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Your Average Joe

Identifying Some Vehicles

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During the lockdown I decided that I would spend some of my time learning about the journey my Grandad took through Africa (and wherever else he ended up) during WW2.

I'm fortunate that he took a lot of photos during his service so I have quite a good insight, and I'd like to start identifying some of the features of his pictures, namely the vehicles that he managed to capture. There's a few photos in the pile that show vehicles, but for now I'll start off with one that there's a chance he actually used.

From what I've read, I think the number on the door is the WD Census Number?? But if it reads "L IS2511" as I think it does, that's not exactly a number... :/

 

I intend to upload the rest of the images tomorrow when I've sifted through the pile once more.

If anybody has an insight on this vehicle that would be a great start.

104261806_2821087498177761_5282753817842556426_n.jpg

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10 minutes ago, MatchFuzee said:

It is 8 not S. 

Ahhh, that must be the shape of the stencil. 

So the number is "L 1 8 2 5 1 1" that makes sense now. Thank you

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4 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

the truck is a  Bedford OYD 3 tonner from contract v3603

Oh that's brilliant thank you! One truck down, now I'll have to get onto the other photos ASAP.

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Yes, definately a Bedford. Lovely photo.

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25 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

Yes, definately a Bedford. Lovely photo.

It is one of our favoured photos. The other is below, not particularly vehicle related but a good photo nonetheless.

If there's anyone interested, once I get hold of his service record and can piece together locations, I intend to collate everything in chronological order of My Grandad's journey through Africa, I can post all of the ordered pictures in "Other Chatter" for people to have a look through.

 

The caption on this photo reads: "One bottle per man"

104010789_621847138455042_1948258033228386760_n.jpg

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Right, I've sifted through and here are the rest. While some images are easily identified I thought I'd include them anyway for people to have a look at.
 

I'll include any captions above their respective image.

 

Caption Reads: "Wrecked Jerry Truck with dead still there, Note 'X'"

(I've removed any upsetting detail from the image)

104200918_263960794876179_4694941751868336775_n.thumb.jpg.8542a35fb304e0965531b8558b0bf11f.jpg

 

Caption: "One of the many"

104333724_288794859148262_5068647286647722852_n.thumb.jpg.104a61da7e97de288777e36d0c48c75a.jpg

 

Caption: "British tank going into action, June 1940. Taken as we left"

104166348_2760308790913567_597868163128868725_n.thumb.jpg.3cd512205606ec3c5e82a0179e87d725.jpg

 

Caption: "Jerry petrol tankers after the RAF had been. This was the scene for miles"

104142880_187900965933087_8561934146317568888_n.thumb.jpg.231f766f74b5fc54093be76b4cd4517d.jpg

 

Caption: "Captured Jerry tanks"

82945174_263262124887270_9070086818418722381_n.thumb.jpg.fbfad414ad54b58745216bc131ccc524.jpg

 

No Caption

104207111_272925893823286_8469979095093975748_n.thumb.jpg.ee74411e627d3c2e6d044115fb9afccf.jpg

 

Caption: "Abandoned Jerry trucks Nr Mersa Matruh"

104496998_3301463939916152_4939367625091789576_n.thumb.jpg.ad074f11694bdbde10367166839cade3.jpg

 

Caption: "German gun on carrier"

104035859_3289637934401057_1971971353471989524_n.thumb.jpg.2b4bccc9630c2254a39823d05c096629.jpg

 

Caption: "Captured tank" (can only assume it was captured by the Germans and then recaptured/found later on???)

104111112_705283610269203_7923891477488681419_n.jpg.9973f71b022e7a2872bd0743c6948551.jpg

 

Caption: "Petrol tankers at Mersa Matruh"

104124985_723354208480791_854535413801590670_n.thumb.jpg.3e739ad3529a38f180d63ee4d1b484ac.jpg

 

Caption: "Tank transporters at dawn"

104074447_2817211125068914_4860329439829729466_n.jpg.c7e676e8058cfa8718c68dcbf3fcae94.jpg

 

Caption: "Barce(?) Nr Benghazi"

82871994_644909756118209_3822690041295458127_n.jpg.0df961d5301ad7ee29fec54269b40897.jpg

 

I know some of the photos aren't great angles, but we can call those ones a challenge :)

 

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I have some photos of my Grandfather in North Africa around the same sort of time, I will scan them too.

Very similar to these really, general snaps but a few with fleeting glimpses of trucks etc.

