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Mk3iain

Modern or newish ex military vehicles

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Posted (edited)

We are seeing more modern vehicles such as the current MAN trucks being cast with low hours and seemingly excellent condition.

How practical are they for the lay person to own. I hear tell of modern electronics such as Canbus systems etc. Hearing of the Australian experience with G wagons and the change to a vehicle controlled by a processor, such as not starting unless its completely happy. How are they getting on in service? Will they be a liability?

Generally does anybody have any feedback on how the modern vehicles that are being released or could be released in the coming years are really performing, quirks and problems.

Just a general question really, but we moving from "I can see it and understand and fix it" to where you need a functional flow chard of modules, anyway they are all too expensive for me..

 

Iain

Edited by Mk3iain
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All modern (up to 15 years old) cars have similar systems and are generally pretty reliable. Usually it is a sensor or damaged wire causing the problem and you can work out the problem relatively easily without the diagnostics. BUT NOT ALWAYS ! I have a 2005 Range Rover and if the speedo stops working and I get a message that ABS and air suspension aren't working, it means that the left rear ABS sensor has died. Simples !

David

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6 minutes ago, David Herbert said:

All modern (up to 15 years old) cars have similar systems and are generally pretty reliable. Usually it is a sensor or damaged wire causing the problem and you can work out the problem relatively easily without the diagnostics. BUT NOT ALWAYS ! I have a 2005 Range Rover and if the speedo stops working and I get a message that ABS and air suspension aren't working, it means that the left rear ABS sensor has died. Simples !

David

That is the way now isn't it, OBD readers are almost essential and readily available for most cars. I have had similar problems with two cars,  VXR8 and a Touareg, both times it turned out to be wheel bearings.

For me though a lot of the enjoyment comes from working on things I can see working, fixing modern cars is something I have to do but don't enjoy, its not the same.

Also for me part of the appreciation of ex military equipment is the often simplistic but clever design to do a complex or difficult job, such as the little can openers for example.

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Quite a few of the MANs being cast are non-runners and although low mileage, can't be economically fixed due to necessary parts not being available.  I was surprised at this but have heard it confirmed by someone involved in the process. Terrible waste of tax payer monies as they don't make a fraction of their perceived value at auction. I'm not into the Army MANs as sole-less trucks in my opinion but if I did want to buy one, I would be concerned as to why there is never any physical viewing at the auctions and all bidding is done based upon the posted photo's on the website.

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2 minutes ago, MIKES said:

Quite a few of the MANs being cast are non-runners and although low mileage, can't be economically fixed due to necessary parts not being available.  I was surprised at this but have heard it confirmed by someone involved in the process. Terrible waste of tax payer monies as they don't make a fraction of their perceived value at auction. I'm not into the Army MANs as sole-less trucks in my opinion but if I did want to buy one, I would be concerned as to why there is never any physical viewing at the auctions and all bidding is done based upon the posted photo's on the website.

I suppose that you would have to deal with MAN for parts and info, that will not be cheap, if they will deal with you. Its an expensive way to pose at shows and you would have to have a very special requirement to buy one for business.

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Posted (edited)

I think there is no vlewing on site because they do not have the personel to cater for an influx of civvy buyers. Also costs associated with insurance etc.

Edited by john1950
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12 hours ago, Mk3iain said:

We are seeing more modern vehicles such as the current MAN trucks being cast with low hours and seemingly excellent condition.

How practical are they for the lay person to own. I hear tell of modern electronics such as Canbus systems etc. Hearing of the Australian experience with G wagons and the change to a vehicle controlled by a processor, such as not starting unless its completely happy. How are they getting on in service? Will they be a liability?

Generally does anybody have any feedback on how the modern vehicles that are being released or could be released in the coming years are really performing, quirks and problems.

Just a general question really, but we moving from "I can see it and understand and fix it" to where you need a functional flow chard of modules, anyway they are all too expensive for me..

 

Iain

The MAN SVs along with most current British military vehicles have lots of electronic equipment on them.

A couple of years ago I saw a REME corporal almost in tears when his laptop crashed while trying to diagnose a fault on a Foxhound.

All current British military vehicles have lots of special test equipment and specific diagnostic laptops which will be wiped before disposal so any civilian owner will have great difficulty working on them. 

The biggest problem with MAN SVs is that they can be shut down remotely from the factory in Germany!

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10 hours ago, johnwardle said:

The MAN SVs along with most current British military vehicles have lots of electronic equipment on them.

A couple of years ago I saw a REME corporal almost in tears when his laptop crashed while trying to diagnose a fault on a Foxhound.

