The MOT Question...

[thedawnpatrol]

The Whole 'MoT Exemption' issue is very misleading, I have a 15cwt Morris C8 which I was led to believe was MoT Exempt until I went to tax it, only to be told at the post Office 'that no road going vehicle is mot exempt'!

 

I know this is the wrong forum, but what about a list of MV's that would be exempt ?

could someone do this?

 

Jules

[Marmite!!]

, only to be told at the post Office 'that no road going vehicle is mot exempt'!

 

 

Jules

 

You've been given duff info there...

 

I know this is the wrong forum, but what about a list of MV's that would be exempt ?

could someone do this?

 

We can only give peoples opinions on here, everyone has a different interpretation of the Acts. some read them & make them fit there own personal circumstances.... as shown here for example

 

http://www.hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=38&topic=6795.msg65870#msg65870

 

if we were to publish a list & someone was found to be in breach of the law due to wrong info in such a list it would leave HMVF wide open to legal action...

 

If in doubt contact the DVLA or VOSA & get a reply in writing.

[Tony B]

The MOT regulations and any exemptions are a real mare's nest. Even if you ask DVLA you can get diffrent answers on diffrent days. :dunno: the important thing is on any test certificate 'AT THE TIME OF EXAMINATION' to beat the drum it is vital all our vehicles are maintained to standards EXCEEDING MOT minimums at all times. Its the 'CONSTRUCTION AND USE' regulations are the important ones. I got caught on the 101, I was told by our local DVLA office that I did not need an MOT and they gave me the tax disc. Following year renewal had MOT required, when I queried this with the same office they said yes of course it would always need one. I pointed out the year before it hadn't they got very frothy demanding who had issued the tax disc. I showed them, the room went awfully still. As a matter of clarity a vehicle registered as an ambulance, requires only a class 4 (Car) MOT REGARDELESS of weight. You must be able to convince DVLA that the vehicle is equipped for the treatment or transport of casualties.

[ian2b]

The Whole 'MoT Exemption' issue is very misleading, I have a 15cwt Morris C8 which I was led to believe was MoT Exempt until I went to tax it, only to be told at the post Office 'that no road going vehicle is mot exempt'!

 

I know this is the wrong forum, but what about a list of MV's that would be exempt ?

could someone do this?

 

Jules

 

 

My understanding is that if you morris is over 3500kg laden weight or (gross vehicle weight) and built before 1st Jan 1960 then it would be MOT excempt.

 

This is from the back page of the V112G

 

no 30. Motor vehicles first used before 1st January 1960, used unladen and not

drawing a laden trailer, and trailers manufactured before 1st January 1960

and used unladen.

For the purposes of this paragraph any determination as to when a motor

vehicle is first used shall be made as provided in regulation 3(3) of the

Construction and Use Regulations. Motor vehicles constructed, and not

merely adapted, for the purpose.

 

What is the gross vehicle weight of a Morris C8 ?

[john wheatley (R.I.P.)]

Hi Guys,

I think we've paddled through this swamp before, according to my book of words the Morris 15cwt.goes 2 tons 17 cwt. 2qtrs. In the log book it says validation character L. Body type. Not Recorded. Every year I trundle down to the post office and get my tax disc with no MOT and I have no probs. and say "thank you very much" and trundle off again. I think a lot depends on what was said when the vehicle was first declared years ago when fewer in depth questions were asked.

As none of us are boy racers and with a braking distance of "HOW MUCH!" coupled with the fact that we all keep our vehicles as sound as we possibly can 'cause replacement bits are hard to find if we break any, then the chances are we are above any test that could be carried out.

Regards,

John. :-)

[john fox]

then the chances are we are above any test that could be carried out.

Regards,

John. :-)

 

 

John

Whilst this topic has been done to death, the fact remains that a Morris C8 is not exempt under clause 30 of the V112G form because it is not over the specified weight.

 

Whilst your assertion about maintenance standards is of course true, you are nonetheless committing an offence because your insurance is invalid since you do not have a valid MOT exemption claim. You might not have an accident because of a mechanical fault, but if someone else causes an accident in which you are involved, then your insurance position could be questioned by some smartxxxx company not wanting to pay out.

