, saying toy guns "symbolise aggression".

 

 

The guidance - entitled Confident, Capable and Creative: Supporting Boys' Achievements - says "practitioners" often find boys' chosen type of play "more difficult to understand and value than that of girls".

 

Boys regularly use "images and ideas gleaned from the media" as starting points in play, the advice says, which "may involve characters with special powers or weapons".

 

"Adults can find this type of play particularly challenging and have a natural instinct to stop it," the guidance continues.

 

"This is not necessary as long as practitioners help the boys to understand and respect the rights of other children and to take responsibility for the resources and environment."

 

Fostering these "forms of play" helps to "enhance every aspect of their learning and development", it adds.

 

Better results

 

Boys' underachievement in schools has been a source of concern for teachers and ministers.

 

Girls are more likely to get the benchmark five good GCSEs than boys and more girls do better at A-level.

 

Although noisy for adults such imaginary games are good for their development as well as good fun

 

Beverley Hughes

Children's minister

 

But the National Union of Teachers (NUT) has criticised the government's advice on toy guns.

 

General secretary Steve Sinnott said the problem with toy weapons was that they "symbolise aggression".

 

"The trouble with weapons is that the toy gun is often accompanied by aggression.

 

"The reason why teachers often intervene when kids have toy guns is that the boy is usually being very aggressive."

 

Gender stereotyping

 

Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT teachers' union, said any nursery following the government's advice risked angering parents.

 

"Many parents take the decision that their children won't have toy weapons," she said.

 

 

 

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Pre 95 deacts easy to reactivate.

Yeah right, for those who don't know, Iam an engineer, I have just looked at my pre95 SLR, which has a great lump cut out of the chamber, a slot of about 10" cut into the barrel and filled with weld. Also the working parts are heavily cut about.

 

Perhaps one of these W*nk*rs would like to show me how you reactivate this without it blowing up in your face.

 

Well I said recently,about a power seeking MP looking for the main chance, and we have it.

If you want to be really controlled, forget fascism, BNP etc.

 

Get a good Socialist :whistle:

 

Look at Russia, we will soon have our own NKVD :schocked:

 

Big decision do I sell my deacts along with all the other sheep and basically agree with yet another piece of senseless and useless legislation or are there just for once, a few of us who give these idiots a hearty royal salute.

I am starting to feel backed into a corner, and fed up with being dictated to whilst more unsavory elements of our society enjoy unparalleled levels of freedom.

So I for one will say B*ll*cks legislate some of the weirdos cranks and freeloaders in our society then beat on my door.

 

Now people have to really make their minds up

 

Goat or Sheep??

 

Fed up HF

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Safari swing, I rest my case concerning politicians. I go with the Terry Pratchett idea, as soon as they are elected put them in prison, it saves time and trouble later. :police:

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We do seem to be going towards the Orwellian nightmare in this country :-(

Andy

 

 

I'm not sure Orwell would believe where this country is now . I think we have gone way beyond what he envisioned

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When will they wake up, and realise it is the hand not the gun .

 

Overhaul our prison system, stop listening to the liberal minded pacifists aka Longford etc.

Introduce an element of harshness to the lives of convicted criminals, so they might just think that maybe the crime ain't worth the time.

Do away with parole for good behaviour, if your in prison you should be behaving.

20 years means 20 years

 

At the moment there is not the punishment to suit crime, and I think the vast majority consider prison a joke or interlude.

Oh and by the way I have been to prison :schocked: :schocked:

As a contractor :-D and even the Prison officers despair :-(

You may notice I neither condemn or condone capital punishment, as i can never decide completely, so how could I ask another to do so.

To be honest I feel life an I mean life is a far harder sentence

 

We are I think heading for some hard, troubled and difficult times

 

 

HF

 

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The governement statistics say that they believe (I don't know how they could know) that nearly 10% of all firearm offences are commited by reactived weapons. Am I the only one wondering why they don't go into details of the other over 90% of offences?

 

I have been informed :whistle: that fully automatic eastern block weapons are cheaper here on the black market than legally bought deactivated weapons. Why isn't there a move to do something about these? Is it because it would be too expensive to shore up our leaky borders to prevent the flood of illegal weapons coming into this country? :dunno:

 

 

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So they want to outlaw violence amongst young people.....

 

On Saturday, a teenager was stabbed to death, and two others injured, after an argument at a flat in Erith, south-east London.

