CMV Lack of brit WW2 softskin vehicles at W&P 2007

[N.O.S.]

Tony,

 

Trouble is, how many vehicles are there, restored in the UK? Many owners have more than one, so most times only one is brought out. Some, due to their age, condition, etc. are not driven too far from home, so would rely on transporting, that brings costs in to it. The numbers of vehicles coming in to Beltring have risen, but it is staggering how many of them are visitors from overseas and the majority of them are PW non-British.

QL,

 

 

Having engaged brain instead of "coasting in neutral", and read your comments Richard, I realise 9% is wildy optimistic.

 

If you look at each MVT area camp, the entries represent a very small fraction of members' vehicles, also given the number of foreign vehicles there, probably 2% is more realistic.

 

A bit academic but it helps to put the discussion into perspetive. After all, any change is only a change in the folk who ever go / went to W&P. No doubt as some drop out, others might venture in to keep the Brit numbers up?

[woa2]

OK, I was at W&P this year, and I took both my British WW2 vehicles, a Ford WOT2 and a WOA2 (for the first time). I didn't take part in the Parade, as it originally involved driving outside the Hop Farm, and I wanted to video both the British vehicles and also the German vehicles who were parading later. Had I known it was changed to just the site, I would have taken part. Also, I was going to get involved in an Arena event featuring British vehicles, but this was scheduled for Friday, and I decided against this after the rain and a look at the mud in the arena at mid-day.

I think there is not a shortage of British WW2, it's just that W&P attracts many enthusists from the continent, and they all seem to have American vehicles. You just had to search and find them amongst the rest of the entrants. At the Trucks & Troops show at Beaulieu in May, British soft skin was prevelant.

[LeeEnfield]

At the Trucks & Troops show at Beaulieu in May, British soft skin was prevelant.

 

 

 

Very True.

 

All being well, mine will be there next year. :-)

[Tony B]

As far as Dunkirk goes a lot of vehicles and other kit ended up in German hands, and was used. I have a photo to make you cry , after the liberation of Jersey at Springfield stadium full of vehicles, then crushed with a Renault char b tank, also taken by germans and sold presumably for scrap. America also specialised in few set designs, regardless of manufacturer the whole lot fitted, production engineering. the lesson had been learnt with the Liberty truck. Another very good reason, A dodge is a hell of a sight more comfortable to drive than a Morris or Bedford. Remember the British Subsidy scheme, any manufacturer fitting basic requirements could get a truck under the scheme. the buyer then got a war office subsidy if £120 about the price of the chassis but the vehicle was subject to requisition. With about a quarter million Dodges produced from 1 plant in about 2 1/2 years, a figure any modern plant would envy you see the Yanks got it right.

[Richard Farrant]

With about a quarter million Dodges produced from 1 plant in about 2 1/2 years, a figure any modern plant would envy you see the Yanks got it right.

 

 

It might have been a lot different if their plants had been decimated by enemy bombing raids, and of course, raw materials were more readily available. What our industry did was truely remarkable at the time, which makes the old British vehicles something special.

[LeeEnfield]

It might have been a lot different if their plants had been decimated by enemy bombing raids, and of course, raw materials were more readily available. What our industry did was truely remarkable at the time, which makes the old British vehicles something special.

 

 

 

Very True, Richard.

[andyroo]

 

but yeah old softskin british vehicle especailly war time ones are getting rare and not everyone can transport such vehicles i mean i travel from yorkshire to the W&P every year this year was with my landy i know its not WW2 or a truck but if i was to drive it, it would cost £600 in fuel alone which i can only imagine how much it would cost for an old WW2 bedford or austin.

 

 

£600.00 :-o Thats more than two hundred more than it cost me to go down in my Ferret

[Gareth Coe]

£600.00 :-o Thats more than two hundred more than it cost me to go down in my Ferret

 

Perhaps he's got a leaky fuel tank :?

[G506]

 

 

Certainly won't 'swipe' against anyone rebuilding ANY nations vehicle. If it saves it being scrapped and lost, good on you. :-)

 

 

No intended swipes at any one in this posting.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

No worries fella :-D

[Jack]

What a great thread - just learnt shed loads!

[G506]

yeah its no over drive and its only doing 12-13mpg plus of the kit it has in the back plus no free wheeling hubs and its petrol so its an exspense but we are currently making an A frame to drag it down rather than a trailer

 

 

 

Just a word of caution there Jonathan, dont forget that on an A frame, your 109 becomes a trailer, any trailer over 750kg must be braked, the 109 is well over double that. Lots of people do it, (and for a smaller vehicle like a Jeep, I would be tempted to do it myself), but I think they've been lucky so far. Sorry mate, not trying to p### on your bonfire, just dont want you ending up a guest at your local police station.......... :cry:

 

Maybe your best bet is -

1 Engine tune up, and thorough service of the rest of the vehicle

2 If you have a Solex or Zenith carb, replace with a Weber

3 Save up for a good second hand Fairey overdrive. Best 300 quid I ever spent.

[MilitantGraham]

I've been saying for a few years that there's not enough big British vehicles at shows in general, not just W&P.