 

As Lee says no one, including the DVLA or VOSA, is prepared to give a definitive answer for fear of litigation. If you maintain the vehicle correctly, paying out £40 - £50 for a test is irritating but puts you beyond the law in one sense.

 

General advice to all (not to anyone person on this forum) - drive responsibly

[Marmite!!]

That's the problem with the V112G... anyone can take it in to any licencing post office & they are obliged to accept it in lieu of an MOT... the Post Office do not have to confirm your vehicle is eligible for exemption.. it is you who has to sign the declaration... it may be different at a DVLA Licencing office as they should be a bit more on the ball & question anything that is dubious...

As well a getting done for no MOT I would suspect if you've used a V112G when you are not entitled to some element of fraud could be involved...

As John (00EC25) said... if in doubt get an MOT

 

[Rick W]

The age of the vehicle means it is exempt on most of the requirements for an MOT anyway. For example it doesnt need seatbelts. In effect it will be a road safety check because of its age. Im MOT'ing our Morris, just to make sure all the brakes etc work ok and secondly because I own an MOT garage!!

[R Cubed]

My understanding is that if you morris is over 3500kg laden (gross vehicle weight with load) and built before 1st Jan 1960 then it would be MOT excempt.

 

This is from the back page of the V112G

 

no 30. Motor vehicles first used before 1st January 1960, used unladen and not

drawing a laden trailer, and trailers manufactured before 1st January 1960

and used unladen.

For the purposes of this paragraph any determination as to when a motor

vehicle is first used shall be made as provided in regulation 3(3) of the

Construction and Use Regulations. Motor vehicles constructed, and not

merely adapted, for the purpose.

 

What is the gross vehicle weight of a Morris C8 ?

 

 

I think you have it a bit wrong with reference to the weight, if it is over 3500 Kg un ladened then you are entitled to this "no MOT" thing. It has nothing to do with a load, it is just the bare vehicle.

[Richard Farrant]

I think you have it a bit wrong with reference to the weight, if it is over 3500 Kg un ladened then you are entitled to this "no MOT" thing. It has nothing to do with a load, it is just the bare vehicle.

 

 

 

Sorry, I have to correct you here. It is 3500 kgs design GVW, that means the unladen weight of vehicle, plus the carrying capacity, which in the case of a Morris C8, is 0.75 tons. On heavier vehicles where the unladen weight is over 3500 kgs, there carrying capacity is immaterial, like my QL which is just a touch under 4 tons. I have been going through the V112G procedure now for 19 years so do know a little bit about it, also for other heavier vehicles under my care. The Post office in the earlier days were "policing" this and I have had to quote chapter and verse to them on occasions, a Sub PO rang DVLA to check and came back full of apologies and I have also seen them going through a massive folder of info before concceding that I was right.

 

Richard

[Richard Farrant]

The age of the vehicle means it is exempt on most of the requirements for an MOT anyway. For example it doesnt need seatbelts. In effect it will be a road safety check because of its age. Im MOT'ing our Morris, just to make sure all the brakes etc work ok and secondly because I own an MOT garage!!

 

 

Rick,

 

Are you able to do Class 7 MoT tests?

 

Richard

[R Cubed]

 

Sorry, I have to correct you here. It is 3500 kgs design GVW, that means the unladen weight of vehicle, plus the carrying capacity, which in the case of a Morris C8, is 0.75 tons. On heavier vehicles where the unladen weight is over 3500 kgs, there carrying capacity is immaterial, like my QL which is just a touch under 4 tons. I have been going through the V112G procedure now for 19 years so do know a little bit about it, also for other heavier vehicles under my care. The Post office in the earlier days were "policing" this and I have had to quote chapter and verse to them on occasions, a Sub PO rang DVLA to check and came back full of apologies and I have also seen them going through a massive folder of info before concceding that I was right.

 

Richard

 

 

Hmmmmm I dont want to argue, but as far as I was aware, if the said vehicle is loaded then an MOT / Plating is required ? that is why to get the exemption of an MOT it was stated as a vehicle over 3500 Kg un ladeded because it should not be loaded ??

