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talltom

New Deact legislation

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Not very good in my opinion. It states that you should inform the appropriate national authority but who is that, I cant see an address, email or otherwise. I assume that this is likely to be the local plod, which means the next step would be to licence all deacts, I wonder why they didn't do that in the first place.

This will not solve the perceived problem as only the law abiding will comply.

 

Jon

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It refers to 'A deactivated firearm' and makes no reference to New spec, Old spec etc which is very relevant when it comes to selling them at present.

It appears as I read it that after the 12th of December. as long as the 'Authorities' are notified then any deactivated Firearm can be bought / sold. ? (Who knows, as usual you find these things out by chance and nothing is properly explained) 

Edited by Fox Bradley

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There is no getting around the change of spec, that was placed into UK law by TM when she was HS.  Holders of old spec deacts have until sometime in 2022 to notify the 'authority' that they hold them.   

All  changes of ownership must be with new spec deacts, with new penalties coming into force from Dec 12.  If I remember correctly (I may be wrong) you are not allowed to do work on your own property to bring them up to the new spec and submit for re-proofing. 

It has been suggested that the limited number of places which are authorised to do the work will create a backlog of some 20-30 years to do them all, as well as another backlog within the proof house.  Having learnt a great deal from the expensive pistol surrender, they are working quietly towards a mass 'voluntary' scrappage scheme, without compensation.

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I still own my pistols. The offence is pocession, so on the form I deleted the part about transeferring ownership. The law says I can own them, just not pocess them.

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The very last sentence of the explanatory notes is quite telling.....

Given that most constabulary's struggle to stay on top of the firearms licensing issue (if you hold a shotgun or FAC you'll be more than well aware of the issues) then what is going to be brought in between now and March 2021 is anyones guess...

 

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This is a nanny state gone mad!!!

I seem to recall that legally, a de-activated gun is no longer a firearm - just had a look at the CPS guidance notes on firearms offences https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms, which defines a firearm as follows "A firearm is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged". By definition, it is not possible to actually fire anything from a de-activated gun, whatever the spec, so it is no longer a firearm and therefore this new legislation would appear not to apply. Confused? I certainly am!!

Any legal minds out there who could give an opinion on this?

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I now don't have any de-ac firearms but I do think that the new laws will be unenforceable.

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The law states A De-Activated firearm is NOT a Firearm'. Though in my case the local Plod had to have it rammed down thier throat before they finally accepted they had no right to take mine off me and gave them back. 

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9 hours ago, mike30841 said:

This is a nanny state gone mad!!!

I seem to recall that legally, a de-activated gun is no longer a firearm - just had a look at the CPS guidance notes on firearms offences https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms, which defines a firearm as follows "A firearm is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged". By definition, it is not possible to actually fire anything from a de-activated gun, whatever the spec, so it is no longer a firearm and therefore this new legislation would appear not to apply. Confused? I certainly am!!

Any legal minds out there who could give an opinion on this?

The whole driver behind this is the concern is that a de-act can be reactivated..... this was also the driver behind the revised de-act standard brought in by the EU reg....

Doesnt seem to take into account what has been physically been done to the weapon - again legislators passing judgement on things they have little or no understanding of....or the concept of the practicalities of what is going to be required in the aftermath....

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Bureaucrats love working in circles to cause confusion and to keep their jobs. Just look at Brexit . I no longer have deacts only replicas  but the law on them is a little stupid to say the least. Its hard enough keeping up with  there  stupid decisions on our hobby. I understand that if you belong to a history group eg  MVT then the replicas dont need to be painted a bright colour  is this correct

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No one wants to be the appropriate authority! Until they charge a fee for the transfer and therefor make money.

 

i can’t make my mind up whether this legislation refers to just transfers or registering regardless of if you intend to transfer. 

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I should think this will go through Firearms licensing the same way Live weapons are transferred as this system is set up tried and tested.

The 'Authority' will be Local County Firearms office.

Again this will only effect the law abiding collector who registers there de-ac's  ! 

Rob.....…...………….rnixartillery

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Apparently the ACPO is fighting it as they haven’t got the staff or time. If it’s pushed their way they will demand a charge is made for such recording action. And it won’t be cheap!!!

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I may have a de-activated firearm coming my way, I will not dance to this new tune, I will do nothing....

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4 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

i can’t make my mind up whether this legislation refers to just transfers or registering regardless of if you intend to transfer. 

Both. The additional sting in the tale is that it prevents the owner of a pre-2018 spec gun quietly ignoring the currently unenforceable prohibition on transferring a so-called ‘defectively deactivated’ gun. Once you’ve registered it, then it’s locked to you unless you get it re-done to the current spec.

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Mentioned in an article on The Register website:

UK Home Office: We will register thousands of deactivated firearms with no database
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/08/home_office_deactivated_weapons_email_address/

 

Someone also commented on it on the Army Rumour Service website:

"The apparent UK current response is to go through the motions of obeying the letter of the EU law while ignoring the intent. Under new EU law, owners of deactivated firearms must "notify" the government of the status of deactivated firearms. In the UK you apparently will send an email containing the particulars to an address the UK government will set up. Nobody will apparently be reading the emails, but the government has been "notified", so the letter of the EU law has been obeyed. If there is ever a need to refer to any of these emails someone can in theory do a automatic search through the received email on the server. Job done.

What happens in future will apparently depend on if and when the UK leaves the EU, and to what extent the UK will still be subject to EU law after that. I also suppose that whether there is a change of government after the upcoming election will also be a factor in that. So far though there has been minimal IT investment involved in actually implementing anything for any sort of actual effective registration".

 

PS. There is also a theory doing the rounds that the SI only technically covers deacts done to the EU spec, not those done before. Having re-read it, it does only seem to explicitly refer to deacts done "in accordance with" the EU regulation - not every deact. Fingers crossed.

 

 

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thats interesting!. So if all the owners were t send in letters rather than e-mail. the records would end up in a warehouse and no one would look at them? 

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11 hours ago, welshbayonetww2 said:

thats interesting!. So if all the owners were t send in letters rather than e-mail. the records would end up in a warehouse and no one would look at them? 

AH you climate wrecking babarian! Think of all the poor trees ripped up to make the paper, and the pollution pumped out by power station to operate the Royal Mail 'Green Vans' the depletion of rare earths and all the mining pollution that occured to get them.. and the traffic congestion to ... Send A Letter?:  Then all the landfill to get rid of them.  The land the warehouse sits on could be used to site a wind farm, or Solar Cells or just have pretty flowers on through Re Wilding.

Makes about as much sense as the rest of it.

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14 minutes ago, MartinN said:

Has anyone got this email address?

I think it is being published after the election.

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 4:43 AM, Tony B said:

Hang on. Dosen't all EU regulation automatically lapse when we leave?

My understanding is that EU legislation is transposed into national law.  So the EU agrees a directive and then gives national governments a certain amount to time to make it law in their country.  So, no!  EU legislation doesn't lapse when we leave, we actually have to go through the process of recinding these laws and there are a lot of them.  

Happy to be corrected, but that's what I have been taught on H&S law.

Cheers,

Julian

 

 

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