Does anyone travel to W&P as a visitor to look at 400 jeeps and 500 Land Rovers, other than to play the "Spot the jeep not in 82nd or 101st airborne markings" game ?

Most steam rallies pay appearance money for steam engines and, for some bizarre reason, fairground organs.

Perhaps W&P could introduce some sort of sliding scale of charges/payments based on entertainment value;

JANF Jeep = £50 charge

Common medium truck = no charge

Big truck = £50 payment

Big truck with trailer = £100+ payment

[Marmite!!]

 

 

Well you've just pointed out one of the reasons I don't 'do' W&P.

pay to take a wartime british vehicle into a show, so paying folk can look at it,.......................err, NO.

 

 

 

It puzzles me why so many MV owners bark on about stumping up 25quid for two weeks entertainment but still pay the gate money to go around the stalls :dunno: Same owners also have no problem (some driving hundreds of miles) to pay nearly ten quid to go shopping at Stoneleigh for a few hours... as well as having to pay to get in to almost every other militaria fair :dunno:

[Tony B]

It puzzles me why so many MV owners bark on about stumping up 25quid for two weeks entertainment but still pay the gate money to go around the stalls :dunno: Same owners also have no problem (some driving hundreds of miles) to pay nearly ten quid to go shopping at Stoneleigh for a few hours... as well as having to pay to get in to almost every other militaria fair :dunno:

 

At militaria fairs and on foot we are public. When we take vehicles that we pay for upkeep and insurance and petrol and all the other bits, WE are providing what the public come to see. Would you pay to go to work? I have limited holidays and other things to do on my days off. If I go to a show, using my valuable spare time, and someone else is out to make a profit from it, and W&P has no other purpose, then I expect something for it, not to be treated like a **** :box:

[Marmite!!]

At militaria fairs and on foot we are public. When we take vehicles that we pay for upkeep and insurance and petrol and all the other bits, WE are providing what the public come to see. Would you pay to go to work? I have limited holidays and other things to do on my days off. If I go to a show, using my valuable spare time, and someone else is out to make a profit from it, and W&P has no other purpose, then I expect something for it, not to be treated like a **** :box:

 

Every show we attend someone makes a profit with nothing in return... my point was they charge the stallholders lots of money but no one complains about paying to go shopping for a few hours... & don't forget we go to these fairs in our cars........

which pay for upkeep and insurance and petrol and all the other bits

[sirhc]

W&P does have another purpose other than making profit. It provides the location and facilities for a pretty unique event the likes of which can't be seen anywhere else in the world.

[Tony B]

True , but if we go to a fair for instance, we go because we want to. We expect to pay for any rides etc, but I wouldn't pay to walk round. If I went to a museum I wouldn't expect people to pay to show the exhibits. I'll go back to my original point, if we don't take our vehicles then the public won't turn up to look at an empty Field. I've run events for many years and know what the costs are, I also run equestrian competions, where people pay an entry fee to compete. But that is because I have hired and arranged things so that they may compete safely on their horses. I would pay to take my vehicle around a cross country course for the same reason, someone has to pay for the upkeep. The public, not us, go to W&P specifically to see the vehicles and cars being squashed etc. How many vehicles do W&P actually own? Do you really think that so many people would pay to go and see it if private owners were not there? The stall holders go , because we are there, and they will pay because there are so many potential customers. So back to my original question Why should I pay for privilege of making show organisers money?

[Marmite!!]

True , but if we go to a fair for instance, we go because we want to. We expect to pay for any rides etc, but I wouldn't pay to walk round.

 

I was talking about Miltaria fairs not Fun Fairs...

 

 

Don't forget the W&P show is a 365day affair... pop in to Rex's office anytime & you will see...

[sirhc]

Tony, you seem to miss the point of W&P.

 

Forget the public for a second. Exhibitors go there because they want to be there, have a good time, meet up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere. While I am there I really don't care about the public. I don't do it for them, I do it for me.

 

You should pay because you want to be there, not because you want to make the organisers money. Obviously plenty of people agree with me, because the show keeps getting bigger and bigger.

 

If you spread the cost of W&P over 5 or 7 days it's cheaper to go there than Stoneleigh Militaria for one day.

 

At the end of the day you're missing out, not me!

 

Chris

[Marmite!!]

Well said Chris.. if some of these non-believers were to try it just once it might change their minds :whistle: same time, same place next year :-D

[ArtistsRifles]

Is it true they are thinking of renaming the Americas field to "Letha Lee's Field" in view of the amount of time spent there?? And the ever-increasng space taken up by the combined forces of the E.A.&S. and AVMG + diverse others (i.e. me)... :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Tony B]

Tony, you seem to miss the point of W&P.

 

Forget the public for a second. Exhibitors go there because they want to be there, have a good time, meet up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere. While I am there I really don't care about the public. I don't do it for them, I do it for me.