 

Just my thought and what I have been told by others, I could be wrong and it does happen :-D :-D :-D

[Rick W]

Rick,

 

Are you able to do Class 7 MoT tests?

 

Richard

 

No, we do up to 3.5T. You have me wondering now Mr Farrant....

[LeeEnfield]

 

Sorry, I have to correct you here. It is 3500 kgs design GVW, that means the unladen weight of vehicle, plus the carrying capacity, which in the case of a Morris C8, is 0.75 tons. On heavier vehicles where the unladen weight is over 3500 kgs, there carrying capacity is immaterial, like my QL which is just a touch under 4 tons. I have been going through the V112G procedure now for 19 years so do know a little bit about it, also for other heavier vehicles under my care. The Post office in the earlier days were "policing" this and I have had to quote chapter and verse to them on occasions, a Sub PO rang DVLA to check and came back full of apologies and I have also seen them going through a massive folder of info before concceding that I was right.

 

Richard

 

 

So, Richard,.......in your understanding, would my MW be exempt ??

(just wondering,................ ;-))

 

Andy

[Richard Farrant]

Hmmmmm I dont want to argue, but as far as I was aware, if the said vehicle is loaded then an MOT / Plating is required ? that is why to get the exemption of an MOT it was stated as a vehicle over 3500 Kg un ladeded because it should not be loaded ??

 

Just my thought and what I have been told by others, I could be wrong and it does happen :-D :-D :-D

 

 

To put it plainly, Gross Vehicle Weight means Unladen weight + carrying capacity.

 

The confusion here, is that the vehicle should not be used laden, to stop people using them for transport.

 

Richard

[Richard Farrant]

So, Richard,.......in your understanding, would my MW be exempt ??

(just wondering,................ ;-))

 

 

 

Andy,

 

I used to look after a MW for a customer and take it for its annual MoT test. The weight was written in the log book (V5) and with the added 15 cwt, the Gross weight was a tad under 3500kgs, so it had to have a Class 7 MoT. These tests are not normally done by a lot of garages, there were only 2 in Ashford at the time, one being the waste disposal contractor for the local council. The criteria for this test is that it is a Goods type of vehicle with GVW between 3001 kgs to 3500kgs.

 

Richard

[fv1609]

the vehicle should not be used laden, to stop people using them for transport. Richard

 

This is the reason why DVLA will not endorse your vehicle as being permanently MOT exempt. On the occasions I have had a vehicle inspected I have asked for exemption. I was told to apply each year because its use may change particularly if I sold the vehicle it might get used to carry goods & cease to be exempt.

[LeeEnfield]

Andy,

 

I used to look after a MW for a customer and take it for its annual MoT test. The weight was written in the log book (V5) and with the added 15 cwt, the Gross weight was a tad under 3500kgs, so it had to have a Class 7 MoT. These tests are not normally done by a lot of garages, there were only 2 in Ashford at the time, one being the waste disposal contractor for the local council. The criteria for this test is that it is a Goods type of vehicle with GVW between 3001 kgs to 3500kgs.

 

Richard

 

 

Cheers for that, Richard.

MW is MOT'd ...........but through out the year, have had folks, inc those who own MW's, :whistle: saying they don't need to be done;............

I was also told, and I havn't checked, that if details are down as MWR, which mine is/was......it does make it over weight;

Meself,............ :dunno:

[Tony B]

If you have the bit of paper, it has been checked on gear most of us don't have. Really for £50 it is worth it if the emissions let you tune it to save a couple of gallons of fuel its paid for itself. :dunno:

[Phil P]

