Tony B Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Not my understanding. The Great Repeal act will come into force, then any legislation that Parliments wants to mirror will have to be reinstated . That after all was the argunment for BREXIT to get away from EU law. My bet is that there will be Cherry Picking , but in the Coach & Bus industry , a lot of things will change straight away , not least the status of my licences outside UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required. The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure..... It is going to take a wee while ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) Um. Given current situation, my thinking is When is the next boat back to Jersey? We never were part of the EU. By the way, did you know it is still illegal for a woman to eat choclate on the top deck of a bus? Supposed to be salacious. Last one out , turn the light off, we don't want the claimate heating up anymore. To quote the old lawyer's joke. Definition of Reasonable?= Our pay cheque. Edited November 23, 2019 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Mk3iain said: To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required. The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure..... It is going to take a wee while ! "Take a wee while" is probably an understatement.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 So here’s a question chaps. How are the dealers buying pre EU deacts? To then sell on with a new EU cert after being re-deactivated? i know they probably have a license but what license? Sect 1, sect 5? They don’t apply as the guns are deacs. also I believe the offence is the selling so it’s the seller that’s breaking the law and that must be regardless of whatever licence the dealers have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) If they are defective deacts whatever the phrase was they presumably revert back to their original clasification prior to deactivation and hence dealers with the appropriate licence can buy them and do further work or sell them out-side of the EU. Edited November 25, 2019 by REME 245 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I’d agree but a) They are being held off a license legally so what are they classed as. My certs state they are no longer classed as a firearm so actual firearm legislation can’t apply (but I know it does). b) The offence is the individual selling a defectively deactivated firearm and I’ve not read anything to suggest selling to a dealer is acceptable (again we know this is reasonable). I wonder what would happen if every collector applied for a Sect. 5 license to hold and buy older deacs? I just see more ambiguity in an already ambiguous aspect of firearm law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 14 hours ago, Chris Hall said: So here’s a question chaps. How are the dealers buying pre EU deacts? To then sell on with a new EU cert after being re-deactivated? i know they probably have a license but what license? Sect 1, sect 5? They don’t apply as the guns are deacs. also I believe the offence is the selling so it’s the seller that’s breaking the law and that must be regardless of whatever licence the dealers have. It would be worth taking a very close look at the wording of the legislation regarding selling or transferring. It likely leaves provision for passing on to licensed dealers (sect. 1 or 5 ) for the purpose of selling or deactivation to current standard or whatever. Chances are many folk would have to go through a dealer to have them "sorted". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 That’s another thing that grinds my gears, I bought a CZ Bren deactivated to the original EU spec and then one year later they changed the spec again and said that the gun was now defective. It’s the EU that’s defective, not my Bren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Chris Hall said: That’s another thing that grinds my gears, I bought a CZ Bren deactivated to the original EU spec and then one year later they changed the spec again and said that the gun was now defective. It’s the EU that’s defective, not my Bren. I very much agree with your last sentence... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 9:13 PM, Mk3iain said: To ensure things keep on running without a hitch the The Great Repeal act transfers all current EU regulation into UK law. It is afterwards that they will be reviewed and changed as required. The idea is that so much is relative to EU law in the day to day running of the country it is necessary to continue as is and go through the huge amount of regulation at our leasure..... It is going to take a wee while ! EU regulations are already UK law - they wouldn't be legally enforceable otherwise. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, andym said: EU regulations are already UK law - they wouldn't be legally enforceable otherwise. Andy Fraid not Andy, EU laws need to be enacted by national governments but EU regulations are immediately applicable to countries within EU. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 11 hours ago, Mk3iain said: Fraid not Andy, EU laws need to be enacted by national governments but EU regulations are immediately applicable to countries within EU. Iain Are we getting confused by semantics? There are no EU "laws" - are we talking directives or regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 No semantics. I suppose to be as correct as I can then its directives and regulations. Anyway, regulations will have to be accepted into national law to prevent a black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Agreed - thanks Iain! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 The argument I had with my local Plod sometime back was, 'You say I can't have them. Why? Regrdless of your directives and guidelines the Law says they are not firearms. As all my de acs are Proof House marked, well what are your qualifications to judge? The only ones who are legally and entiltiled to decide are the Proof Masters, so where is thier report! I got mine back after that. Though give them thier due, the Coppers involved who had to actuallly take them away were very embarrased. Those who remeber will also note , nothing wa ssaud about my real ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 As others have mentioned, getting back to the basics...... A deactivated firearm to whatever specification was applicable at the time of deactivation as certificated on the Proof House Certificate is in law no longer a firearm....it ceased to be so at the time of deactivation as the Proof House Certificate confirms....... Therefore, as far as I'm concerned my 1910-dated SMLE is in the same category as a garden spade, sledgehammer, or a food processor, etc, and no more or less dangerous......... You could argue that the shoes you wear were once part of a cow......or the car you scrapped years ago now forming part of the cutlery set you eat with.....same with my SMLE. It was once a firearm, but once deactivated to standards in force at the time and certificated as such, it ceased to be a firearm and is now simply an object............the key thing here is not the former firearm, rather the Proof House certificate....... The primary difficulty in enforcing any new law is that you generally need something to start with...... As things currently stand, there is absolutely no database in the UK of who owns what......sure, Proof Houses probably retained records of everything they have deactivated over many, many years but from there the ownership trail very much goes cold.....simply relying on the goodwill of law abiding individuals to declare any ownership would be an absolutely pointless exercise doomed to failure aside from requiring a vast, complicated administrative infrastructure to process such....... As a former long-serving copper, I see no reason to nowadays to interrupt my enjoyable retirement with yet more utter EU crap.......I'm off to polish my SMLE........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) Though to be pedantic, and the Law is , part of it's joy. If you were to use said spade in a manner that convinced somone, during the course of crime that it was a firearm. You would be charged with aggrivating circumstances. The way I was taught it, if you want to aggrivate an offence, take the W.I.F.E. Weapon, Imitation firearm, Firearm, Explosive. Bear in mind! The law was altered so that if you have a toy gun , it must be brightly coloured, unless you have an Exemption under the Violent Crime Reduction Act. , I won't comment any more on that . 🤢 Last one out, turn off the light, we don't want to warm up the atmosphere. Edited December 5, 2019 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 To be fair, if I take my Wife anywhere it aggravates things too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) Steven Kendrick of the DGCA has sent round the following email: “So in case you hadn't heard, as of Thursday, transactions involvingdeactivated firearms have to be notified to the Home Office. (The HomeOffice is the "national authority" for this purpose, so it's the whole ofthe UK).The definition is any firearm deactivated to the current spec, acquiredsince 14 September, 2018. The reason for the latter date is that the HomeOffice was supposed to implement these regulations by that date, but they didn't because of the whole Brexit mess. So in essence, it's retroactive to that date.Also, possession of any current spec deac has to be notified to the HomeOffice by 14 March, 2021. Failure to comply is subject to a fine of up to£200.As far as older spec deacs, nothing changes. You still can't transfer them unless they're "upgraded" to the current spec. There is a rumour going around that when the UK leaves the EU then this restriction will be lifted, but that's wrong, because clause 61 of the The Law Enforcement and Security (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 replaces the words: "the EU" with: "the United Kingdom" in section 128 of the Policing and Crime Act, so nothing will change.The forms are available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/circular-0102019-firearms-regulations-2019-and-the-firearms-amendment-no2-rules-2019They're very basic: name, address, details of firearm and you send it to the email address on the form.You might think this is stupid, but bear in mind deacs are now in Category C of the EFD. Originally there was talk of requiring all transfers to go through RFDs, which would have been much worse than this. What is stupid is that it doesn't make much sense if the UK leaves the EU, but obviously they want to remain consistent with the EU. Which raises the question of what the point of Brexit is, but that's a much bigger can of worms!”. Edited December 10, 2019 by Enfield1940 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Link above has hyperlinked a little short. Try here instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 As mentioned, the good news is "Firearms which were deactivated prior to 8 April 2016 are not covered by these provisions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 What’s this in the address??? Deactivated Firearms Notification Home Office Serious Violence Unit 5th Floor, Fry Building 2 Marsham Street London SW1P 4DF I feel guilty and I’ve not been naughty!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I'm guessing the Mindfulness Unit wasn't very interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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