 

You should pay because you want to be there, not because you want to make the organisers money. Obviously plenty of people agree with me, because the show keeps getting bigger and bigger.

 

If you spread the cost of W&P over 5 or 7 days it's cheaper to go there than Stoneleigh Militaria for one day.

 

At the end of the day you're missing out, not me!

 

Chris

I would rather go to BOAR in Belgium, no public, delightful company cost of stuffs cheap and I get a foreign holiday as well. Plan a trip round the various cash and carry and tool stores and I actually end up breaking even on buying stuff in UK versus costs and price in Europe. As for militaria I'm lucky to live close to the Chatham fairs, again go dwon in uniform or drive a vehicle down, no more expensive than using the car, and I don't pay to get in.

[Jeep Apprentice]

Hi guys, I've been to W&P just twice now and can understand peoples money concerns, and security concerns, myself and mates have fun driving down from london in MV and have a FUN relaxing time at the show if we didn't we wouldn't bother to make the effort . I fly from Edinburgh 5 days before the show to help set up.

We've never had bad neighbours whilst camping (the reverse in fact) and have met some awesome people from all over europe .

I had more security probs at a smaller show this year with people trying to nick musette bags of my mates champ !!

 

W&P is worth it please try it for yourselves

 

:-D

 

rik

[Snapper]

Here I go.....

 

Lots of good points here which have slithered a little around and about the central topic.

 

Before Beltring John Blackman asked Simon and I what we wanted to do at the show for the mag coverage. I am a Beltring junky. I have a ball. So, I was happy to do a 'diary' piece plus the usual mishmash of Barnes pix. Simon is passionate about British MVs. I walked around a lot of the site with him (he goes off for hours by himself) and he was lamenting times when more British vehicles appeared at the show. He reflected on the inbalance caused by the large number of WW2 US stuff. But surely this just mirrors real life?

 

The British parade was a washout. We were pleased to see the vehicles who did appear. Simon probably had his photographer/enthusiast hat on when he wrote how sad it was no more vehicles came out. He owns an MW and a QLR and lives on the IoW- he knows about the costs of running them.

 

It surely IS a shame we don't see more emphasis on, for want of a better word, action, from British vehicles at the event. But.....

 

To Beltring itself.

 

I've only been attending since 1998. I was a punter til 2001 when I started getting a press pass and now I am on the "Press Team". This means I spend my day snapping all and sundry from dawn til dusk (and after) and the pix are selected for the show website. I make my own selection for CMV and yet more may well end up on the forum if I ever get some free time.

 

I agree with Lee about the costs - a lot, but by no means everyone, treat the event as a bit of a holiday - if not their actual summer hols. It amazes me, but it is so. I can see the point about paying to get your vehicle in tandem with the public paying to come in and see you. I don't have access to the accounts, profits and costs of the event. None of my beeswax; but the old adage about voting with your feet (or bar treads) applies. The show gets bigger.

 

People do not go for all kinds of reasons. The money, the geography, the politics and to be honest - dislike of strutting pillocks in stormtrooper outfits, drunks, slobs, tea-leafs - the lot. Wittman wannabes aside, it is a microcosm of modern Britain. You cannot like all of it, but hey - we're here for the duration.

 

I enjoy visiting smaller shows and always like to do something different - best encompassed by Operation Bolero in June. It was fantastic. I can say no more.

 

In the end we've been given the right to choose whether we go to Beltring or not. I choose to go. Owners can park up and sip tea or rumble around dodging the REOs and Landies. It's a matter of choice. You pays your money....

 

 

To British lorries. I agree Dunkirk is a false flag. The stuff left was predominantly old or requisition kit. They did leave new stuff in abundance - but the mighty British motor industry replaced it. The British did have American kit - but look out for the Bedfords, Austins, Morris-Commercials, Leylands, AECs, Fords, Albions and Thorneycrofts. They could only come from one place. Attend just about any classic commercial show and you will see a lorry - sometimes several, which used to be WD. Thousands more were simply run into the ground. These owners are not tempted to turn their pretty trucks back in to WD pattern. Britain was not awash with American lorries gifted by the Marshall Plan that now re-appear from Bolero to Beltring. What a shame.

 

I can extend this debate a little. I've decided to get rid of my Iltis. My wife wants me to get a jeep and my son wants a Champ. The US V British debate will never end. Being a punter first and foremost, I just want to see the lot...and the reality is there are very few events where you can do that - which just about brings us back to the beginning....

 

MB

 

 

 

[LeeEnfield]

I think reading all the above replies to thread, esp W&p, there are those who love the show (for whatever reasons, :-))and those who have no interest in attending,( for whatever reasons. :-))

 

for myself, - and I can only speak for myself,.....I am quite happy to not attend this show, saving my holidays and money, for events which do interest me.

 

I'm NOT knocking this show,.........just not for me, thats all.

(in same vein, hav'nt attended Kemble, Detling or Overlord, athough in these cases because of prior commitments)

 

Here's to driving our vehicles and Enjoying the experience, wherever and whichever event we choose to attend. ;-)

 

 

Andy