I have discussed this at some length with a vehicle examiner at an HGV testing station. The vehicle has to be manufactured before 1st January 1960 and be over 3500kg GVW. WC51 Dodges just pass (Once described as close as having wet or dry canvas!) but WC54 ambulances DONT. They are not goods vehicles and so do not qualify. However the MOT test for historic vehicles is basically a certificate of fitness to be on the road. Tapley meter for the brakes, tyres legal, lights and horn work, steering steers etc. Emmissions are No visible or excess smoke. No dangerous parts or bits hanging off. The examiner said "The test is so basic if it doesn't pass it should not be on the road anyway.Take it to garage that has somebody who knows vintage or historic vehicles and knows what he is doing. Half the kid's doing MOT's don't apply common scence and don't read the MOT manual that explains it all." As for the Morris weigh it fueled and with tools normaly carried and add 750kg. If it's above 3500kg and manufactured (Not registered) before 1-01-1960 then it doesn't require an MOT. That is what the testing station said and that is in the MOT tester manual. Every Post Office has an 'MOT know all', I took 2 V112g's in to a Post Office and the 'Blue Rinse' behind the counter told me that they were not official documents and I had made them up myself. When I tried to explain I got "Counter number...." from the resident robot. I demanded to see the Post Master who eventualy came to see me. He disapeared and came back with a huge manual with a specimen of a V112G. She muttered something to him and he said, "You have to go to the DVLC office in Birmingham for a tax disc, Post Office's can't issue tax discs if it's MOT exempt." He wasn't happy when I called him a moron! A one mile drive to another Post Office and I was greeted with, "This is the third one of these I've had today!" A few minutes later I had two tax discs. You can renew on line even when it's free tax and exempted testing. I prefer the blonde at the local Post Office.

 

Keep your eyes peeled for the 'Certificate of Proffesional Competance' that could make all preserved goods vehicles over 3500kg worthless ornaments. I believe the FBHVC is monitoring it.

[Tony B]

As far as the CPCor Completly Pointless C*** is concerned. I went into the training school this moprniong and got the D.S.A., Driving Standards Agency (For those outside off our green & pleasant land, in English P Parlerence. Agency means- The tresuary give a few quid to get started, anymore we have to screw out of people ourselves)

 

The back page has What are the exemptons?

 

You do not need a driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:

 

Not authorised to exceed 45kph

 

Being used under the instructions of the armed forces, the Police or a fire and rescue authority.

 

Undergoing road tests for technical development repair or for maintenance purposes.

 

Being used in a state of emergency as part of a rescue mission (?)

 

Being used for driving lessons for either driving licence or driver cpc purposes.

 

Not being used to carry passengers or goods for commercial purposes

 

And the real beauty: Carrying materials or equipment for your work, where driving is not your principal activity.

 

The last one is a whole world of argument.

 

There is also the usual denial: This list is not necessarily exhustive and only intended as a guide. DSA recommend in all cases where it is felt an exemption applies, the driver seeks independent legal advice. OR: WE don't know what we are talking about, we're just making it up as we go along. So go ask a lawyer!.

[ArtistsRifles]

<Snipped>

 

And the real beauty: Carrying materials or equipment for your work, where driving is not your principal activity.

 

The last one is a whole world of argument.

 

There is also the usual denial: This list is not necessarily exhustive and only intended as a guide. DSA recommend in all cases where it is felt an exemption applies, the driver seeks independent legal advice. OR: WE don't know what we are talking about, we're just making it up as we go along. So go ask a lawyer!.

 

This has a depressingly familiar ring to it....

How are you supposed to get a lawyer to advise you when the people making the rules are the ones saying basically they haven't a clue what they are talking about. You can go and spend shed-loads of money on legal bills only for the "Agency" to turn around and amend the wording to suit there own needs.....

:argh: :argh: :argh:

[Tony B]

true, especially as David Ives and my livelyhood depend on getting it absolutley right,:shake:

[private mw]

i asked this question last year about the simca sumb went to post office and got tax disc no problem ,

[Phil P]

Tony the first exemption is a bit strange or is it me who can't understand what it says. I read the relavent parts in another publication but didn't spot that one. I did note that the course is fifty hours spread over a maximum of 5 years at £35-00/hour.

That smacks of generating income for the Government. There's no point in getting a lawyer on the case. By the time they have read it through and checked it to make sure they can't be had for getting it wrong it will have been on the statute books 10 years! They tried the same with congestion charges. By the time men in wigs had read the fine print to check if it was constitutionaly correct it was in operation. Once there is an example it can be referred to in a court of law and used a guide. The men in wigs still get paid! Good innit?