All current British military vehicles have lots of special test equipment and specific diagnostic laptops which will be wiped before disposal so any civilian owner will have great difficulty working on them. 

The biggest problem with MAN SVs is that they can be shut down remotely from the factory in Germany!

Not good !

At least with older land rover's and Bedford's if the word came to leg it to a new location quick the worst would be a jump start off another vehicle. Now it would be, hold on get the laptop out...  Most likely there would be a trail of abandoned vehicles.

Not much chance of the average collector storing one of these and sorting it in a few years time in the shed.

I'll keep to older stuff.

Iain

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If the factory have the shutdown codes, It does pose the question, What if an aggressor got there hands on them. On a Mercedes I drove it had a manual get you to a safe place switch for the gearbox in the armrest, for use if the auto system shut down. In these days when vehicles automaticaly send fault codes to the factory, It seems they are sometimes reluctant to share this information with the people trying to fix the fault.  

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Posted (edited)

There is somewhere, film of an acceptance test on the old Bedford MK. It was stood about 50 meteres from a large blast, all the windows went, various bits flew off. Then a squaddie got in, started it up and drove off.

Edited by Tony B

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20 hours ago, johnwardle said:

 

The biggest problem with MAN SVs is that they can be shut down remotely from the factory in Germany!

 

I believe that this actually happened in Afghanistan !!!!

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I was told the tale that an MAN wrecker was sent out to Canada and MAN remotely killed it because they thought it had been stolen. The Army were not amused because at the time they did not know MAN had the capability.

I have also been shown the switch on the dash board that bypasses all the things that would normally stop it  so you can at least limp it off the battlefield if a sidelight blows.

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I don't see how anyone can remotely shut the vehicle down unless they can somehow communicate with it?

Andy

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15 hours ago, andym said:

I don't see how anyone can remotely shut the vehicle down unless they can somehow communicate with it?

Andy

McLaren had that technology in the F1 30 years ago, some current cars can get a software update without you even knowing.

 

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1 hour ago, radiomike7 said:

McLaren had that technology in the F1 30 years ago, some current cars can get a software update without you even knowing.

 

But ONLY if there's a means of communicating with them!

Andy

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1 hour ago, andym said:

But ONLY if there's a means of communicating with them!

Andy

The F1 used a 14.4k modem which suggests that it was 2 way communication. 

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One of the last companys I worked for had real time remote driver behavior monitoring, and did phone some drivers to tell to adjust there speed and or engine revs. Also Fridge temperature monitoring and also in real time vehicle manufacturer monitoring and security monitering. I always thought if they have the tech to watch they have the tech to intervene.

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Posted (edited)

WHAT a pessimistic  lot we are every vehicle sold has problems  were manufactures come up with you cannot do this unless you have this manual or this piece of electric reader or this special tool and how many times has some one come up with the answer  to what seems a solution without all this stuff

Edited by wally dugan

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It is ok for basic stuff but these vehicles have engine management boxes missing and transmission controls. These are going to be mega money from MAN. You could buy 2 or 3 vehicles to get one missing piece then it would have to be coded to the vehicle. This stuff is 5th and 6th generation stuff. Send for the 10 year old they will know how to program it.

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45 minutes ago, john1950 said:

This stuff is 5th and 6th generation stuff. Send for the 10 year old they will know how to program it.

You'll need proprietary information that you'll never get out of the OEM.  😞

Andy

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Until the military vehicles get out into civvi life and start having problems no one wil know. Does anyone have a tame bod from an OEM or Dealer workshop to ask? I only know the first time I drove a MAN truck I could not open the truck front to check the oil, I would not start the days work until I had done. After a conversation which included doubts about my parents I went to the local dealers. Where it was found the cable for the lock was broken the bill went way into three figures and I was not flavour of the month. I do remember it needed a good glug of oil to get it onto the mark though.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, radiomike7 said:

McLaren had that technology in the F1 30 years ago, some current cars can get a software update without you even knowing.

 

just looked it up august 2008 was called out RTA a 19 york.On arrival 8 wheel man truck hit up arse by 4 wheel man both  on driver training.  pulled in to a layby for sandwich one had stopped one had not. to be honest 4 wheeler was a mess  eight wheeler only had rear light smashed one side while loading 8 wheeler on to our low loader engine started cranking over nobody flinched  so carried on did it again i asked what the fs going "Oh dont worry thats Man in Germany trying to work outs whats wrong  the are trying to get in a position to enable us to limp home

Edited by cosrec
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