 

Well I am truly stumped. I have been thinking about this for the past few minutes, and I still can't work out how you can stab someone to death with a deactivated gun. A kitchen knife, yes. A screw driver, yes. A broken bottle, yes. A deactivated gun? Surely this is no more harmful than a brick, and I can't see how anyone can be stabbed with a brick?

 

Roll on the future, when we will have to eat with plastic knives, we won't be allowed to use screwdrivers without a permit and glass bottles will be outlawed. We'll also have to walk around in plastic bubbles, with air filtration, incase we catch bird flu or some other illness. No point going to a hospital, you'll come out more sick than you go in. Can't drive a car since cars kill tress and people....

 

Where does it stop?

 

Chris

 

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Chris, the palstic knives bit was tried at airports. I was working at Gatwick security at the time. The damages for injuries caused by plastic cutlery breacking nearly bankrupted some of the franchises. :dunno:

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Ok, we'll just eat with our hands?

 

Ah HA! but you might strangle someone :shake: or hit someone over the head with a plate or use the brocken edge of the plate.................. :died:

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I agree with you all, these morons deserve to have the urine extracted morning, noon and night.

But they believe in their purpose, and we do not matter, or warrant any real consideration.

 

I can already hear the answer when we protest, " But if the banning of deactivated weapons saves a life how can you protest against this?"

 

If the law was strict enough these criminals would think twice.

 

More importantly, email write, call your local member for parliament. If time your other political candidates, nothing like a bit of poor innocent public for the opposition to champion

Better still go to the horses mouth Jacqui Smith? If they come under a concerted barrage, they will listen,as this is votes nothing more nothing less.

Reminding them of history law abiding citizens means ZILCH

 

Please please sit down and use 1/2 an hour very productively

 

 

This is happening now not next month or year

 

 

Hardyferret

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Banning De-acts will not save a single life. All the crooks & terrorists will do is go to Eastern Europe. Whilst nosing about for parts, WP equivalent of CES in Europe, etc I was offered the Heavy MG for the OT's turret for £250 and eight AK's for £150 each. All live........

 

The only reason I can see for Ms Smiths outburst is that because De-act owners are law-abiding citizens they are easy targets for the corrupt refuse that passes for politicians these days

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Spot on Neil, in the back of Istanbul behind the bazaar, i was in a very dubious gun shop, being offered an AK an older one with the lovely orangey red chipboard furniture :|:|

No ticket, no questions, just sterling :schocked: and a big box rounds.

When I declined I was asked did I want something bigger :shake: :shake:.

At this point I made my farewells quickly :whistle: And that is how easy it is and I would have had change out of £100 :shake: :schocked: :shake:

Yes once again easy option target the innocent law abiding citizen, what a power seeking uninformed bitch.

So read my previous post and get weaving with the letters etc :-D :-D :whistle:

 

HF

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De acts/replica's etc are not the problem. It's the criminal justice system that's the problem, there is no detterent.

If the law stated that driving over 30mph meant 25 yrs in prison I would have a speed limiter fitted to my car and never break the speed limit, simple.

What happened to the 5yrs minnimum sentance for having a gun?, I live and work in london and cannot remember the last time someone got 5 yrs for carrying a gun.

Whilst I agree that the judicial system must be independant of goverment, when the courts are not doing thier job properly, the goverment MUST step in.

I don't blame the police, thier hands are tied, I blame the courts, and goverment.

Just as a foot note, we all know who's shooting who, but political correctness won't allow the police to do anything about it.

 

 

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Might poke yourself in the eye if your fingernail was more than the legal limit of 0.75mm across 2/3 of the available area, and if you haven't done a risk assessment on the splashback effects of hot soup, well, on your own head be it!

 

But yes, I saw the articles in the news and thought, here we go again. Time to saddle up and start getting involved.

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Home Secretary announces Ban on Deacs on Sky News this morning :angry: she's making a statement within the next hour...

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On the BBC

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7180712.stm

 

This... is it a get out bit for us, will it mean that we have to pay for a license?

 

I will shortly consult on a way forward to allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms while giving the police and other enforcement agencies the powers they need to get black market firearms of our streets

 

Deacs aren't blackmarket weapons all up and above board and perfectly legal

 

Andy

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From the BBC news web site - highlights added by me:

 

Converted gun ban 'by year end'

 

The 11-year-old was shot as he walked home from football practice

The home secretary has unveiled plans to ban deactivated guns, on a visit to the Liverpool suburb where schoolboy Rhys Jones was murdered.

