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talltom

New Deact legislation

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Not my understanding. The Great Repeal act will come into force, then any legislation that Parliments wants to mirror will have to be reinstated . That after all was the argunment for BREXIT to get away from EU law. My bet is that there will be Cherry Picking , but  in the Coach & Bus industry , a lot of things will change straight away , not least the status of my licences outside UK.

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To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required.

The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure.....

It is going to take a wee while !

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Um. Given current situation, my thinking is When is the next boat back to Jersey? We never were part of the EU. By the way, did you know it is still illegal for a woman to eat choclate on the top deck of a bus? Supposed to be salacious. Last one out , turn the light off, we don't want the claimate heating up anymore.

To quote the old lawyer's joke. Definition of Reasonable?= Our pay cheque.

Edited by Tony B

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12 hours ago, Mk3iain said:

To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required.

The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure.....

It is going to take a wee while !

"Take a wee while" is probably an understatement....

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So here’s a question chaps. How are the dealers buying pre EU deacts? To then sell on with a new EU cert after being re-deactivated?

i know they probably have a license but what license? Sect 1, sect 5? They don’t apply as the guns are deacs. 
 

also I believe the offence is the selling so it’s the seller that’s breaking the law and that must be regardless of whatever licence the dealers have.

 

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If they are defective deacts whatever the phrase was they presumably revert back to their original clasification prior to deactivation and hence dealers with the appropriate licence can buy them and do further work or sell them out-side of the EU.

Edited by REME 245

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I’d agree but

a) They are being held off a license legally so what are they classed as. My certs state they are no longer classed as a firearm so actual firearm legislation can’t apply (but I know it does).

b) The offence is the individual selling a defectively deactivated firearm and I’ve not read anything to suggest selling to a dealer is acceptable (again we know this is reasonable).

I wonder what would happen if every collector applied for a Sect. 5 license to hold and buy older deacs? 

I just see more ambiguity in an already ambiguous aspect of firearm law.

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14 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

So here’s a question chaps. How are the dealers buying pre EU deacts? To then sell on with a new EU cert after being re-deactivated?

i know they probably have a license but what license? Sect 1, sect 5? They don’t apply as the guns are deacs. 
 

also I believe the offence is the selling so it’s the seller that’s breaking the law and that must be regardless of whatever licence the dealers have.

 

It would be worth taking a very close look at the wording of the legislation regarding selling or transferring. It likely leaves provision for passing on to licensed dealers (sect. 1 or 5 ) for the purpose of selling or deactivation to current standard or whatever.

Chances are many folk would have to go through a dealer to have them "sorted".

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That’s another thing that grinds my gears, I bought a CZ Bren deactivated to the original EU spec and then one year later they changed the spec again and said that the gun was now defective. It’s the EU that’s defective, not my Bren.

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4 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

That’s another thing that grinds my gears, I bought a CZ Bren deactivated to the original EU spec and then one year later they changed the spec again and said that the gun was now defective. It’s the EU that’s defective, not my Bren.

I very much agree with your last sentence...

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:13 PM, Mk3iain said:

To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required.

The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure.....

It is going to take a wee while !

EU regulations are already UK law - they wouldn't be legally enforceable otherwise.

Andy

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30 minutes ago, andym said:

EU regulations are already UK law - they wouldn't be legally enforceable otherwise.

Andy

Fraid not Andy, EU laws need to be enacted by national governments but EU regulations are immediately applicable to countries within EU. >:(

Iain

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11 hours ago, Mk3iain said:

Fraid not Andy, EU laws need to be enacted by national governments but EU regulations are immediately applicable to countries within EU. >:(

Iain

Are we getting confused by semantics? There are no EU "laws" - are we talking directives or regulations?

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No semantics.  I suppose to be as correct as I can then its directives and regulations.

Anyway, regulations will have to be accepted into national law to prevent a black hole.

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The argument I had with my local Plod sometime back  was, 'You say I can't have them. Why? Regrdless of your directives and guidelines the Law says they are not firearms.   As all my de acs are Proof House marked, well what are your qualifications to judge? The only ones who are legally and entiltiled to decide are the Proof Masters, so where is thier report! I got mine back after that. Though give them thier due, the Coppers involved who had to actuallly take them away were very embarrased. Those who remeber will also note , nothing wa ssaud about my real ones.

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As others have mentioned, getting back to the basics......

A deactivated firearm to whatever specification was applicable at the time of deactivation as certificated on the Proof House Certificate is in law no longer a firearm....it ceased to be so at the time of deactivation as the Proof House Certificate confirms.......

Therefore, as far as I'm concerned my 1910-dated SMLE is in the same category as a garden spade, sledgehammer, or a food processor, etc, and no more or less dangerous.........

You could argue that the shoes you wear were once part of a cow......or the car you scrapped years ago now forming part of the cutlery set you eat with.....same with my SMLE. It was once a firearm, but once deactivated to standards in force at the time and certificated as such, it ceased to be a firearm and is now simply an object............the key thing here is not the former firearm, rather the Proof House certificate.......

The primary difficulty in enforcing any new law is that you generally need something to start with...... As things currently stand, there is absolutely no database in the UK of who owns what......sure, Proof Houses probably retained records of everything they have deactivated over many, many years but from there the ownership trail very much goes cold.....simply relying on the goodwill of law abiding individuals to declare any ownership would be an absolutely pointless exercise doomed to failure aside from requiring a vast, complicated administrative infrastructure to process such.......

As a former long-serving copper, I see no reason to nowadays to interrupt my enjoyable retirement with yet more utter EU crap.......I'm off to polish my SMLE........

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Though to be pedantic, and the Law is , part of it's joy. If you were to use said spade in a manner that convinced somone, during the course of crime that it was a firearm. You would be charged with aggrivating circumstances. The way I was taught it, if you want to aggrivate an offence, take the W.I.F.E.  Weapon, Imitation firearm, Firearm, Explosive. Bear in mind! The law was altered so that if you have a toy gun , it must be brightly coloured, unless you have an Exemption under the Violent Crime Reduction Act. , I won't comment any more on that . 🤢 Last one out, turn off the light, we don't want to warm up the atmosphere.

Edited by Tony B

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