 

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3 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

I have some photos of my Grandfather in North Africa around the same sort of time, I will scan them too.

Very similar to these really, general snaps but a few with fleeting glimpses of trucks etc.

 

That would be great to see it from another person's perspective too.

There are a lot of photos in and around Jerusalem and Tobruk, a lot of the ones that aren't are more "on the road" sort of pictures. I think he was involved in the supply of petrol, which would explain those ones.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, MatchFuzee said:

I wonder if this was taken on the same day.

There's a good chance they could be the same day, the other Monty photos we have show him visiting some wounded men in hospital, but no date or location is included in the captions.

Edited by Your Average Joe
Shorten quote

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MatchFuzee said:

I wonder if this was taken on the same day. 

The caption is:-

Here's Monty on 21 June 1943 in North Africa:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=201018

607px-The_British_Army_in_North_Africa_1943_E25431.jpg

There were two Humber convertibles that Montgomery used, both survive, one is at the Coventry transport museum, the other is in the Imperial War museum, London,.. there is a privatley owned Military Humber covertible at the History on Wheels museum at Eton wick nr Windsor

Edited by Nick Johns

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The one in the photographs is OLD FAITHFUL and is at DUXFORD and l drove it  1n 1995 at the liberation celebration in BRUSSELLS the other is the  VICTORY  CAR the one he used in  Europe as well as his ROLLS-ROYCE which landed in NORMANDY JUNE 9TH 1944

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I have visited the film company at Eton Wick, a lot of very interesting vehicles there.

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Just now, wally dugan said:

The one in the photographs is OLD FAITHFUL and is at DUXFORD and l drove it  1n 1995 at the liberation celebration in BRUSSELLS the other is the  VICTORY  CAR the one he used in  Europe as well as his ROLLS-ROYCE which landed in NORMANDY JUNE 9TH 1944

Well I envy you driving the Humber!

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Oh wow, very jealous you got to drive the Humber! I imagined of all the vehicles pictured Montgomery's car would be one of those that survived to this day. Certainly not a vehicle anybody would ignore, that's for sure.

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38 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

The one in the photographs is OLD FAITHFUL and is at DUXFORD and l drove it  1n 1995 at the liberation celebration in BRUSSELLS the other is the  VICTORY  CAR the one he used in  Europe as well as his ROLLS-ROYCE which landed in NORMANDY JUNE 9TH 1944

Old Faithfull is now on display at IWM London

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3 hours ago, Your Average Joe said:

Right, I've sifted through and here are the rest. While some images are easily identified I thought I'd include them anyway for people to have a look at.
 

I'll include any captions above their respective image.

 

Caption Reads: "Wrecked Jerry Truck with dead still there, Note 'X'"

(I've removed any upsetting detail from the image)

104200918_263960794876179_4694941751868336775_n.thumb.jpg.8542a35fb304e0965531b8558b0bf11f.jpg

 

Caption: "One of the many"

104333724_288794859148262_5068647286647722852_n.thumb.jpg.104a61da7e97de288777e36d0c48c75a.jpg

 

Caption: "British tank going into action, June 1940. Taken as we left"

104166348_2760308790913567_597868163128868725_n.thumb.jpg.3cd512205606ec3c5e82a0179e87d725.jpg

 

Caption: "Jerry petrol tankers after the RAF had been. This was the scene for miles"

104142880_187900965933087_8561934146317568888_n.thumb.jpg.231f766f74b5fc54093be76b4cd4517d.jpg

 

Caption: "Captured Jerry tanks"

82945174_263262124887270_9070086818418722381_n.thumb.jpg.fbfad414ad54b58745216bc131ccc524.jpg

 

No Caption

104207111_272925893823286_8469979095093975748_n.thumb.jpg.ee74411e627d3c2e6d044115fb9afccf.jpg

 

Caption: "Abandoned Jerry trucks Nr Mersa Matruh"

104496998_3301463939916152_4939367625091789576_n.thumb.jpg.ad074f11694bdbde10367166839cade3.jpg

 

Caption: "German gun on carrier"

104035859_3289637934401057_1971971353471989524_n.thumb.jpg.2b4bccc9630c2254a39823d05c096629.jpg

 

Caption: "Captured tank" (can only assume it was captured by the Germans and then recaptured/found later on???)