Jacqui Smith said she wanted to protect the public and allow police to remove black market firearms from the streets.

 

She is also expected to meet the parents of 11-year-old Rhys Jones, who was shot dead on 22 August while returning home from football practice.

 

Gangs and gun crime, both prevalent in the area, will be top of the agenda.

 

Ms Smith said: "I want to balance protecting the public with the rights of responsible collectors of deactivated firearms.

 

"I will shortly consult on a way forward to allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms while giving the police and other enforcement agencies the powers they need to get black market firearms of our streets.

 

"Tackling gun crime is key to making people feel safer and more secure in their communities. We already have the tightest controls in Europe but there is more we can do to remove the threat of gun crime."

 

Widely available

 

Typically, a deactivated gun has its barrel sawn down the middle and a metal rod is then welded inside to make it incapable of discharging a bullet.

 

The breech block - which contains the mechanism to actually fire the bullet - is ground down so there is no firing pin.

 

The proposal to make converted or deactivated guns illegal comes after a huge increase in the amount of model and pellet guns to have been converted to fire live ammunition.

 

The police have said there are an estimated 120,000 in circulation in the UK.

 

Government ministers look set to reclassify them as replica guns, which are already banned. The ruling would focus on deactivated guns made before 1995 when tough restrictions came in.

 

Rhys' parents, Stephen Jones, 44, and Melanie Jones, 41, are likely to hold a private meeting with the home secretary.

 

Rhys was shot in the neck and despite a number of arrests nobody has been charged with the schoolboy's murder.

 

His parents have repeatedly called for the gunman to hand himself in.

 

 

 

MOD EDIT!! REMARK REMOVED This is a typical politicians cheap shot - using the motive death of a child to get public support for a ban on something the public woiuldn't normally support.

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OK it's official now & they are going to take some sort of action over deacs, please remember that this forum is not a Platform for Personal Political views, please use this thread to discuss what can be done & the best course of action before we go off half-cocked.. plese don't rush to post a online petition until we now exactly what the ban will involve.

 

Any political comments will be removed without notice or discussion by the moderators

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Looks like they will be concentrating on pre 95 (old Spec) deacs...

 

 

 

1. The Home Office will shortly consult on proposals to clamp down on the availability to criminals of firearms deactivated prior to 1995. We will be looking at the implications for responsible collectors including museums before legislating.

 

 

Thursday 10 January 2008 09:38

Home Office (National)

 

Home Secretary to ban deactivated firearms

 

 

Strict new controls on firearms that have been deactivated could be introduced before the end of the year, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith announced today during a visit to Merseyside as part of the Tackling Gangs Action Programme.

 

The police estimate some 120,000 of these deactivated firearms are in circulation. Although many are owned by genuine responsible collectors, the police have raised concerns that many are being used in crime. These figures relate almost entirely to weapons deactivated before 1995 when tough new standards were introduced for the deactivation of live weapons so they are far harder to reactivate.

 

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said:

 

"Gun crime though thankfully rare is a problem in some areas of the country. I want to balance protecting the public with the rights of responsible collectors of deactivated firearms. I will shortly consult on a way forward to allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms while giving the police and other enforcement agencies the powers they need to get black market firearms off our streets.

 

"Tackling gun crime is key to making people feel safer and more secure in their communities. We already have the tightest controls in Europe but there is more we can do to remove the threat of gun crime.

 

"Before 1995 the standards for deactivating guns were less stringent than those which currently apply. The police tell me these pre-1995 weapons are turning up more and more in gun related crime and I want to address these concerns to effectively eliminate the threat from our streets.

 

"I have also asked the Serious Organised Crime Agency to prioritise gun crime to ensure we are doing all we can to target the supply of guns, generate fresh intelligence and reduce the use of guns amongst serious organised criminals."

 

Also today, Merseyside police conducted a series of dawn drug and gang related raids in North Liverpool. The Home Secretary met Detective Chief Inspector Steve Moore, the Merseyside police lead on gun crime, for a full de-brief on the day of action in the city. The Home Secretary also met Detective Superintendent Stephen Brougham from the Witness Assistance Unit to discuss their provisions for witness protection to encourage witnesses to come forward.

 

The Home Secretary went on to visit the Norris Green and Croxteth areas of Merseyside where she met young people, local residents, police and staff working in the Alt Valley Community Trust.

