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My name is Pawel ( eng. Paul) and I am a new forum member from Poland.
I have two Triumphs 3S from 1940.
Probably both were sent to Russia with the help of Lend Lease and served in the Polish army in Russia. Because they were not entirely original, so I decided to restore them to the specifications from 1940. One will be the version of 3S de Luxe, and the other in the colors of Polish Air Forces in Great Britain.
I would like to ask for help in rebuilding and finding motorcycle numbers in the contract numbers.
First (de luxe version):
frame number: TL 15567
engine number: 28594

Second (military):
frame number: TL 17954
engine number: 28675

Both have contract number: C5108.

I will be grateful for all comments.
Paul

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I am sure if you re-post this in the motorcycle section some of the 'regulars' will come up with some help Pawel.

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I would say, based on the early 1940 dates of these machines that they are most likely to have been abandoned by the British Army in 1940 and travelled eastwards after being captured by the Wehrmacht.

Are there any other stampings such as WD serial or inspection marks on the crankcases  such as those below ?

Quite a lot of the inotial WD machines were to full civilian specification and simply overpainted. Unfortunately, all the Triumph factory records were lost during the bombing of Coventry, so we are often filling in the gaps using those which have survived. Photos of your engine numbers would be really helpful.

Polish forces in the UK used machines as supplied to the War Office so the base colour would be Khaki Green No.3

Triumph 3SW C63511.jpg

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Thanks for the answer.
I didn't think about the way through Dunkirk.
For distinction I will call them civilian and military.

I buy a civilian  in 1982. The front wheel, mudguard were from DKW NZ and the front fork was not original. It had a Polish army nameplate from the 1946 (
demobilization). Instead of the year of production is the date of release of the model. The engine number has a first digit added.
The frame has original numbers in the head and under the saddle.

I bought a military for part 20 years ago. He was an endless chopper project.
It has a folding motor made of two different halves, but luckily they fit together and are in the axis. The left half with the numbers was burned out, maybe hit with a bullet and repaired. I was fixing it today. So these numbers may be from another motorcycle.
The frame has readable numbers and in two places.

Were motorcycles for Air Force also green?
I started to mounting in Blue / Gray RAF. :(
 

Civilian  .jpg

Civilian.jpg

Civilian   .jpg

Silnik 3S '40 nr 28594  egz.1 civilian.jpg

civilian Triumph 3S in 1983.jpg

Frame number military .jpg

Frame number military.jpg

military engine number.jpg

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40 3S tells you what you need to know about the model. C5108 was the Ministry of Supply contract for initially 300 machines and then a further 3000. At that early period of 1940 it is likely that they would have been used to supply the BEF in France. It seems that sometimes they stamped the individual WD serial number and sometimes the contract number.

The Polish identification plate is interesting. Clearly someone arrived at an incorrect year of manufacture. The '40' prefix should have told them that 🙂

The Polish Airforce in the UK used vehicles from War Department stock and RAF vehicles as well as Army were painted 'Service Colour' which in 1940 was Khaki Green. The RAF had used blue/grey before the war but the risk of air attack caused a switch to a less visible colour.

This Enfield WD/C is I believe with Polish airmen in Scotland.

 

 

040.jpg

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Posted (edited)
Thanks, actually Enfield is green in the picture (colourised with two aplications).
I have to decide whether or not to change the color.
I think the year of production was mistaken for the year of the model. 3S began to be produced since 1937.
I will transfer this thread to the motorcycle department.
Greetings
Paul

Polscy lotnicy w Szkocji Royal Enfield WD_C colourise.sg .jpg

Polscy lotnicy w Szkocji Royal Enfield WD_C demos.algorithmia.com .png

Edited by pawelcen
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Hi Pawel

thank you for sharing the details of the bikes ..I have enjoyed reading the thread so far and reviewing the photos 

Frame TL15567 ..The engine stamping were very interesting as with triumphs it's not unusual to see the engine numbers modified post war ..

In the period immediately after the war triumph had a manufacturing success and many people wanted a triumph 

War time bikes were undesirable and the value was in the pre war bikes and post war so many ww2 bikes were modified to be attractive to these market .potentially your bike was one of these ..Triumph have very distinctive engine stamps ..so as.you have identified you have the inspectors WE stamp ..followed by the year 40 (1940l and the model 3s

The Engine number has had a 3 added (wrong font) to the front and this has been used to register the bike in Poland but mis identified..you also have the contract number which again is a triumph stamp C5108

the large overstamp of 71435 is interesting and is an doing a bit more research into that ..could I get a close up of that stamp please ...

The frame should have the lugs for the field stand clips ..or the weld marks where these have been removed

 

Jenkinov

 

 

 

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Hi Pawel

Frame TL17954 this bikes engine appears to have suffered another common fate in that somebody tried to emulate the post war polished engine cases and has tried to remove the large and distinctive Triumph  war time stamps ..

These stamps are deep and pleasingly most have survived ..but I am sure that the individual who tried to remove these would have been deeply frustrated.

.he has clearly wanted to retain the engine number and letter s but the rest have been substantially removed ...Contract c5108 is visible .

It's curious This engine appears to feature a similar overstep to the other with a large 7 remaining ....

there are professional  techniques to recover removed numbers but those are costly and from what I can see there is enough to correctly identify this engine ...

Again with The Frame you should have the lugs for the field stand clips either on the frame or at least t he weld scars from them ..

great to see more 3sw being identified ..could I suggest you add then to the triumph register at WDTriumph.com

Please share more photos as you restore them

 

Jenkinov

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Jenkinov,

I send enlarged engine numbers.
This number 71435 is a mystery to me. Not listed in any documents. I know that the motorcycle was sold by the Polish army in 1946 and went to the civil market. Although the identification plate has a capacity of 350 ccm, someone has registered it in Poland with a capacity of 200ccm! There were probably lower taxes. This is recorded in the Polish CEPIK (central vehicle database).
I bought it in 1982. I have no previous documents and it is difficult to determine today.
"so as.you have identified you have the inspectors WE stamp" - I do not know these stamps.
Both frames had a field stand attachment welded to the frame. Unfortunately, in this "civilian" I removed them in 1982.
 I thought it was a post-war modification.
Thank you very much.
Paul

Civilian   — engine number.jpg

Enigine, frame, gearbox number  .jpg

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Posted (edited)
I correspond with Jork from februar 2019; was to put my Triumphs on the list.
But you can't see them today.
I once tried to set a number by the police, but they have no historical knowledge of pre-war England numbering.
I will quote this post in two separate pages about motorcycles.
Paul
Edited by pawelcen

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Hi Paul

Thanks For your feedback ..My computer auto corrected my text ..which should have read WD stamp ..War department

In the Triumph Factory the  war department had an inspector ..he would as his title suggests inspect and accept the engines .each had a unique stamp yours is visible on the left overstepped in part with a large 7 ..

The stamp comprises the War department arrow a letter M and the inspectors number which I believe is 68...

Ron Pier one of the forum members has traced a photo of the inspector for one of his  bikes ..as he stamps it .

The field stand clip lugs have often been removed ..you will need to 're-onstage these if you want to fit a field stand 

 

Jenkinov

 

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Thanks all for the emails.
In accordance with the advice of "No Signals" I founded two new topics:
- Triumph 3S de Luxe
- Triumph 3SW.
I am asking everyone for help and comments on new topics.
There I will put pictures of each of them.
Thanks
Paul

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On 6/9/2020 at 8:38 PM, pawelcen said:
My RAF military bike.
 

military .jpeg

I like the work done and your workshop!

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