104111112_705283610269203_7923891477488681419_n.jpg.9973f71b022e7a2872bd0743c6948551.jpg

 

Caption: "Petrol tankers at Mersa Matruh"

104124985_723354208480791_854535413801590670_n.thumb.jpg.3e739ad3529a38f180d63ee4d1b484ac.jpg

 

Caption: "Tank transporters at dawn"

104074447_2817211125068914_4860329439829729466_n.jpg.c7e676e8058cfa8718c68dcbf3fcae94.jpg

 

Caption: "Barce(?) Nr Benghazi"

82871994_644909756118209_3822690041295458127_n.jpg.0df961d5301ad7ee29fec54269b40897.jpg

 

I know some of the photos aren't great angles, but we can call those ones a challenge :)

 

That Rogers trailer would be shipped direct to North Africa from America.

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Ok so, I've been doing a little research and digging around to piece the background of some of these images together.

Working down the above photos from the top, we have:

1 - Unknown German truck, but potentially an Opel Blitz judging by the cab shape,

2 - Carro Armato M13/40, Italian Light Tank,

3 - Lee/Grant, couldn't tell you which, I have no idea what the differences were,

4 - "Jerry Petrol Tankers". Looking at what is left of the cabs and engine housing, I think this is actually a Bedford OY tanker?

5 - Your typical Panzer III,

6 - Monty's Old Faithful as established above,

7 - I honestly don't think there's enough of these vehicles visible to identify them, but I'm more than happy for someone to prove me wrong,

8 - This is an interesting one, a vehicle I never even knew existed... It's apparently a 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper(f). Basically an SPG on the captured French chassis of a Lorraine 37L Carrier. I think they might have been used exclusively in Africa as sources say Rommel requested them and only around 55 were made.

- "Captured Tank". Another Lee/Grant, however from what I've found it is now extremely likely that it was captured by the Germans and they retaken by allied forces at a later date.

10 - Lots of Bedford trucks and a Crusdaer(? correct me if that's wrong),

11 - As mentioned above this is a "Rogers Trailer" with a Grant/Lee on, and last but by no means least,

12 - Another Bedford.

 

The confusing thing about some of these pictures at first was that they claimed to be of captured vehicles that I'm now sure are actually allied vehicles. However, most of these were taken near the Port city of Mersa Matruh (Marsa Matruh nowadays I believe). So, I think... After the battle of Mersa Matruh in June 1942 (a disaster for the Allies, following an even worse disaster at Gazala earlier that month which lead to the appointment of Montgomery), the Axis forces acquired lots of Allied equipment and fuel that was left behind by a fleeing X and XIII Corps. So the convoy of German Tankers (Allied vehicles) and the "captured" (retaken) tanks back up the idea that my Grandad was in this location AFTER the Battle of Mersa Matruh in June 1942, and no earlier than November '42 when these areas were swiftly retaken by forces under the control of Montgomery.

 

Apologies for the rather long post, but I think it's interesting info offering a bit of insight into how the material that gets left behind is put to use by the opposite side, as well as how chaotic and frantic the situations of both sides in North Africa really were.

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I think the Panzer is on a German trailer an Sd.Ah.116.

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1 hour ago, john1950 said:

I think the Panzer is on a German trailer an Sd.Ah.116.

Ooh, I completely forgot about the trailer that the Panzer is on. Looking at a picture of an Sd.Ah.116 though I'd say your spot on there, thank you for that one!

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And photos 3, 9 & 11 are all Grants. They have different turrets to Lees as they were built to British orders with provision for British radios and other small differences. Lees have a more upright turret with a tall rotating comander's cupola on top of that.

Photo 10 is a Crusader but the truck on the extreme right is I think a 3ton Dodge or Chevrolet.

David

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35 minutes ago, David Herbert said:

And photos 3, 9 & 11 are all Grants. They have different turrets to Lees as they were built to British orders with provision for British radios and other small differences. Lees have a more upright turret with a tall rotating comander's cupola on top of that.

Photo 10 is a Crusader but the truck on the extreme right is I think a 3ton Dodge or Chevrolet.

David

Ah ok, so while the tanks are all British, the transporter, the Willis Jeeps and the Dodge/Chevrolet (which I can't say I even noticed) are all US. They were assisting in Africa since May '42, but invaded Algeria and Morocco in November, which ties in pretty nicely with the dates these photos might have been taken.

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Dodge and Chevrolet trucks were used extensively by the British and Commonwealth forces in WW2, but these were produced in Canada, both in CMP form and as modified civilian types, so their presence is not necessarily a sign of US involvement. The LRDG was a regular user of the Chevrolets. The Grant tank appeared in North Africa in May 1942, but again in British service.

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