 

The Home Secretary added:

 

"Organisations like the Croxteth 'Communiversity' skills centre are doing a fantastic job to help vulnerable young people turn their lives around, equipping them with skills and qualifications for the future and steering them away from crime and disorder."

 

She then visited Croxteth Community primary school to meet the children to talk to them about how they are affected by gang related crime and hear how the police are working with them and their parents to address their concerns and to try to prevent them becoming involved in gang activity.

 

Chief Constable of Merseyside police Bernard Hogan-Howe said:

 

"I welcome the Home Secretary's support in the fight against gun crime. Introducing stricter controls on the possession of deactivated weapons makes the law fit today's challenges. Giving the Serious Organised Crime Agency a priority to help in this fight is essential.

 

"We have achieved a great deal in Merseyside already - but around the country we need to take guns out of the hands of criminals."

 

Concluding her trip the Home Secretary travelled to Bebington in the Wirral, where she met the Area Commander Chief Superintendent Jon Ward and members of Wirral's Joint Community Safety Team. After visiting the One Stop Shop in Bebington Village the Home Secretary boarded the Borough's Respect Bus to hear more from the team about how they are working together to tackle anti-social behaviour.

 

NOTES TO EDITORS

 

1. The Home Office will shortly consult on proposals to clamp down on the availability to criminals of firearms deactivated prior to 1995. We will be looking at the implications for responsible collectors including museums before legislating.

 

 

2. The Tackling Gangs Action Programme was established on 9 September 2007 by the Government to focus renewed action to tackle gun crime and serious violence in Liverpool, Birmingham, Greater Manchester and London. These areas have been identified by the police as suffering disproportionately from problems with criminal gangs which can be involved in gun crime and which present the greatest challenges. These hotspots account for over half of all firearms offences in England and Wales.

 

3. The Government provides £30 million per year to fund the charity Victim Support and is providing an extra £5.6 million of funding in 2007/08.

 

4. HMRC have also agreed to make tackling the supply of guns a priority - for the first time, generating fresh intelligence on gun supply; prioritising trafficking cases and using their expert explosive experts to focus specifically on this problem.

 

5. The Alt Valley Community Trust 'Communiversity' was established in 1998 and offers skills training to young people and other residents within the local community. Further information can be found at http://www.communiversity.co.uk/

 

6. The National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) will be launched nationally on 1 April 2008. NABIS will provide a national database via three national hubs (London, Birmingham and Manchester) for all recovered firearms and ballistic material such as complete rounds of ammunition, cartridge cases and projectiles. Crucially, the database will also link those ballistics items to tactical intelligence recorded by Police forces and other UK law enforcement agencies. These services have never previously been available under any previous intelligence system provided by any agency. NABIS will be a world leader. Further information can be found at http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/ballistics/index-temp.asp.

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Now that we know that something will be being done to remove pre 95 deacs from circulation / bring pre 95 deacs up to 'new' government specs should we as a movement at some point approach the authority's with the suggestions that only individuals who have a licence should be able to own a deac. I know that sounds naive but sometimes you have to go in with positive suggestion just to get a result. If we don't get in early enough we all know what happened with VCR Mk 1. Getting in at the beginning is the key to a good solution / outcome for this movement.

 

Having said that

If were not careful we won't even be able to hold r hand up in the air and mime the action of a gun being fired cowboys and Indians style.

 

Pathetic

 

Andy

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Now that we know that something will be being done to remove pre 95 deacs from circulation / bring pre 95 deacs up to 'new' government specs should we as a movement at some point approach the authority's with the suggestions that only individuals who have a licence should be able to own a deac. Andy

 

 

No as there are very few MV owners who have FAC's & would leave them out...

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I was very impressed to see the SKY News expert, he reactivated an UZI in "seconds". I wonder if he could fix that Maudslay Kegresse in seconds too? We could rent him out for an instant vehicle repairs service

 

Hold on BBC, i am coming back to you.

 

Tim (too)

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I was very impressed to see the SKY News expert, he reactivated an UZI in "seconds". I wonder if he could fix that Maudslay Kegresse in seconds too? We could rent him out for an instant vehicle repairs service

 

Hold on BBC, i am coming back to you.

 

Tim (too)

 

 

 

Hmmmm... yes... he was an armourer with a load of new parts... he didn't reactivate it he rebuilt it... trouble is Joe Public believe it... :angry:

 

Maybe they should ban the armourers as they seem to be the one's who get hold of the parts & rebuild them :whistle:

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